jazakAllah khairun bro…
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif
Pakistan Zindabad!
Try to follow the fllowing:
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Wahab may be one of the name of Allah but in your case ‘Wahab’ refers to the TEACHINGS of one abdul wahab that is of the INSULTING VARIETY.
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Did Anyone ask or put you in charge to tell others, to use your own words, “not to innovate things”?
Nobody!
So, do the world a favour and SHUT UP! You are not WORTHY of explaining anything to anybody. Pls tell me that you understand this.
Imagine this folks - people of Saudia and followers of Ibn Timmiyya, Hanbal and abdul wahab explaining Humanity to the world. This is also an insult on top of what they have made of islam!
what is this crap people saying about wahabi sunni muslims...they are better muslims by the way,they are strictly against any shirk practices such as going to peer,fakeeer baba's, aur giving out food on someone's janaaza's.
I think they r on the right path,and im very much impressed by their believes. In namaaz, we say "iya ka na budu,va iya ka nastaeem"...and by doing all other things like going to baba's and asking them to help,we prove ourselves to be hypocrates,but wahabi's don't do that,they STRICTLY FOLLOW THE SUNNAT!
i have wahabi friends so I KNOW WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT.
what wahabi's r u guys talking about here?
**Parde ilm hazaar kitaaba...kaddee apnai aap nu parya naee.." **BULLEY SHAH
He didn’t teach nothing new but only taught what was in Sahi Bukhari and sahi Muslim and other Ahadeeth books. He did not like people worshiping trees and graves and paying homage to peers and fakeers. He taught people to pray ONLY to one God, ALLAH. He taught to ask ONLY ALLAH for help not some saint as people were doing at that time and still do in sub-continent.
If you read his books, there is nothing new or contradictory to what is already in Ahadeeth books.
Now you might copy&paste some self-created lies from anti-islamic sites about his books and his teachings which is only possible thing you can do. So take your best shot.
Generally, I tend to find that any muslims these days who don't follow any particular madhab get labelled as wahabis/salafis (I've seen the two terms used interchangeably).
It is an incredibly stupid label, implying that all covered by the label have the same beliefs, and that they are all extremists. In reality, scholars blanketed by the label "wahabi" tend to have many different, and strongly opposing, views.
For instance, Sheikh Yousaf Al-Qaradawi, an extremely widely followed scholar labelled as a "wahabi", rules that music is permissible, whereas Sheikh ibn Baz, another popular scholar also labelled as "wahabi" rules against music. They have similarly opposing views regarding mingling of men and women.
The term wahabi has these days come to be a catch-all phrase to decribe any muslim who does not adhere solely to one madhab.
LOL, all those people who are "not Wahabi" are getting angry about faceup and me telling the truth about Wahabis.
Gee, I wonder why.
And why are you people jumping up and down and accusing me of trying to "split" the Ummah? How can my words on a forum "split" the Ummah? The only one creating differences in the Ummah are wahabis who have declared everyone but themse4lves kafir!
Do you not think it splits the ummah when Wahabi terorists target and kill shias, or other sects? Or like every other loyal wahabi, you don't consider shias to be part of the ummah?
The facts can speak for themselves, wahabis are responsible for spreading hatred in the hearts of muslims everywhere by telling them lies about their culture and centuries old traditions. Who in their right mind would destroy their own cluture heritage by destroying statues? Only idiotic Wahabi inspired Taliban. Wahabism is like a cancer that is spreading across the Muslim world. It inspires hatred and intolerance about peopel that ar4e even remotely different then wahabis. Well, guess what, majority of muslims do not like being force fed nonsesne by wahabis. Every muslim culture has certian different ways of followign Islam based on their heritage. No wahabi or salafi can change that. All you faantic osama bin laden wannabes can take your wahabism and long tradition of suicide bombign and shove it! Normal Muslims want nothing to do with nutcases anymore. Just like how quickly wahabis were kicked out of Afgahnistan by the Afghans, same will inshallah happen acrosss all the Muslim lands very soon. Since wahabis don't like to listen to logic and reason, daisy cutters seem to be teh best option in eradicating their disease filled lies.
Bottom line is that wahabism is a sick cult that needs to be eradicated from the heart of the Muslim world for REAL peaceful, tolerant, and devoted Muslims to prosper without the constant threat of terrorism.
Faraz Mir- I dont understand, you seemed to pretty much follow a logical sequence of thoughts but now you’re posting empty posts. I’m just surprised.
I dont think any of us in any way implied that spreading hatred, calling others kafir, and killing shias sunnis is a noble thing, why do you think so?
I’m very ignorant of the wahabis and my only experience has been first hand with some friends at school and at the mosque- and I’d love to find out more about these hate mongers if you could find a decent source and back up for your claims. You really dont understand that you’re doing the same thing here? You’re the one calling others kafir(or a disease, or whatever) and not the other way around- Does this mean you’re a wahabi?
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
[This message has been edited by Ace (edited April 11, 2002).]
Faraz mir, looks like some "wahabi" stoped you from doing something which was not in prescribed as way of worship in books of SUNNAH and Quran and you are all mad at him and now your hate is oozing out.
You are speaking out of hate and false info fed to you by the "self-declared" peer and fakeers who do not like "wahabis" either because they want to shut their way of business and deceiving people for their own personal goals. You are murshad of hate and lies and now you come here talking about people you don't even know about like that just makes you look more ill/dis/mis informed about following QURAN and SUNNAH of a prophet than following information about other people and Islam without investigating about it.
I suggest you go and buy some Ahadeeth books such as Sahi bukhari and Muslim and read them. And then, buy books of Abdul Wahab and Ibn Tehmiyaa and see for your self if any contradictions exist. I asure you that you will not find ANY, because Abdul Wahabs teachings and reforms(at his time people of arabia were worshiping trees and graves and were doing other things which were not part of SUNNAH nor QURANIc teachings... and today people of brailviyaat are doing that stuff in pakistan) were based on sahi ahadeeth books.
Coming here with little or no knowledge and thinking you can teach everyone about a group of people that tell others not to create new things in islam as way of worship and follow Quran and Sunnah of Prophet(pbuh) is kind of childish and very irresponsible like. I hope you understand and come to your senses. If you stand on facts, please post them rather than talking disinformation from anti-islamic sites and posting them as you will. What do I mean by facts? Facts from Abdul wahabs books and tell us what did he or "wahabis" do that is unislamic?
[This message has been edited by Serial Guppy (edited April 11, 2002).]
Some of the logic evident here is either CIA or you guys are seriously fouled up! Faraz Mir does not seem to expound that he thinks those bad actions are noble! Are Wahabbis derived from some secret source to discredit sincere, conservative Islam? Deception and falsity are rampant, like never before. Wake up!
[This message has been edited by TOMASSO (edited April 11, 2002).]
Interesting.. you start with a ** Shia website !!! **
Tum log kya baaz nahin aaogay ???
Yes EXACTLY ** WHAT ** are those ** views ** ??? As I said in my post, I’ve this book Kitaab At-Tauhid, by Imam Muhammad ibn 'Abdul Wahhab (rah.) - Please ** quote from HIS book ** and tell me what’s so ** different ** about his beliefs??
Do the readers notice that these people ** (basically the Shias) ** shout at the top of their lungs about how evil the Wahhabis are, but ** NEVER * define * WHAT ** the ** Wahhabis ** are !!!
You see this person has ** evaded defining Wahhabism ** in a very ** subtle and sinister ** manner !!!
All that he said is that Muhammad ibn 'Abdul Wahhab presented his own views. I had asked in the original post to ** define ** Wahhabism, and if needed, ** quote ** from the ** book/s ** written by Muhammad ibn 'Abdul Wahhab.
Obviously, this point was very ** slyly ** avoided - which is a ** proof ** that there is ** NO SUCH THING ** as “Wahhabism”, but is actually an ** “IMAGINARY” ** group . This Imaginary group is often referred to by the ** Heretics ** to divide the Muslims, and avoid facing the truth about their heretical beliefs.
So, basically, this is how the ** Shia priests explain their heretical beliefs: YOU MUST BE A WAHHABI !!! O my God, How did you dare question our beliefs ?? **
You ** still DIDN’T ** define “Wahhabism”. Since, the person had no definition of “Wahhabism”, he tried to fool the readers in a ** subtle ** manner , that even though they don’t claim to be Wahhabis, they really are Wahhabis !!!
First of all you don’t define “Wahhabism”, can’t tell how they are different from mainstream Muslims, and then say that they are Wahhabis, even though they claim they are not Wahhabis !!!
** What kind of absurd logic is this??? **
You still ** DIDN’T Define ** Wahhabism.
So, if anyone has a lot of knowledge of Islam is a Wahhabi??? Another absurd logic.
By that definition,** Khomeini was a HUMONGOUS Wahhabi !!! **
Readers, please keep an eye on the ** subtle, sly and sinister ** tactics used by the Shias to divide the mainstream Muslims.
It is such an ** immature statement **, even if it didn’t concern the “Wahhabis”.
First of all, Does ** everyone ** who is a “Wahhabi”, have a ** lot of knowledge **about Islam?
What if a “Wahhabi” does not have a lot of knowledge of Islam ? Does he, then ** become a non-Wahhabi ? **
And, what if a ** Shia ** has a ** lot of knowledge ** about Islam ? Does the ** Shia then become a “Wahhabi” ** just because he has a lot of knowledge about Islam??
And, what you made is just a ** SUBJECTIVE statement, ** which ** CANNOT ** be ** proven or verified. ** It only shows the ** intensity ** of ** bigotry and hatred ** the Shias have for the mainstream Muslims.
I’d have expected a ** Hindu ** to make such arguments.
I see a lot of similarities in the way the Kafirs attack Islam, and the way Shias attack mainstream Islam. ( Does it prove a link?? )
Another ** very immature ** argument. What if a “Wahhabi” does not stick his nose in every affair ? Does he become a non-Wahhabi ??
And what if a Shia sticks his nose in every affair? Does he become a “Wahhabi” then???
Very ** immature and subjective ** - cannot be proven or verified.
This argument tends to make the assumption, that all ** “Wahhabis” are by nature the same **, there are no variations in the temperaments of the “Wahhabis” (like some may be introvert, some be extrovert etc).
Still, you ** HAVE NOT Defined ** “Wahhabism” .
Readers, please take note and see the truth of the people of this sect for yourself !!!
Proof? How can I verify that?
And, again, the same logic: What if a “Wahhabi” not do that ? Does it make him a “non-Wahhabi” ?
And what if a Shia does that? Does it make him a “Wahhabi” ?
Sorry, you ** STILL DIDN’T ** “Wahhabism” - which only ** proves ** that “Wahhabism” is an ** imaginary sect ** that is used as a ** SCAPEGOAT by the Shias ** to stick to their heretic beliefs and fool and disunite the mainstream Muslims.
Only shows the ** intensity ** of ** hatred and bigotry ** this person has.
I mean if a ** Hindu ** makes such a lousy argument, it shouldn’t be a surprise. But, why do the ** Shias ** attack mainstream Islam, almost the same way the ** Kafirs ** attack Islam ??
Again, what Proof do you have ? How can I verify that?
It’s a very ** subjective ** statement and very ** subtle ** trick to divide the mainstream Muslims.
You ** STILL DIDN’T Define ** “Wahhabism”.
Very ** judgemental and venemous. **
Proof? How can I verify that?
However, looking at the level and intensity of ** hatred ** this person is showing, it is very safe to conclude that ** heretic sects have little interest in Muslim brotherhood **, rather they spread lies and spin fairy tales to divide the mainstream Muslims.
You talk about Barelvis? Some of the ** Barelvis can be MORE anti-Shia ** than the “Wahhabis” .
So, does that make the Barelivis “Wahhabis” too?
Yes, Please, ** EXACTLY WHAT ** is that the “Wahhabis” ** BELIEVE ** in that is ** different ** ?
You ** STILL DIDN’T Define ** “Wahhabism” !!!
Readers, ** Please note !!! ** This person again indicates that the ** beliefs of the “Wahhabis” are different **, and continues to bash them, ** BUT very carefuly, consciously and slyly AVOIDS ** telling us just exactly ** WHAT THEY ARE ** !!!
In a very conscious, subtle and sinister manner, he tries to divide the “Wahhabis”. Most probably, ** he knows ** they are not different from mainstream Muslims, but the level of ** bigotry ** is such that he still tries to divide the mainstream Muslims on imaginary lines. !!!
It again ** PROVES ** that there is ** NO SUCH THING ** as a “Wahhabi” but that it is a ** Shia plot ** to ** divide ** the ** mainstream Muslims. **. !!!
C’mon, tell us, ** JUST WHAT ARE THEIR ** beliefs and how they are different from the beliefs of mainstream Muslims?
Very ** untrue, ** and ** misleading. **
Again very ** subjective **, and cannot be proven or verified.
Filled with ** bigotry and venom. **
Creating ** artificial hysteria **. Sounds more like an ** anti-Islamic article from a Western media source !!! ** ( Again I notice some similarities between the attitude of Shias and the Kafirs - Does it prove a link btw?? Or ** overlapping loyalty?? ** )
In any case, you ** STILL DIDN’T Define ** “Wahhabism” !!!
Here, you ** ACCEPT THAT ** they are very logical !!!
So, when you are ** UNABLE to PROVE your HERETICAL beliefs, you SCAPEGOAT ** them, and then scream at the top of your lungs : ** YOU MUST BE A “WAHHABI” !!! ** and avoid explaining your heretical beliefs.
But, that still doesn’t justify your heretical beliefs !!
And, just because , as per your own admission, they are ** very logical **, you have ** NO WAY TO REFUTE ** them, so you just ** label them and scapegoat them ** and try to ** exploit ** the ** unsuspecting and tolerant ** nature of mainstream Muslims to divide them in a very ** sinister, sly and subtle ** manner.
Readers please make a note !
** You claim they are logical **, but do ** NOT define ** what they are, and then with no ** basis or logical explaination ** claim they are wrong , all ** without telling ** us just ** WHAT ** is so ** bad ** about their ** beliefs **. This ** ONLY PROVES ** that there is ** NO SUCH THING ** as a “Wahhabi” and that it is a ** plot ** of the minority ** heretics ** to ** divide ** the mainstream Muslims.
In any case, you ** STILL DIDN’T Define ** “Wahhabism” !!!
** 100% UNTRUE , FALSE, AND A BIG FAT SINISTER LIE to divide the mainstream Muslims. **
I ** CHALLENGE ** you to ** PROVE ** it. ** QUOTE ** from the ** “WAHHABI” BOOKS/ WEBSITES ** etc .
Or else, ** ACCEPT THAT YOU ARE BLATANTLY LYING, ** and trying to ** divide the mainstream Muslims ** in a very ** subtle and vicious ** manner.
Very ** subjective, immature, and full of venom. **
You ** STILL DIDN’T Define ** “Wahhabism”.!!!
** 100% UNTRUE , FALSE, AND A BIG FAT SINISTER LIE to divide the mainstream Muslims. **
I again ** CHALLENGE ** you to ** PROVE ** it.
You ** STILL DIDN’T Define ** “Wahhabism”.!!!
Why ?? ** Why ** don’t you tell them what’s so ** “evil” about their beliefs ** ??
The ** Truth is very Apparent ** eh? And the ** ONLY WAY ** to deny the truth when it is apparent is to ** LIE ** about it, and ** avoid or CONCEAL ** it or apply other nasty techniques.
Btw, ** KAFIR ** means ** "someone who CONCEALS " **.
** ONLY PROVES ** that there is ** NO SUCH THING ** as “Wahhabism”
According to the Holy Qur’an that the ** disbelievers KNOW in their hearts that they are wrong and that Islam is the true religion ** !!!
(Qur’an experts please provide with references . Thanks
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)
In any case, you ** STILL DIDN’T Define ** “Wahhabism” . !!!
This is the ** same logic ** that the ** Arab Pagans ** used to tell others about the ** Holy Prophet (S) ** !!!
Are you so ** INSECURE and afraid ** that your ** own falsehood ** will be exposed ??? What other reason could there be?
Do you see a link there ? (between the heretics and Kafirs ? )
Ofcourse, when the ** truth is EVIDENT AND APPARENT **, what other way do you have to deny it except to ** lie ** against it, or to avoid it or ** conceal ** it or apply other nasty techniques.
In any case, you ** STILL DIDN’T Define ** “Wahhabism”.
**
Why ?? Doesn’t it ** indicate the TRUTH ** about this movement, that ** INSPITE ** of all the ** VICIOUS LIES AND PROPAGANDA **, it still is ** growing rapidly ** ???
Readers , please notice.. The ** Arab Pagans ** also had the ** SAME FEARS ** about Islam, because ** INSPITE ** of all the ** vicious lies, propaganda and persecution **, it was ** growing ** at an ** alarming rate ** !!!
Does it ** clearly show ** who is right and who is wrong ??
If this “evil Wahhabi” group is growing at such an alarming rate, and you really hate the “Wahhabis” so much so that you are ready to viciously lie about them, then why ** DON’T ** you ** JUST EXPOSE AND DEFINE ** their ** beliefs ** to counter them??
Instead you are only saying they are so bad, ** without ** actually telling ** WHAT ** is so bad about them !!!
You ** STILL DIDN’T Define ** “Wahhabism” !!!
O Brothers and Sisters in Islam, Know that the ** TRUTH is ALWAYS ** persecuted, and that people ** ALWAYS ** spread ** VICIOUS LIES ** about the Truth. This is the ** ACID TEST ** of the ** TRUTH **.
For example, take the case of the ** Prophets (a.s) ** - ** Noah, Abraham, Lot, John (Yahya), Moses, Jesus (a.s - peace be on them all ** and also our ** Holy Prophet Muhammad (S) ** - the ** disbelievers ** SPREAD VICIOUS LIES ** about them !!!
Make up your mind people !!! and read this verse of the Holy Qur’an:
Let there be NO COMPULSION in Religion,
For ** Truth Standsout DISTINCT ** from ** Error ** !!! (Holy Qur’an 2:256)
Now, the decision is upto you, and Guidance is ONLY from Allah (SWT).
May Allah (SWT) Guide me and my Muslim brothers and sisters. Aameen.
P.S - ** (Faraz) ** - I ** again ** repeat:
** You STILL DIDN’T Define "Wahhabism " **
[This message has been edited by Khoon-e-Shaheed (edited April 11, 2002).]
Asthugfurillah!!
Brother just wanted to point one thing out, it’s kinda impossible for ‘wahabis’( as you like to call them) to destroy ahlus sunnah wal jamaa’ when they have the same aqeedah
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
May Allah guide you. Ameen.
I mean if a Hindu makes such a lousy argument, it shouldn't be a surprise. But, why do the Shias attack mainstream Islam, almost the same way the Kafirs attack Islam ?? >>
Very good point "khone shaheed," over the years I have observed the same thing.
Defining "wahabism" is impossible for them. They should tell us what do "wahabis" do that is so unislamic(not according to Quran or Sunnah) that we all should hate "them" and stay away from "them," and that "they" might quote some sahi ahadeeths or Quranic verse when we are worshiping graves and giving lip service to our local peers?
Appki, don't call "faceup" a brother, he is a lousy hindu/? trying to stir hatred against mainstream islam. (read first part of my reply)
[This message has been edited by Serial Guppy (edited April 11, 2002).]
The Messenger of Allah(saws) said: 'You shall not enter paradise until you believe, and you shall not believe until you love one another. Shall i not inform you of something, if you were to act upon it, you will indeed achieve mutual love for one another? Spread the greeting amongst yourselves'
Muslim 1/74 and others
No name calling and insulting.
[This message has been edited by Faraz Mir (edited April 11, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by Sentinel (edited April 12, 2002).]
Those who consider Abdul Wahab an "Islamic scholar" and follow his bizare teachings of hatred and intolerance and disrespect for the world are Wahabis. Doesn't get simpler then that.
Did you know this nutcase wanted to destroy the Prophets(pbuh) tomb?
[quote]
Originally posted by Faraz Mir:
Those who consider Abdul Wahab an "Islamic scholar" and follow ** his bizare teachings ** of hatred and intolerance and disrespect for the world are Wahabis.
[/quote]
Yes, ** PLEASE, *, just * EXACTLY WHAT ** are his "bizarre" teachings ???
You ** STILL DIDN'T Define ** "Wahhabism".
[quote]
Did you know this nutcase wanted to destroy the Prophets(pbuh) tomb?
[/quote]
Another fairy tale.
Proof please. Proof. Proof . Proof.
Khoon-I-Shaheed, I, an "infidel", thought that kufr meant pagan. The pagans could not be concealing that which they did not know. Mohammed would have been just like them, if not for being chosen, no? It seems Farid has the goods on some of these Wahabbi terrorists and hates them for it. Man, if you have got internecine friction between sects on that level, the parallel to the split in Christianity is apparent.
[quote]
Originally posted by Faraz Mir:
Death to Wahabis!
[/quote]
I need not comment.
[quote]
many muslim countries, including Paksitan, where 700 shia doctors were killed over the last year.
[/quote]
Proof those killers were "Wahhabis" ??
Also, ** Mainstream Muslims (i.e. the Sunnis) are BRUTALLY persecuted in Iran by the HERETIC SHIITES. ** Many have been ** KILLED and JAILED ** for no crime.
The ** Iranian capital, Tehran, ** a city of about ** 12 MILLION ** people, has about ** 40 CHRISTIAN CHURCHES *, but * NOT A SINGLE SUNNI MOSQUE ** (i.e Mainstream Muslim Mosque) !!!!
Can you please ** name ONE CAPITAL CITY of the World ** that does ** NOT have ** a ** Sunni Mosque EXCEPT Tehran ** ????
Mainstream Muslims were before permitted by the Heretic Shiite government to build a Sunni Mosque in Iran, but later on, when the heretic Shiite government got stronger, they ** back stabbed the mainstream Muslims **, and confiscated the funds and arrested the mainstream Muslims. !!!
In the 21st Century, can you please ** name ONE COUNTRY ** that ** PREVENTS ** its citizens from ** KEEPING names ** like ** Umar, Abu Bakr, 'Aishah, Hafsah ** etc ** EXCEPT IRAN ** ????
So, by your definition, ** Khomeini and other Shias are HUMONGOUS "WAHHABIS" !!! **
Hey, Khoon, could you answer my question about kufr, at least?
[This message has been edited by TOMASSO (edited April 11, 2002).]
Assalam-o-alikum ppl...
interesting GUPSHUP going on in here..
keep it up.. but i just want to ask ALL of you a simple Qeustion..
1: ALLAH is 1
2: Prophet Muhammad ( last and final) is also 1 ( with very clear teachings and practical implementation of Quran)
3: Kaa'ba is 1
4 : Quran is 1 ( no idversions do diffrent teachings )
then why do we have diffrent sects, cant we stick on to 1 Quran , 1 Allah, 1 Prophet ???
No doubt there has been many gr8 , knowledgeable ppls, ulemas , walis etc. BUT do you rate them even more than teachings of PROPHET MUHAMMAD(SAW) teachings and his (SAW) idealogy ?
Can u compare any ulema, any wali, any buzurg , any mulvi, any sufi, any person with Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and even to 4 kaliphs of ISLAM ?? can u ???
If u cannot, then plz do not come up with diffrent idealogies abt, diffrent teachings of ulemas ??
Plz think and answer.. Thanks... for ur patience..
Dont think "you can" know "you can"
.::. ¢¼ ﷲ ﻼﺃ ﷲﺃ ﻶ ¢¼ .::.