as we all know that Muslim and Pakistani identity is threatened for all immigrants who are living in countries including USA, Canada and UK & other western countries.
what are some of the concrete ways in which we can defend our back grounds and not allow defamation, dehumanization and spread hatred for us, by the government and prejudiced individuals?
Re: Denfending Muslims and Pakistani Identity in USA, Canada and UK & other countries
.............we can defend our back grounds and not allow defamation,....
Good question Dush!
It is about time Pakistanis looked deep down in their selves and figured this out. There are few things to consider as discussed below:
The West relates Muslim identity much more to Arabs and Middle East. It is a long discussion on why the West does it and that's besides the point.
Pakistanis will be safe as long as they don't acquire Arab style $tupid talk in the mosques, Arab Hijab, anti-Semitism, and other Middle Eastern political/religious diseases.
The best thing for Pakistanis is that they should separate from Arab mosques and other shenanigans. We have nothing to do with Palestinian cancer. That is something between Arabs, Israel, and US. Pakistanis should not touch it even with 10 foot pole. This will be just like Arab treat Kashmiri issue (by making buddy buddy with Bharat).
Re: Denfending Muslims and Pakistani Identity in USA, Canada and UK & other countries
It is about time Pakistanis looked deep down in their selves and figured this out. There are few things to consider as discussed below:
The West relates Muslim identity much more to Arabs and Middle East. It is a long discussion on why the West does it and that's besides the point.
Pakistanis will be safe as long as they don't acquire Arab style $tupid talk in the mosques, Arab Hijab, anti-Semitism, and other Middle Eastern political/religious diseases.
The best thing for Pakistanis is that they should separate from Arab mosques and other shenanigans. We have nothing to do with Palestinian cancer. That is something between Arabs, Israel, and US. Pakistanis should not touch it even with 10 foot pole. This will be just like Arab treat Kashmiri issue (by making buddy buddy with Bharat).
You seem to be more in opposition to "Arabs" than commenting upon a good general question posed by Dushwari. Grow out of this childhood. Look at the things with more broader mind. Only one sentence you wrote in the begining (bold) makes some sense. But if I relate it to the rest of your reply, it becomes useless.
Re: Denfending Muslims and Pakistani Identity in USA, Canada and UK & other countries
Dushwari,
In response to your question I have a few points to make. Here are these.
1) We have to start thinking like (Muslims) rather than Pakistani, India, Irani, Iraqi etc.
2) We have to feel proud of what we believe in ( i.e. Islam) and show to the world its real picture. We should not feel insecure by following it and applying it in o0ur individual and collective lives. (this point needs elaboration)
3) Nobody will respect us unless we respect ourselves. And I mean by that, if we talk about our identity as Muslims, we have to first respect Islam and then and only then, others can respect us as Muslims.
4) We have to get ourselves educated to the highest level and then align ourselves with Islamic perspective of education. (a little broader concept, I can elaborate on this too).
5) We have to counter all the philosophical ideas which tend to separate the most important source of knowledge, i.e. the reveletion. We should not just follow any ideology which is solely based on logic and devoid of the devine reveletion.
I'll write more.
Re: Denfending Muslims and Pakistani Identity in USA, Canada and UK & other countries
Well! This sentence pretty much ends the debate. "Thinking" like Muslims instead of Pakistani is a typical Hojra talk by the Maulvie Ashabs and that is precisely whey Pakistani youth in UK, Canada, and US are in deep Arabist $hite.
Remember Dush sahiba is asking for protecting "identity". You probably didn't ever read the heading of this thread. **
Do you even know that Pakistan gives you means of identification such as your Passport and your "Identity" card, while Islam doesn't. **
So Islamic identity is a useless, unrealistic concept in the modern world.
In the West right now people carrying Arab IDs and their followers are in trouble. So as long as you are trying to attach your ID with Arabs, you will be in trouble as well. Hope this simple logic helps most people except off course the strict followers of Maulvi Ashabs and their Hojra-nasheen saathis (Hojra-dwelling comrades).
Re: Denfending Muslims and Pakistani Identity in USA, Canada and UK & other countries
Remember Dush sahiba is asking for protecting "identity". You probably didn't ever read the heading of this thread.
*Do you even know that Pakistan gives you means of identification such as your Passport and your "Identity" card, while Islam doesn't. *
So Islamic identity is a useless, unrealistic concept in the modern world.
In the West right now people carrying Arab IDs and their followers are in trouble. So as long as you are trying to attach your ID with Arabs, you will be in trouble as well. Hope this simple logic helps most people except off course the strict followers of Maulvi Ashabs and their Hojra-nasheen saathis (Hojra-dwelling comrades).
Another shi t t y reply from you. Are you a kindergarden student?
How can you say Islam does not give me an identity? What do you think I have talked about in my previous reply.
You are one ignorant person unaware of the concept of state in Islam. You value nationalism thats all.
Re: Defending Muslims and Pakistani Identity in USA, Canada and UK & other countries
please , meirey threads perr galat zaban istamal nahee kiya karein, aik doosrey keye lieye.
u all have the right to a difference in opinion/s, better counter each one of urs in defiant, yes, BUT PLEASE dignified way, & with grace and firm resolve to disprove the other, on factual grounds, without personalizing the issues, and make ur self wiser by not pre-judging each other, & finally getting to the heart of the matter with proclivity and eloquence, rather than mockery and mud-slinging or just plain obstinate/provocative intentions of undermining each other’s contribution. Sometimes, people are just not aware of what they are saying. No one should deny their identity and if they have a problem with that, they will work it out themselves. In discourse, the first rule is being a good listener – for after all, wisdom listens and knowledge speaks.
regards,
DUSH
Re: Defending Muslims and Pakistani Identity in USA, Canada and UK & other countries
patience my friends, wisdom.
Re: Denfending Muslims and Pakistani Identity in USA, Canada and UK & other countries
points well taken, dear.
i think like that too, but for the sake of maintaining the patriotic identity, i think it does not hurt to have a hyphenated qualifier of Pakistani-Muslim.
maybe i am wrong. but i mean well.
i cannot aggree more with the 3rd pointer u listed - we need to respect ourselves first, before others will do so to us.
kind regards,
DUSH
In response to your question I have a few points to make. Here are these.
1) We have to start thinking like (Muslims) rather than Pakistani, India, Irani, Iraqi etc.
2) We have to feel proud of what we believe in ( i.e. Islam) and show to the world its real picture. We should not feel insecure by following it and applying it in o0ur individual and collective lives. (this point needs elaboration)
3) Nobody will respect us unless we respect ourselves. And I mean by that, if we talk about our identity as Muslims, we have to first respect Islam and then and only then, others can respect us as Muslims.
4) We have to get ourselves educated to the highest level and then align ourselves with Islamic perspective of education. (a little broader concept, I can elaborate on this too).
5) We have to counter all the philosophical ideas which tend to separate the most important source of knowledge, i.e. the reveletion. We should not just follow any ideology which is solely based on logic and devoid of the devine reveletion.
I'll write more.
Re: Defending Muslims and Pakistani Identity in USA, Canada and UK & other countries
First of all, we need to find the haters. Who hates Islam? Who is out there to discriminate us? Why? on what basis?
What I believe is that the American government is Islamophobic, not the people. If we put aside the American policies and the current state of world, we'll see that the American people not necessarily hate Islam or Muslims. They, like some Muslims, do not care to understand Islam at the first place. The most important concern they have are the suicide bombers blowing themselves up in the streets of New York. If you talk about Islamophobes, there are Muslims that fear and hate Muslims, do we call them Islamophobes?
The state of Islamophobia is with the media that completly distorted the image of Islam and Muslims by showing one-dimensional views and representation of Muslims. Why do the media go this way? Maybe to pass heavy military bugets, help their political campaigners or just to show 'War on Terror'. They pick and choose pictures that suit their pupose. Media is doing its job by selling this war as entertainment.
The question is as Muslims, what in the blue hell are we going to do about it? Sit and complain? Go out and complain? Pick and choose because none of it would work, this is because most of the Muslims, no matter how much they feel alienated, are living comfortable lives. You are not going to witness a Crackaa-head chasing you down the road to beat you up. Less than likely, and if it happens, those hate crimes are reported and criminals are put in jail.
It is non-sense on Muslims part just to think that they can difuse this unfair potrayl of Islam by public relations or by giving a lecture on Islam and its history. Like I said, Americans don't care about it. Domestically, Americans and Muslim community have lived so many years that you just can not label it as a grave problem or pandamic.
Placing and pointing fingers won't help the cause because we, as Muslims, are partially to be blamed for this mess. All we have done since 9/11 is have press conference, this is for media but in order to end and eliminate the fear among Americans, Muslims need to step up and do some charitable work. Help people, get involved, let your work and life speak for itself, rahter than words. Actions speak louder than words. There are so many division amongst ourselves that we cannot present a united front. We need get over this image of dividing and segregating Muslims on how many times they pray? How they dress and talk? Get over it, it may be possible that we may have some Islamophobia within ourselves. Let's get ourselves together as Muslims because majority of 2 billion are peace loving people, all we have to do is be united and the prejudice will end its course.
Re: Defending Muslims and Pakistani Identity in USA, Canada and UK & other countries
send this to www.aopp.org
u make some extremely great and valid points.
best,
DUSH
Re: Denfending Muslims and Pakistani Identity in USA, Canada and UK & other countries
The best thing for Pakistanis is that they should separate from Arab mosques and other shenanigans. We have nothing to do with Palestinian cancer. That is something between Arabs, Israel, and US. Pakistanis should not touch it even with 10 foot pole. This will be just like Arab treat Kashmiri issue (by making buddy buddy with Bharat).
Oyeee Ant-eeeeee,
Note the date down, I am agreeing with you here instead of slapping you down as usual. :D
Pakistanis need to become Pakistanis first. Embrace it. They are Pakistanis first, moose-limbs next. They sure as hell ain't ay-raaabs. Read your history Pakistanis and see how much you have in common with your old country called Bharat. We are auld-bharatis.
Now, here is what Pakistanis need to do:
Shabaash. :D
Re: Denfending Muslims and Pakistani Identity in USA, Canada and UK & other countries
Note the date down, I am agreeing with you here instead of slapping you down as usual. :D
Pakistanis need to become Pakistanis first. Embrace it. They are Pakistanis first, moose-limbs next. They sure as hell ain't ay-raaabs. Read your history Pakistanis and see how much you have in common with your old country called Bharat. We are auld-bharatis.
Now, here is what Pakistanis need to do:
Shabaash. :D
You sir are one certified MODERN person !
Re: Defending Muslims and Pakistani Identity in USA, Canada and UK & other countries
DUSH 
Re: Denfending Muslims and Pakistani Identity in USA, Canada and UK & other countries
I think you fail to see the sarcasm in LI’s post. It was an explanation of the sick ideoligy that he/she quoted in his/her post. Read it again in CONTEXT 
Re: Denfending Muslims and Pakistani Identity in USA, Canada and UK & other countries
Pakistan, was born as an Islamic state, now whether it has lived up to this identity is a separate issue...but what you are suggesting is totally absurd! How on earth can we ignore the palestinian issue? There are no two ways about it...either you are with them, or you are against them...it is just too irrational, as a muslim, to 'sit on the fence'.
As a Muslim I have everything to do with the Palestinian cause...more so as a human, It is my absoloute duty to at least acquaint myself with this issue, if not try and actively do my "bit" for the Palestinian people. **I would willingly lose my so-called identity of a "pakistani" in order to help the palestinians in any way possible...**
Think of the muslim ummah as a body...if one hand is hurt, then the other hand should automatically move to protect it and limit any damage...
Re: Denfending Muslims and Pakistani Identity in USA, Canada and UK & other countries
Too bad Zia didn't sit the fence when he and his lot were massacring Palestinians in Jordan.
Re: Denfending Muslims and Pakistani Identity in USA, Canada and UK & other countries
Well AMANA jee...like I said, you're either with the Palestinians...or you're against them...Zia chose whatever he had to... nor was I a political advisor to Zia...(infact I wasn't even alive at that time)...and nor does your message have any real relevance to the subject of the thread..The question posed is basically asking whether, Pakistanis ought to put their national identity above, and before their religious identity....It's not asking about the mistakes of ex-Pakistani governments...