Death Of Girls Illustrates Decay of Secularism

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
clubber lang

Seperate the cultural issues here. owning a pub is not illegal in US. As a matter of fact it is not illegal even under islamic laws, if you are not a muslim.

Now all that you have stated could be turned around in 3 diff ways.

1) since there are laws in US as well, is there "real freedom" here.
2) Do laws in themselves prevent illegal actions
3) How much of the stuff that is considered illegal still goes on but underground.

You seem to have a magic pill solution...Now the question is...Do we not read about crime during thr prophet's time? That to us is the perfect muslim state...yet crimes did take place...by your token that system was flawed...and by my token.. there are limites to what a system can do. if you want the system to be all controlling then you seem to be in favor of some religious version of chinese or old soviet regimes.
[/QUOTE]

Asalaam alikum

1st thing i wasnt talking abt what is legal in usa. Next point private house(pubs) would not be allowed in public becausse this would corrupt society and goes agaisnt islam.Non muslims would ONLY be allowed al alcohol in their private life, hence no pubs allowe in public

1) since there are laws in US as well, is there "real freedom" here.

Yes this is what iam saying that Capitalism is flawed in its foundation, because on 1 hand it is saying that mankind is FREE but on other hand they have laws. The problems arise because the good and bad is defined by mans limited mind, as every1 has different ideas of what is good n bad, there arise numerous problems, such as : can man really be Free? does man need to be obey laws? who decides the laws? and attiitudes such as "so what if I break laws, nothing is going to happen because life is about pleasure" etc

2) Do laws in themselves prevent illegal actions

OK the subject of this topic was that the laws in capitalism promote these illegal actions rather than stop them. eg if man has personal freedom then, is he or not allowed to have sex with a kid? is it ok to have same sex marraige? is homesexuilty allowed? and at what age is it ok? etc these laws are all based on the concept of freedoms so ppl naturally carry out these actions because for them they are practising their freedoms, (in their minds they are not doing anything wrong).

And finally your last point about crime in prophet(saw) time. Of course Islam is for humans and hence its human nature for man to do wrong things. Never did i mean to say that an islamic state will be angelic society, of course they will be sin in society. the point is that INSHALLAH there will be a lot less sins in society because society will be built on taqwa and life purpose will be based on seeking the pleasure of Allah(swt) and also due to the punshiments which aim to protect society from corruption. Naturally KHILAFAH will be run by men not angels and society will be men not angels. Point being is that through the KHIALFAH state a lot of the probelms faced in the West will be erradicted.

Man naturally is flawed and that is why Allah has a punishment system because naturally men make mistakes.
There is a difference between a Capitalist society and an Islamic society. Simply due to the fact that as Clubber said the values pushed in a capitalist state push freedom and to do as one pleases. To seek pleasure and to stay away from pain. We are taught to live life to the fullest and top just enjoy oneself and naturally as man is flawed with freedom comes corruption.
In an Islamic society the society won't be built round freedom to follow ones desire but the society will be built in order that people are to worship Allah and to do actions linked to afterlife etc so the viewpoint of the society will be completely different.
So although people aren't perfect that doesn't mean Islam is not perfect. Values pushed in this society are based around personal pleasure and following desires without a thought of the point of life and this will build criminals,rapists etc who have no view of their point of existence while in an Islamic society the people will be well aware of their point of existence and that is not to kill two little girls. Sure it is illegal in this society but when the society is based around personal freedom then does law really matter.
People don't make society. Society makes people and peoples actions are a reflection of society and in this case a corrupt one.