Death & Crying and Mourning.....

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

Hi Guys…

Another thing that always becomes a matter of controversy is that of when someone dies and some people say that crying gives pain to the souls of the dead and we should not cry but pray…

IS this true ?
Is crying actually gunnah ? :crying1:

Please let me know…

MS

2

i believe its the flow of emotions....i dont mind it...how can you control urself if a loved one dies???

but doing quran khani, or chaleeswain or blah is biddat..and therefore wrong!

3

how can doing Quran khani be bidat and gunah? thats really very crazy if u ask me..just think about it

mem Hazrat Yaqoob lost Hazrat Yousuf and he cried so much that he lost his eye sight..its in Quran..

[This message has been edited by Girl from Quraysh (edited November 25, 2000).]

4

Sheraz,

Crying is not gunnah. It's an emotional reaction that can be traced waaaaaaaaay back.

It is not appreciated to make a spectacle out of oneself by wailing and causing a scene. We are especially taught to refrain from attracting attention to ourselves in fear of losing modesty. (Aside: I vividly remember the scene as my father was being burried. Had I not been alone in the car with the windows rolled up, everyone would have heard me sobbing and pleading as his coffin was covered in dirt. All I could think was, "How will my papa breath with all that dirt on him??!" It was an irrational thought....an emotional reaction. I am sure that Allah will not hold that episode against me.)

I understand that one of the basic teachings of Islam is discipline. In every aspect of Islam a momin is taught to behave with control over his/her actions. Extend that to every situation and you will find the true path, inshallah.

The bidat part is yet unresolved in my mind. I have to investigate this myself before deciding what I believe. For the longest time my family did have quran-khwanis and then we stopped because they turned into social events rather than times devoted to prayer and recitation of the Book. One of my brothers had started to research whether or not this practice existed in early days of Islam...I can't remember if he found any traces. I will ask him what his finding were.

We did stop having chaleeswaNs etc. because Ammi said that these were customs and traditions....not really a part of Islam. Does that qualify them as bidat? I guess so.

And just to clarify....we are not wahabis.

[This message has been edited by Muzna (edited November 23, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Girl from Quraysh (edited November 25, 2000).]

5

yep, no wahabis here either...

did the prophet or sahabas perfor chaleeswans or quran khani???

think of the purpose of a quran khani.....you get into someone's house...

i read a para, you read a para, he reads a para, she reads a para...not even knowing what is it that she/he/me/you is/am/are reading...whats the pt...shouldnt the person pray with in him/herself so its pure and out of the heart....think...

6

There is no saheeh evidence (daleel) to indicate that this practice is prescribed in sharee’ah. Therefore it is an act of bi’dah (innovation) which we should avoid, warn others against and not take part in. We should adhere to the sunnah, which contains sufficient alternatives to all the innovated practices. The hadeeth “Recite Yaa-Seen for your dead” is a da’eef (weak) hadeeth.

*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

[This message has been edited by Girl from Quraysh (edited November 25, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Girl from Quraysh (edited November 25, 2000).]

7

Check this link:
http://islamicity.com/qa and search for

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

The link is not working for some reason. Let me post it here:

Question#:
4367.0
Question Date:
1995-01-01
Topic :
Death: Mourning
Question:
When a member of the family dies, what sort of mourning is allowed?
Answer:
Different societies have different customs and traditions associated with death in the family. In non-Islamic societies, there are visible signs of mourning which are supposed to convey grief. People, especially women, should wear black for a certain period, according to the degree of their relation with the deceased. Men may wear a black tie, etc. In certain communities, death is marked by loud crying and tearing of clothes, etc. All this is forbidden in Islam. This does not preclude that people may grieve for their deceased and they may express their grief with shedding tears. This sort of crying must not be accompanied by wailing. That is un-Islamic. The maximum period of mourning for a woman is three days, if the deceased is a very close relation to her, but not her husband. In other words, mourning for a deceased father, son or brother may be only over a period of three days, after that, she must show her acceptance of Allah’s verdict. We have a report of two cases of the Prophet’s wives, Um Habiba and Zainab. The first lost her father, Abu Sufian, and the other lost her brother. After three days, in each case, each of them requested perfume to wear. Both of them said that they had no desire whatsoever to wear perfume, but they had heard the Prophet saying: “It is not lawful for a woman who believes in Allah and the day of judgement to be in mourning for any deceased person for over three nights, except for her husband when the period of mourning is four months and ten days.” As you realize, this is the length of the waiting period of a widow. During her waiting period, she must not wear make-up.
Source:
Arab News

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

[This message has been edited by The Watcher (edited November 23, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by The Watcher (edited November 23, 2000).]

8

You follow your imaams not sunnah. Prove to me if "matam" was done by MOhammad?

Show me if inflicting harm on ones self is ok in quran?

I believe that ignorences, or lack of familiarity, is the parent of fear. We are generally afraid of what we don't understand and what we don't know. And fear is parent of hatred. Though some hatred is learned, we otherwise often hate what we are afraid of.

We should all condemn the practices which were not done by Mohammad and practices that Allah forbids. But some people tend to defend the beliefs of their forefathers and consider them self Muslims. We ought to follow quran and sunnah not our forefathers.

Take it easy.

*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

[This message has been edited by The Watcher (edited November 23, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Girl from Quraysh (edited November 25, 2000).]

9

ok sheraaz, this has gotten deep enough!

**let me start from teh basic…and plz READ EVERY SINGLE WORD! **

1.The 12 imams arised after teh prophet’s death, CORRECT?

2.They are true muslims (according to shia’ beliefs) that never made mistakes, and followed teh Islamic laws completely, CORRECT?

3.They did not commit biddat, kufr, shirk, etc, CORRECT?

4.They were perfect, CORRECT?

5.Now, if they were perfect, their descendents were on the right path and some still are, CORRECT?

6.Then what is matam? IF it wasnt there when the PROPHET was alive, and IF it is not mentioned in the QURAN, then (as you said), it was done during the times of teh IMAMS, CORRECT?

This means it is a practice that was ADDED after the prophets death to mourn for the dead, CORRECT?

THEN I ASK YOU, IF THIS IS NOT AN INNOVATION, WHAT IS???

*NOTE: plz feel free to CORRECT me if I’m wrong

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

10

firstly honey if its not in sahi its not my problem..as u know we dont believe in sahi..we have our own hadith books like u have urs..who said it wasnt happening in Prophets time? just cuz its not in sahi ? but i thought u already knew that we dont believe in it..anyways my pathan bhai wrote this earlier about matam..if u didnt read it here it is:

Hey watcher how can you say doing Matam is not right. When Hazrat Humza (as) Hazoor’s
chucha got shaheed in a jung and all the so called muslims ran away from hazoor the rumour got around in Mecca that Hazoor (pbuh) has got shaheed. The next morning once Hazoor (pbuh) along with Hazrta Ali (as)and few TRUE SAHABA (r.a) came to Mecca and found everyone including BIBI fatima (as) crying he said “Do the seena zanni (matam) for humza”.
Look through in history book u got under the chapter Jang-e-Ohad and if you dont find it let me know.

“Whoever accepted me as his master, then he should also accept Ali as his master. O Allah be friendly with his friends, and be enemy to his enemy” [28]

[23]
Sahih, Bukhari, vol 2 p 305
Sahih, Muslim, vol 2 p 356
Mustadrak, al Hakim, vol 3 p 109

[24]
Sahih, Bukhari, vol 1 p 76
Sahih, Tirmidhi, vol 5 p 300
Sunan, Ibn Majah, vol 1 p 44

[25]Sahih, Muslim, vol 1 p 61
Sunan, al Nasai, vol 6 p 117
Sahih, al Tirmidhi, vol 8 p 306

[26]
Sahih, Tirmidhi, vol 5 p 201
Mustadrak, al Hakim, vol 3 p 126

[27]
Musnad, Ahmed Hanbal, vol 5 p 25
Mustadrak, Hakim, vol 3 p 134
Sahih, al Tirmidhi, vol 5 p 296

[28]
Sahih, Muslim, vol 2 p 362
Mustadrak, Hakim, vol 3 p 109
Musnad, Ahmed Hanbal, vol 4 p 281

dont even try to think anythin bad bout the Imam..and never even try to compare them with ur khalifas ok

Abu Bakr said, "May Allah never put me in a predicament that Abu al-Hasan cannot solve. " And Umar said, “If it was not for Ali, Umar would have perished.” [89]

[89]
al Isti’ab, vol 3 p 39
Manaqib al Khawarizmi, p 48
al Riyadh al Nadirah, vol 2 p 194

11

Ji Guys!!!

Thanks for totally knackering my thread!!!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/frown.gif

For those whose answers were relevant - they made sense and Thanks for them.

and all others - you just all keep arguing and tearing each other to shreads - it’s all so mature and so enlightening to read!

** NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT **

Please Please stop fighting

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/frown.gif

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/frown.gif

Mem

12

Bibi fatema used to cry after the death of the prophet!

And as we all know the "great Sahabas" did not let her cry!

When hazrat Hamza Got Shaheed The prophet called all the women of Madena to cry for him!

Watcher said "sherraz plz provide refrance from Quran"

And when he posted from Islamic city Not one mention of Quran was there!

Watcher,
Is posting from Quran only a must for Shias!

OUR LORD! WE HAVE INDEED HEARD THE VOICE OF A CRIER(MESSENGER)CALLING TO THE FAITH: "BELIVE IN YOUR LORD" SO WE BELIVED. OUR LORD! FORGIVE US THEN OUR SINS, AND REMOVE FROM US OUR EVIL DEEDS, AND CAUSE US DIE ALONG WITH THE VIRTUOUS

(3:193)