Dear Filhaal ...

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

AsSalaamu 'alaykum,

First and foremost, welcome to the forum brother.

There often seems to be a sense of excitement around me when i notice a new member posting. I suppose in a way, the unpredictability of what is to follow brings its own fascinations.

Anyway, i’m sorry, back to my main point. I read an earlier one of your posts, in which you said:

Forgive me, perhaps its my ignorance, but i don’t recall Allaah - subhaana wa ta’aala - stating that the Qur’aan is fully detailed. Can you be as kind as to provide a reference for this, as i may have over looked it … wallaahu 'aalam.

kind regards&peace

“No leaf falls except that He knows of it, and no rain drop forms except that He has willed it.”

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Dear Husnain, dear all, salaam,

thank you for the introduction!!

yes in my other post i wrote that the Quran is PERFECT, COMPLETE and FULLY-DETAILED!!

whenever you ask the question on the comleteness (and other features that i listed above) of the quran every muslim will answer yes, but after further inquiry, one notices that the masses today are paying lip-service.

i have often read and heard the following claims:"yes quran is complete, but it does not have everything in detail, or you can not understand it without other books (eq. hadith) or the interpretation of a pir, mullah etc.!!
This (and many other things) made me decide to do some research of my own!! and i came to the above-mentioned conclusion!!

Here are some verses from the Quran:

"And certainly We have repeated for humankind, in this Quran, every kind of
example, but the majority of humankind do not consent to aught but denying." (17:89)

God is talking about EVERY KIND of EXAMPLE

“We have put forth for humans, in this Qur’an, every kind of example so that they may
remember” (Qur’an 39:27).

"And We have revealed the Book to you which has the clear explanation of everything
, and a guidance and mercy
and good news for those who submit." (16:89)

Again GOD says that HIs book has " CLEAR EXPLANATION of EVERYTHING". GOD is making a claim of COMPLETENESS!!

Some other verses on the DETAILEDNESS of the quran:

“Shall I then seek a Ruler other than Allah? When He it is Who has revealed to you the
Book (which is) distinctly detailed” (6:114)

“And certainly We have brought them a Book, which We have detailed with
knowledge, a guidance and mercy for a people who believe”
(7:52)

“A Book of which the verses are distinctly detailed, an Arabic
Qur’an for people who know” (41:3)

“Indeed We have made the verses detailed for a people who take reminder ” (6:126)

GOD is claiming that HIS book is detailed, so why do the masses not believe what God has said in HIS book revealed to us through his Prophet (saw)??!! Why do people say that they need other books (eq. hadith) to SUPPLEMENT, EXPLAIN GOD's WORD??

in other words the book of God is complete, perfect and detailed enough for our salvation!!

hopefully this makes my point clear!!!!!!

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Allah says that prayer (salaat) is 'a timely prescription'....
Al-Nisaa: Verse 103
"Prayer (tranlated from arabic word salaat) at fixed hours hath been enjoined on the believers."

now where does the Quran give us the time when to pray these prayers....
and how do we pray them????

Surah Al-Juma, verse 9
"O ye who believe! when the call is proclaimed to prayer on Friday (the Day of Assembly) hasten earnestly to the Remembrance of Allah and leave off business: that is best for you if ye but knew!"

which call????
what prayer????
how do we make the call????
how do we offer the prayer????

do we get answers from the hadith????
or is it hidden somewhere in between the words in the Quran????

but Quran has no hidden meanings, its such plain and clear....
Surah Yusu: Verse 1
"Alif Lam Ra. These are the Verses of the Perspicuous Book"
Perspicuous means Clearly expressed or presented; easy to understand

"Our Lord! forgive us our sins and anything we may have done that transgressed our duty; establish our feet firmly and help us against those that resist faith." **Quran(3:147)

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dear Armughal,

prayer is one of the major issues put forward when someone puts the Quran as the only source of Islam!!

because you put this issue forward, i have a question for you: if God tells you in HIS BOOK that he has not left anything out of his BOOK, are not you convinced that GOD is telling the truth.??? (reference to ayat from the quran that i cited above)

there are a few possibilities:
-God forgot to mention the prayer time, azaan, number of rakhat, the exact method of wudhu etc
-God is NOT TELLING the TRUTH when he claims that his BOOK is COMPLETE.
-or YOU have not READ and UNDERSTOOD the book of GOD properly!!!!(i am not saying that i understand everything, i am also learning everyday newer insights about religion, these kinds of discussions help alot, i think!!)

surely, you will understand that the first two remarks are absurd!!

in other words, what i mean is that the proper way to conduct prayer is present in the quran, but we people need to be openminded when we read and try to understand the book of God!!

i will try to answer your question abvout prayer in a later post, but first i want to know from you: in your opinion is the quran deficient??
or is God naive and superficial in the quran when you suggest that the proper way to conduct salat/prayer is not in the quran??

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[quote]
Originally posted by armughal:
**Allah says that prayer (salaat) is 'a timely prescription'....
Al-Nisaa: Verse 103
"Prayer (tranlated from arabic word salaat) at fixed hours hath been enjoined on the believers."

now where does the Quran give us the time when to pray these prayers....
and how do we pray them????**
[/quote]

Look harder and you'll find all answers. The trouble with human beings is that they are a contentious lot and wish to find what they want rather than be patient and content with what they find. What if you find a minimal set of instructions or framework. Why would you want to add more to it?? What compels one to turn to other sources when the Qur'an gives only minor points to observe and leaves the rest upto one's own understanding?

[quote]
**Surah Al-Juma, verse 9
"O ye who believe! when the call is proclaimed to prayer on Friday (the Day of Assembly) hasten earnestly to the Remembrance of Allah and leave off business: that is best for you if ye but knew!"

which call????
what prayer????
how do we make the call????
how do we offer the prayer????**
[/quote]

According to traditions you believe in, how did this call orginate?? weren't people discussing to ring bells or the like?? What does that tell you?? Most of these methods of observing Allah's commands originated through consensus and self determination instead of a divine command. Allah had left it upto the people to decide what was convenient. What people forgot is that the message in the Qur'an is timeless and every society can interpret it and adjust it according to it's times. Today people insist on being rigid with the 8th century interpretations.

[quote]
do we get answers from the hadith????
or is it hidden somewhere in between the words in the Quran????
[/quote]

We DO NOT get any clear cut answers from hadith.. all we get are opinions, stories, heresay and from that a bunch of people come to some consensus and hence form a school of thought following so and so Imam. Which is why every sect has their own set of hadith from which they derive further rulings themself. Who is right? Who is wrong?? Definitely the Qur'an is the ONLY right book as all sects agree to it's authenticity.

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filhaal: I salute you! great reply!!!

I wonder why Ibrahim and co still haven’t replied to this thread…

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

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Since we cannot seem to leave this topic, maybe the comments from the following thread can be directed here as well:
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum13/HTML/005492.html