Re: Deal between IK and Govt ??
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Re: Deal between IK and Govt ??
If he were just asking for honest elections then I would have supported him, however he has gone beyond that to trying to topple a government through extra constitutional means. This is not based on principles but political expediency, which means that he can no longer command the moral high ground although in his speeches he still allures to that.
Everything is fair between love, war, games and politics. Nawaz is not as respectable as Musharraf that he would resign (actually, till today, no Pakistani head of state has respectably resigned except Musharraf).
Normally, a fast bowler do not have patient or docility. Imran in few days should invade parliament building with his men and throw PMLN out of the building ... then two things could happen.
[Imran should know, that if he would not make move ... takeover or attack parliament, then nothing would happen and then initiative would be left with TUQ to do that].
1: Nawaz a coward could only hold his ground if establishment is behind him, but if Imran and his men would invade, Nawaz would run and not to Raiwand but to Jeddah ... suna hay kay he already asked Jeddah that he could come back again and they declined, so this time he would run to London or to his mummy Hilary Clinton in USA.
2: If Nawaz would not run than boots would come and with all his misdeeds, they would hang him high.
Re: Deal between IK and Govt ??
Everything is fair between love, war, games and politics. Nawaz is not as respectable as Musharraf ..
You are right as supporter of Altaf and supporter of the traitors & establishment
Re: Deal between IK and Govt ??
Everything is fair between love, war, games and politics. Nawaz is not as respectable as Musharraf that he would resign (actually, till today, no Pakistani head of state has respectably resigned except Musharraf).
Normally, a fast bowler do not have patient or docility. Imran in few days should invade parliament building with his men and throw PMLN out of the building ... then two things could happen.
[Imran should know, that if he would not make move ... takeover or attack parliament, then nothing would happen and then initiative would be left with TUQ to do that].
1: Nawaz a coward could only hold his ground if establishment is behind him, but if Imran and his men would invade, Nawaz would run and not to Raiwand but to Jeddah ... suna hay kay he already asked Jeddah that he could come back again and they declined, so this time he would run to London or to his mummy Hilary Clinton in USA.
2: If Nawaz would not run than boots would come and with all his misdeeds, they would hang him high.
**Siraj said that the Punjab governor had assured him that the army would not intervene in the current political crisis.
**
Further, he added that Interior Minister Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan had invited him to come to Islamabad but he urged the interior minister to avoid any delay in negotiations. He said he would be able to leave for Islamabad tomorrow (Sunday).
If the army does not intervene then perhaps IK is upping the ante in order to get his friend Chaudhary Nisar to give him a fast face saving exit.
Re: Deal between IK and Govt ??
If they invade Parliament, Imran or TUQ, none of them have anything to lose but everything to gain. Army would not come to stop them or rescue Thug Gullu Shareef. If situation would go bad than boots would come in their own behalf.
Thing is that, if boots would come and they would not like to stay (as many believe they are not interested to takeover) than it would be better for Imran ... because Army after takeover would most likely going to hold election in next six month to a year ... after all required reforms and promise that they would handover power completely only after their reforms would get approved by parliament.
[It is also possible that army might decide to stay for foreseeable future and then ... all politicians would have to wait years to start filling their pocket and exploiting Pakistanis again]
Re: Deal between IK and Govt ??
**Siraj said that the Punjab governor had assured him that the army would not intervene in the current political crisis.
** Further, he added that Interior Minister Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan had invited him to come to Islamabad but he urged the interior minister to avoid any delay in negotiations. He said he would be able to leave for Islamabad tomorrow (Sunday).
If the army does not intervene then perhaps IK is upping the ante in order to get his friend Chaudhary Nisar to give him a fast face saving exit.
You are right ... army would not intervene ... as I wrote too that army would not intervene to save parliament from invasion or save Gullu Thug Shareef from getting mob justice ... hanged. Thus it would be fine for people in long march to start invading parliament and giving mob justice to guilty parliamentarians, including Thug Gullu Shareefs, without fear of armed forces intervention :).
Re: Deal between IK and Govt ??
If they invade Parliament, Imran or TUQ, none of them have anything to lose but everything to gain. Army would not come to stop them or rescue Thug Gullu Shareef. If situation would go bad than boots would come in their own behalf.
Thing is that, if boots would come and they would not like to stay (as many believe they are not interested to takeover) than it would be better for Imran ... because Army after takeover would most likely going to hold election in next six month to a year ... after all required reforms and promise that they would handover power completely only after their reforms would get approved by parliament.
[It is also possible that army might decide to stay for foreseeable future and then ... all politicians would have to wait years to start filling their pocket and exploiting Pakistanis again]
If they do storm the parliament then the nation would expect the police and paramilitary forces to stop the protesters even if they have to use violent means. Other then getting their supporters killed I don't think they would achieve anything. The army cannot takeover if the government wants to maintain the law and order. Protecting Parliament is something that most of us would expect from the government. Nobody can be allowed to take the law into their own hands. Army cannot side with the troublemakers without some negative impact on its reputation.
Re: Deal between IK and Govt ??
If they do storm the parliament then the nation would expect the police and paramilitary forces to stop the protesters even if they have to use violent means. Other then getting their supporters killed I don't think they would achieve anything. The army cannot takeover if the government wants to maintain the law and order. Protecting Parliament is something that most of us would expect from the government. Nobody can be allowed to take the law into their own hands. Army cannot side with the troublemakers without some negative impact on its reputation.
Paramilitary forces are under army, so obviously they would not intervene (as army decided not to intervene ... according to your own statement).
Now police. Police can only control mob if mob is willing to trust them, listen to them, have fear of them and consider them a legal authority. But present police after 17 June murder has lost all moral standing of representing state. So mob would attack the police too (TUQ men have danda with nails) giving them mob justice, and I doubt if police would be able to stand charged mob's anger ... especially when even many in police must be thinking that present government is illegal, brutal and 'Imran plus TUQ' have all right to ask for their resignation.
Re: Deal between IK and Govt ??
You are right ... army would not intervene ... as I wrote too that army would not intervene to save parliament from invasion or save Gullu Thug Shareef from getting mob justice ... hanged. Thus it would be fine for people in long march to start invading parliament and giving mob justice to guilty parliamentarians, including Thug Gullu Shareefs, without fear of armed forces intervention :).
yeh kya MQM ke bible main hay ke khoon kharaba zaroor karna hay. Qasayon ki party hay sochtan bhi waisay hi hain. NS has full powers to quash any untoward incident, even he has to use force for it. I think it is better for NS to start curfew in ISB, and let those all kriaaay ke tattoo go back to their homes.
Re: Deal between IK and Govt ??
Paramilitary forces are under army, so obviously they would not intervene (as army decided not to intervene ... according to your own statement).
Now police. Police can only control mob if mob is willing to trust them, listen to them, have fear of them and consider them a legal authority. But present police after 17 June murder has lost all moral standing of representing state. So mob would attack the police too (TUQ men have danda with nails) giving them mob justice, and I doubt if police would be able to stand charged mob's anger ... especially when even many in police must be thinking that present government is illegal, brutal and 'Imran plus TUQ' have all right to ask for their resignation.
Paramilitary forces would be technically under chaudhary nisar but are in reality headed by army officers. I think that about 35,000 Paramilitary forces have been called up to assist the police and are on standby already stationed in Islamabad.
Re: Deal between IK and Govt ??
Paramilitary forces would be technically under chaudhary nisar but are in reality headed by army officers. I think that about 35,000 Paramilitary forces have been called up to assist the police and are on standby.
Well, I doubt if paramilitary forces would have made any difference even if they were not part of army ... still, what I know, paramilitary forces are part of armed forces.
Secondly, why you think that army, paramilitary forces or even police would or should intervene to save present government?
All know (including armed forces, paramilitary forces and police) that last election was massively rigged.
Imran Khan was only asking that to check 4 parliamentary seats, not because they were claiming those seats, but because they believe that lot of rigging happened on those seats and wanted confirmation. if government had agreed to get them checked and no rigging was discovered, than PTI would have accepted PMLN government but if rigging would have got confirmed than new election under military supervision was coming. Everyone knows why PMLN government was evading demand (as they knew that rigging happened in massive way).
So ... you tell me, why anyone would risk their life (army or paramilitary forces) and fight mob who wants to correct things that happened wrongly for them and for Pakistan?
Re: Deal between IK and Govt ??
yeh kya MQM ke bible main hay ke khoon kharaba zaroor karna hay. Qasayon ki party hay sochtan bhi waisay hi hain. NS has full powers to quash any untoward incident, even he has to use force for it. I think it is better for NS to start curfew in ISB, and let those all kriaaay ke tattoo go back to their homes.
Aap tou fikr na karo. Ab bari nahi aani. PPP ko Zardari gutter may baha lay giya. To get into power using massive rigging and agreement with PMLN was one way, but now it seems that this venue is also going to change. :)
Soon, Sindh would also throw these parasites out and then InshaAllah we would really see Sindh as 'Sohni Dharti' ... not dharti of 'pain and misery'. :)
Re: Deal between IK and Govt ??
Well, I doubt if paramilitary forces would have made any difference even if they were not part of army ... still, what I know, paramilitary forces are part of armed forces.
Secondly, why you think that army, paramilitary forces or even police would or should intervene to save present government?
All know (including armed forces, paramilitary forces and police) that last election was massively rigged.
Imran Khan was only asking that to check 4 parliamentary seats, not because they were claiming those seats, but because they believe that lot of rigging happened on those seats and wanted confirmation. if government had agreed to get them checked and no rigging was discovered, than PTI would have accepted PMLN government but if rigging would have got confirmed than new election under military supervision was coming. Everyone knows why PMLN government was evading demand (as they knew that rigging happened in massive way).
So ... you tell me, why anyone would risk their life (army or paramilitary forces) and fight mob who wants to correct things that happened wrongly for them and for Pakistan?
Its not about saving the government. If the government loses a confidence vote in parliament it will have to go. The job of police and paramilitary is to maintain law and order and to protect life and property of people.
Re: Deal between IK and Govt ??
Its not about saving the government. If the government loses a confidence vote in parliament it will have to go. The job of police and paramilitary is to maintain law and order and to protect life and property of people.
To maintain law and order against criminals.
What you think? When Nawaz was leading long march to get his corrupt and choor judge Iftikhar on seat as Chief Justice, and Zardari had ordered Army or paramilitary forces to teach PMLN and his men a lesson, then what would have happened?
Actually, Z A Bhutto did that in past ... asked armed forces to control people and bring law and order in cities ... and do you know the result?
Army seeing people charged, they refused (Brig Niaz refused to fire on PNA in Lahore) ... that eventually brought in Military rule (of Zia).
Re: Deal between IK and Govt ??
Ah yes! the refreshing notion of encouraging elected and unelected political parties to “invade” the parliament, and the sweet notion that Army would come, hold elections to allow people to elect their new bosses, and would then return to the borders. Were you around during ex-CAOS a.k.a. President Musharraf’s era?
The best thing Army can do is to offer consultation, and fact-based analysis of security situation to the provincial and federal governments, and guide them to put in place measures to ensure citizens’ safety. The best thing the elected officials can do is to stop filling their households with haram whether it’s by corruption, or extortion of legitimate businesses.
I’m still chuckling at this nugget. So essentially "Army after takeover will decide to remain in power as long as they deem it fit to fulfill their purposes, or until the parliament returns to “Bring it, we’ll stamp it no questions asked” mode. Army would then decide to vacate the politics after the pressure becomes too much, a new NRO by the Chief to the same politicians, exploitations starts again, and Sa1eem comes out looking like as if he had literally written it as it would happen.
Sounds perfect, bruh! And might I add, very much the same as last 20 years. :k:
Re: Deal between IK and Govt ??
^^^I only gave suggestion. I am not saying that army should or would come, but I am saying that this could happen.
If not then also that is fine. What is happening today has happened in 1977 too, when political parties came out on road against the rigging of Bhutto and that caused law and order problem all over Pakistan. Such can happen today too, that is all.
If it was fine for people to come out on road and challenge Prime Minister Bhutto and his government in 1977 claiming that they are not legally holding office but are there due to rigging the election, than why same is not fine if Imran Khan is doing that today?
**If Imran is guilty of not accepting massively rigged election result, then almost all Pakistani political parties that we see today are guilty of same crime, when they challenged 1977 result and formed PNA against the government of Bhutto.
As for Bhutto (and PPP), he was also guilty of not accepting election result of 1971 and right of Mujib to rule Pakistan.**
Re: Deal between IK and Govt ??
Alright Sa1eem bhai. I'm glad that we all want peace to prevail, and for politicians to mature their politics for the better of the people they swear to represent.
Re: Deal between IK and Govt ??
In 1977 PML and their allies were asking resignation of Bhutto claiming that 1977 election was rigged.
In 2014 PTI and their allies are asking resignation of Thug Gullu claiming that 2013 election was rigged
So, what is the logic?
Agar PML (and allies) demand resignation of PM (1977) tou Ras-lila hay
Aur agar PTI demand resignation of PM (2014) tou character dheela hay.
Re: Deal between IK and Govt ??
To maintain law and order against criminals.
What you think? When Nawaz was leading long march to get his corrupt and choor judge Iftikhar on seat as Chief Justice, and Zardari had ordered Army or paramilitary forces to teach PMLN and his men a lesson, then what would have happened?
Actually, Z A Bhutto did that in past ... asked armed forces to control people and bring law and order in cities ... and do you know the result?
Army seeing people charged, they refused (Brig Niaz refused to fire on PNA in Lahore) ... that eventually brought in Military rule (of Zia).
Maintaining public order is also a job of the police and paramilitary forces. Nawaz Sharif was marching to restore judiciary but not to topple Zardari. IK wants to topple govt.
Re: Deal between IK and Govt ??
Maintaining public order is also a job of the police and paramilitary forces. Nawaz Sharif was not marching to restore judiciary but not to topple Zardari. IK wants to topple govt.
Yahi tou hay. :)
Army is waiting to see if public order does not deteriorate, that can if government do something silly. Anyhow, if public order would get deteriorate than to maintain public order they would act to get rid of person illegally occupying Prime Minister office. :)
Anyhow, it is not duty of army, police or paramilitary forces to suppress political discontent in the country and attack political opponents. What happened on 17th June at TUQ residence, that would have sent government, includign Prime Minister, Chief Minister, Law Minister, as well as all police officers involved to prison and later to rope.
[News is that, inquiry commission has already recommended that names of Prime Minister Thug Gullu Shareef, Chief Minister Chotta Thug Gullu Shareef, Hamza Shahbaz, Rana Sannaullah, Saad Rafeeq, Secretary Punjab, and many senior police officers to get included in FIR on charges of murder].