Dead OR Alive

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Dead OR Alive

perhaps O is a big reason but then why afghanistan? talibans hadn't been in power for years. If iraq was on the list then y get stuck in Afghanistan to begin with?

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underthecross you cannot continue attacking posters personally in response to their views.

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^^Where did I attack them individually, Are you Insane, Ravage, what the hell are you talking about.??????

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if you dont understand after seeing the post edited and my private warning to you, then theres always learning by doing that i hope you try. although that will earn you a few month rest you’ll learn something new Inshallah.

your already taking the first step on the road when you call me insane :k:

Time Pass …….
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talibans had not been in power for years? what are you talking about.

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Think about U:fifa::smiley:

if
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talibans had not been in power for years? what are you talking about. do you know when taleban came in power? also do you know when there were discussions with US regarding the oil pipelines from turkmenistan in 199t, does the word Unocal ring a bell. There was a need to get it out via Afghanistan because if it went via russia, they were goign to charge significant transportation fees.

While US had an issue with taleban laws. If you go back and pick up newspapers circa 94, versus 2000 and 2001 you will see a world of change. The media war had not started, taleban regime was treated as an oddity, but the fact that they were here in Texas on the invitation of US govt makes both the US govt, and the Taleban sound like hypocrits.

I would urge you to read uo on UNOCAL and the CentGas pipeline a bit, how Hamid Karzai ..te current US installed president of Afghanistan (or mayor of kabul) was a consultant to UNOCAL, same for Zalmay Khalilzad..

I hope some if this allows you to connect the dots that this was not about lifestyle, although high school dropout americana types think that was the reason, because if that was the reason they should have attacked saudi sarabia and afghanistan years ago. This was and is about oil. same goes for Iraq.

agent Osama just gave a really good excuse to shortcut the whole thing and remove the Taleban middlemen out of the way.

the players in that whole thing involved names like Kenneth Lay, (yeah yeah the Enron guy) other companies headed by our current president and vice president invested in the project as well as Enron. the deal looked like it was not going to happen due to Taleban's insisting that as a prerequisite US has to address palestinian issue.

If someone can go and look at the enron documents shredded, one can probably find that Enron issues were related to
and what happens, the top brass at Enron does not get touched while for the actions of one team of Arthur Andersen, the entire company gets killed.. by none other than Chertoff who diverted public attention to "corrupt freedy rich accounting partners". Chertoff was rewarded for this by then later being made teh cazr for homeland security.

interesting read ... if you have the time and can connect people and places.

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The Taliban in whatever form they take, is an evil and gross distortion of the Islam... I for one think the death of anyone who supports this form of Islam, is a blessing from god... We should be thanking the NATO or American forces for taking care of this menace.

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Why?? Are you grater then the people who post here, Mr “holier than thou” every one is equal, you can show every bit of insanity as anyone else on this forum.

Enough said…

I dont want to waste my time with you.
:wave:

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Re: Dead OR Alive

I have no problem with your comment, Fair enough! The problem I have is when you say it being a Muslim, Presumably you are one?

If you say the death of the Muslims, living in their country, being occupied by a foreign Non-Muslim force, fighting for their freedom, is a blessing from God.
Then I think you agree when I say Muhammad fought the (unbelievers) in Badr, or Auhad, and lost his comrades in the process was also a blessing from God.

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Dear Fraudz and Dear croquet

You both are going in concentric circles, can we come to a consensus…

I think both of you agree that the invasion of Iraq/Afghanistan was unlawful, and secondly, If Muslims are loosing their lives to “get their home land free from the occupying “Mushriqs” then they are “shaheeds”.

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the war may be illegal
but just because someone is fighting and dies does not make him a shaheed.
is it fight for faitrh or fight for nationalism.
cuz the same ppl who talk about shaheed disagree with the concept of countries and nationalism.

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OK So You agree Upon..
1. The war is illegal.
2. People who are part of an illegal activity are criminals, and should be punished.:)

Hahhahah.. so the Pakistani’s who died in the 65 war and the 71 war are not shaheeds, the bottom line being, (According to Islam, i.e if You think it’s a religion) If you are a Muslim, and a non-Muslim force occupies your Home/Country, and you die fighting them , you are a shaheed. Whether you like it or not that’s the truth.:)

I dont know if that is a personal remark or not, so I wont reply.

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with due process, because if vigilante 'justice' is allowed. then the war is legitimate because it went after a regime harbouring terrorists that had launched attacks against innocent ppl.

so I agree upon in conditionally. I am assuming you agree with the same conditions.

does islam allow nationalism. yes or no.
if the answer is yes then you are right, if its no then you are wrong .
so tell me, does islam allow nationalism?

prove it.
islam also has rules of war too

its not a personal remark, so u are free to answer it.
how can someone on one hand say nationlaism is not allowed in islam
yet, if you die fighting a war for your country you are a shaheed.

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I agree with you with one condition, vigilante “justice” only took place with the Americans forcing the war, you don’t go on war killing thousands of innocent human beings in catching a handfull of people who you think as “terrorists”(a very debatable term).
BTW : who says Islam does not allow nationalism, Yes If You live in a sovereign Muslim country, You ought to be a nationalist. In simpler words, being a nationalist is OK unless you dont have to go against the teachings of Islam

PS: I have proved it by the verses of Quran, for an indepth analysis, contact the book.

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And this piece of crap Mullah Dadullah that you are trying to edify was a mass murderer of innocents. If you contact the book I think you'll discover that is against the teachings of Islam.

If Aghanistan had not been harboring those who planned and attacked America, then there wouldn't be any non-Muslims occupying their country. These Mushriqs actually did them a facor by desposing of those who were making a mockery of Islam. Perhaphs the dead NATO soldiers are the real shaheed.

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americans would not have forced the war had taleban not been protecting OBL and co.

as far as nationalism, thats what all the scholars say, and the 'scholars' on this board too that nationalism is not allowed.

Regardless no matter what the conditions, one can not become a shaheed by killing innocent ppl.

by your example a Hamas guy who goes on a suicide bombing thing and kills a bus full of children is a shaheed?

nyah mon I dont need to consult any book.

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At this point I would want to end the discussion, as I don’t believe in long winded threads that loose their scope.

**I would want the readers to please read all the “contributing” replies in this thread and make up your own mind.

The End.**

Remembering only a few points…
1. The Israeli army is made up of irregulars, meaning, A baker, A farmer, and a DJ all serve the Israeli army from time to time persecuting and killing the Palestinians.

  1. Terrorism is a vague term, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter, so clear your concept on that.

  2. Clear your concept on “innocent Civilians” too, OBL thinks that the American people are not innocent because they vote in presidents who support the Israeli’s morally, financially and militarily, Or when bush goes on a rampage occupying countries and killing these ‘Terrorists’ saying that the ‘innocent’ people are collateral damage.

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What a complete Dandy In Cool Kashmere !