this is non-sense question basically…since time is a relative thing ( ref. Einstein), it’s no use asking this question and giving answers in ‘time’…Because the ‘Day of Judgement’ is going to take place in the whole universe, it’s no use talking about a date or so…u should have asked this question in terms of ‘interval-spacetime’.
One day of Allah is equal to 1000 Years<<<<
SalamanNY: the very moment u give Allah a notion of time, you invariably say he has a beginning and an end (ref. the theory of causes and effectand ref. Einstein’s theory of relativity)
so by this automatically the rest of ur ‘rocket science’ can be thrown into the garbage container
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by NeSCio: *
this is non-sense question basically.......since time is a relative thing ( ref. Einstein), it's no use asking this question and giving answers in 'time'.....Because the 'Day of Judgement' is going to take place in the whole universe, it's no use talking about a date or so..........u should have asked this question in terms of 'interval-spacetime'.
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NeSCio, I thought that the "Day of Judgement" was only for Earth, and so I thought in terms of Earth-years. I may be wrong, because the concept of "Day of Judgement" is not there in my native religion.
Anyway, I don't know how to think in terms of 'interval-spacetime'. :)
And they will bid thee hasten on the Doom, and Allah faileth not His promise, but lo! a Day with Allah is as a thousand years of what ye reckon. [Surah Al Hajj (22) : 47 ]
He directeth the ordinance from the heaven unto the earth; then it ascendeth unto Him in a Day, whereof the measure is a thousand years of that ye reckon. [Surah As-Sajdah (32) :5 ]
Thank you Anwaar bahi i hope this will answer NeSCio… concern about me giving the notion of time to Allah s.w.t. Indeed i have to do a lil bit of search regarding this. I have heard this one day=1000 day long back in pakistan from a very known scholar … i will try to dig it out and elaborate more on it.
-Salman
there are two ways of tackling this problem, the quranic way and the theoretical physical way. Let’s start with the latter:
what is a day? How do we measure a day? How is a day defined? Before you read on, answer these questions for urself............
A day is the time required for the earth to rotate around its axis. A year is the time for the earth to circle around the Sun. So if you say that Allah has some notion of day, how will he measure it???? Are you saying that Allah is someone on a planet who has to look at the Sun (=star, which star will he use? He’s everywhere) to define a day????? I thought Allah was absolute, he doesn’t need any reference to judge time....indeed, for him Time does NOT exist. So how can he have a feeling for a day???? Suppose even then, he has some notion of ‘day’ and therefore ‘time’, if so, it will mean he is subject to (the speed of) light, cuz light is what makes time into being. And again we know that Allah is superior to light, so WHY and HOW could he be subject to light in order for him to define time?
Now going back to the verses: 22:47 and 32:5, in which 1 day is put equal to 1000 yrs........but keep in mind we are talking about a place (in spacetime) somewhere in the universe where this (= the ascension) will take place, it does not say anything about how Allah perceives time...it only deals about some place, where time will be 1000-yrs times slower than now and that IS possible physically. But it does not say anything about Allah measuring one day or so. It says on such a day we will ascend unto Him, it does not say how the time measurement will be once we’re ascended unto Him. Furthermore see also 70:4 where 1 day is suddenly 50000 yrs.........this is more of a indication that “for Allah 1 day can be 1000 yrs or equally well 50000 yrs”.....*this can only be if for him time does NOT exist. *
So no use saying 1 day for us is 1000 yrs for him so the Day of Judgement will be in 1500 yrs....it could equally well be 1,5 x 50000 = 75000 yrs
THIS MIGHT be a bit off topic but u can get the speed of light from these verses. if u guys want i can find the link for u, it's a bit long but pretty cool. ne ways back to the subject, Nescio u have some pretty interesting points. but lets not forget that whatever Allah thalla has said to us in the Quran he has said it in a way so that we humans can understand it. this whole light/time thing is made up by us humans, these r our concepts made up by us. and Allah made that light with which we r judging time. now as true as they might be maybe they don't apply to Allah. we can not give Allah human trades. lets stick with the info he has gave us, cuz thats all we r gonna understand. if Allah is saying that his one day is our 1000, than it must be so. where science and Islam don't agree, science is not the one to believe. don't know if ur gonna understand my point, it's kinda hard to explain, but just my two cents. ;)
Nesco Bhai,
AOA, First of all and thank you for the spilt discussion for this topic. Secondly, you have brought some interesting points that made me look up into the dept of these concenrend Ayaaths.
Nesco Bhai, there are certain things in Quran that sometimes it is very hard for a typical reader to understand them. Particually these verses of Quran. Which indeed are categorized as some of the contradicting verses. One should always be very careful when to translate Quran from their prespective as it might lead other readers to believe it. I have found a Tafseer for your above concerned verses. Here is the link
Below i will quote some of it :
**
and
**
So, Nesco bahi, there are a lot more discussions like this about this specific top that we can go on and on. I do understand your point of view that only Allah. s.w.t knows the best about judgment day. Agreed no doubt about that, i am with you on that fully. But, when it comes to contradictions like this in Quran one should always be very careful before touching it without any knowledge in hands. I didn’t have any of it before i started this discussion but now I do a little bit. There are a lot of other contradictions which are not actually contradictions, but are raised in loud voice by non-Muslims. They are indeed tackeld and answered by many scholars in the light of Hadiath and other sources.
as you rightly put forward in 70:4 there is no specific mention about whose perspective this is. The question rises why hasn’t it been specified??? one anser -as in ur post- that it might be from the perspective of the angels and the inspiration, but for the same money the interpretation might be that it’s from the perspective of humans.
Interesting also to see that for example Mohammad Asad uses the tafseer which i’ve put forward: that 1000 and 50000 are mere numbers to indicate that time doesn’t exist for Allah.
Nevertheless, a few questions remain: - which method does Allah use to measure ‘his’ time, because he ought to be above any Time, and therefore can’t say anything about a day or so.
And also the point remains that the 1day=1000yrs is the time-frame which is present on the place where the Day will take place, not of Allah.
finally, Time is not an absolute something. with the scientific advances of nowadays it should be possible within 100 yrs or so to have some sort of space-time-travel: alas, one day for a certain human being might be 3 days for someone else. Even today, the Russian astronaut who has stayed more than 1 year in space, it has been calculated that he his time went 1/50th of a second slower than the rest of us. So even if 1 day is 1000 yrs: from the perspective of which human is it??
[QUOTE] Originally posted by SalmanNY: *
Anwaar bahi thora eloborate tou ker dein...
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yaar i wanted to ask that IF ALLAH is saying: "what **you* reckon" means that He is obviously talking to us, right? then what we reckon are the years relative to this world .. Is it so hard to understand or is it too much rocket science involved so will I have to post articles too?
of course, it for 'what we reckon'...but even among humans in time to come i'm sure time-measurements will differ. see point 3 of my previous post.
Furthermore, the Qur'an is an universal book, it should be applicable to anyone anywhere in the universe......so why is this time-frame only applicable to the earth?
And they will bid thee hasten on the Doom, and Allah faileth not His promise, but lo! a Day with Allah is as a thousand years of what ye reckon.
so can’t post lengthy replies.. just what I find in Quran and/or hadith :flower1: