this is a tough topic with two very heated sides. We have a small community of mexicans nearby who live in crowded and poor conditions. They recently sued our town - and won! - for harassment by police, they were then given a meeting area in a local church where they have a manager who assigns work as it comes in.
I went in there to see what it was all about, we have a bathroom in desperate need of help, I started working on it but it needs more help than I can give it. Those poor people are SO desperate for work. I hired a guy who speaks some english and is working his butt off in my bathroom, doing a SMASHING job - at a fraction of the cost it would have been if I’d hired a contractor or professional painter.
It was sad to see how very many of them there are and how willing to work. And they work their tails off. And the guy I hired, when I ordered pizza for us all and invited him to join us for lunch - he was just drop-jawed in shock that someone would be so kind.
I know that illegal immigration is a huge problem here. Maybe I’m making things worse by hiring one. YET…it just works so well for him and for us.
Illegal immigration is a problem, but authorities are aware of that and offcials most of the times, look the other way when they see an illegal immigrant.
The reason is, illegal immigrants are willing to do those jobs whose rates are so low, or jobs are so inisgnificant, that any legal person, who can otherwise collect unemployement benefits, would never touch those jobs.
Illegal immigrants dont form unions, they dont demand benefits or competitive workers compensations, and they are hard workers ... means .. they are the ideal work force for any employers.
For most of the part, they are very law abiding, cause they know that if they were reported to police, even for a petty theft job, they would be deported.
They dont file taxes, but who else would work for $4.10 per hour in USA in this day and age.
I know a bit of that cause I was aware of many illegal immigrants, or many international students working illegaly, at parking lots and gas stations, in the city where I graduated from.
Illegal workers are great (I'm talking mexicans here, not desis). They do so much for so little and they have a very positive attitude. Most of what they earn goes back to their homeland which equals a good amount of money. Its a win win situation for both of us.
sure, we dont pay them much but then everyone pays because of the load on social services, school systems, health systems.
crimes are rather high in those communities as well.
I am all for a guest worker program which allows law abiding and hard working ppl to come in and work in areas that need help, pay taxes, earn living wages etc after they go through similar background checks as legal immigrants do, and the hoops that legal immigrants have to jumpo through whether it is a relative petition or work sponsorship.
I have dealt with so many illegal immigrant workers from Mexico and other South American countries like Guatemala, Ecuador etc. for years. I have found like 80% of them to be really good hard working people while 15-18 % lazy guys and 2-5% or less to be opportunists and/or criminals.
I have dealt with all kind of guys and those who I liked as they were hard working, I kept them on the roll for years and those who were lazy bums were kicked out and then some of them came back to steal from my work place.
Overall I would say, they are more hard working than our own desi people.
I understand and agree with the social support costs for illegals, I mean I live in one of the highest taxed communities in the USA!! and it really hurts to pay as much as we do.
I place the responsibility for the problem on the current politicians and I think it is their respnsibility to address the issue. And I do support the politicians who SAY that they will work on it.
Yet, I have this small community here of illegals. They have suffered at the hands of local law enforcement and snobby locals. The treatment they were subjected to and the harassment they got was so bad that our town was fined close to $1 million and had to pay the attorney fees for the illegals. And all they want is a decent days work. The crime in their area is extremely low, their housing is overcrowded and poor conditions yet very clean and maintained to a surprising degree despite their poverty. I may be adding to the tax burden by hiring them but I think the solution is more in the hands of the politicians. Maybe I'm rationalizing here. But I gave this worker a wage of $350 for 11 hours of work - a pretty decent wage. I bought materials at a cost of 120 so we spent $470. To hire a professional, the job would have been $1200 and we could not have afforded it. The worker that I hired did a beautiful, professional job, took no breaks unless I told him to come out and have some food and he brought the money home to his wife and baby. He took a look around our house (which is old so there's much that could be done) and he is hopeful that we can have him return to do more. I'd hire him back in a flash and will do that as we can afford.
Anyway, till the laws and regulations change, I'm still paying hefty taxes which in part support them so I might as well help them right? Wrong? I mean, yeah I could just let things go, not hire them and hope that the politicians we vote in do the right things to fix the problem. But in the meantime, they ARE here and they need to live.
They are great workers. I used to live in New Orleans when Hurricane Katrina struck the region. The prices of labor went sky rocketing because of shortage of skilled labor. Guess who came to the rescue? Yep, the immigrants (not sure whether legal or illegal) from South American countries came to build the community when the American Citizens were busy ignoring the region and looting people as well as ripping them off by charging extremely high prices. At first we hired a white worker (neighbor's BIL) and he took $7K and fled. All together, he collected about $100K from **JUST OUR **neighborhood and ran away. That's when a few Hispanics came in the neighborhood and people took them as royals. We payed them pretty good just to appreciate their help and they were happy too. Their work was fantastic and they LISTENED when we pointed out a problem and instead of giving attitude as American workers, they actually fixed the problem.
As TLK said, there would be no illegal worker in the US if the government wanted to get rid of them, but the government does not want to get rid of them because they helping the economy as well.
Anyway, till the laws and regulations change, I'm still paying hefty taxes which in part support them so I might as well help them right? Wrong? I mean, yeah I could just let things go, not hire them and hope that the politicians we vote in do the right things to fix the problem. But in the meantime, they ARE here and they need to live.
a couple of issues.
The difference is that majority of people do not give these workers enough money to live well on. it sorta works out for these people because the they are not paying taxes so its all take home.
Think about how it impact a legal contractor who can not match his prices to these people because he has the tax burden. If he has legal workers and has to pay for insurance, payroll taxes etc his costs go up even more. He simply can not compete on price.
illegals are here and need to live but so are legal immigrants and citizens, and they need to live too.
When we give our business to illegals it is encouraging more people to come in, because they know they will get work on the side. The problem can not solely be blamed on govt and politicians.
we dont go out buying pot until politicians fix the drug trafficking problem :)
yeah pay taxes so that government can use that money to wage illegal wars, go on idiotic spending sprees without keeping track of any/all spendings, but cut back on domestic spendings…medicare, education etc. perfect world. everyone happy
Wow..I am not sure how you’re connecting the war to the illegal immigration issue. Illegal immigration is a legal issue that needs to be resolved.
In my opinion, despite the ‘cheap labor’ and ‘hard worker’ arguments, these individuals are breaking U.S law-- the same law that citizens and legal immigrants have to follow. To highlight their positive attributes is like saying the jailed criminals are good because they record books for the blind, while ignoring the crime that landed them in the joint in the first place.
To those who make the argument that we should legalize them, since they are already here: I am going to make a shift my career to become a coyote, I hear good $$s can be made and no guilt either…because you folks will eventually ‘legalize’ them anyways.
X2 and others....I DO see your points and I live them - in higher taxes, in seeing these families get services even though they (well at least the parents) are illegals. I get it, I get that I may be making the problem worse - but only in some ways. In other ways, I give an honest days pay for an honest day's labor and they get to eat. Rather than turn to a life of crime, yeah? So the whole system is really pretty broken here and other than getting the politicians to change the rules, regulations and laws, what else can be done? I mean, if they dont get work, they still need to live, eat and feed their families. They WANT to work and when they do, they can be at least on the fringes of society. I SO feel for them, it was so heartbreaking to walk in to their new "worker's center" and have like 15 guys flock around me all telling me to hire THEM. The fact is that they are HERE. I guess they could all get deported back from whence they came and maybe therin lies the answer. But they're here cause they want to work and live a better life than what they had and they are ABLE to. Able to get here. Able to get the work even if its only one day every week or two. But even THAT is better than where they came from yeah? HECK, I think if I were in their shoes, I'd try to "make a break for it" and run for the border so that I could make a better life for my family. Not talking about the difference between HD-TV and regular TV here, we're talking about the difference of eating corn all week or having meat maybe once a week and being able to send money home to those who couldnt make the break for the border.
So what to do? How to handle it? THere are SOO very many of them here. All wanting to pay taxes, be good citizens, all wanting desperately to be good contributors to the US of a. Because what WE see as the worst of things, they see as opportunity. In OUR little community anyway (note, my sister lived in an area where the illegals were nothing but trouble) so I do see both sides. Yet I DONT see a good solution here to the issue of what to do with illegals in the country. You cant say "Just dont hire them" I will NOT see my neighbors starve. And there will always be those (like me lol) who hire them cause they need and want the work and we could not afford to have it done by legal contractors. If the problem were addressed at a higher level so that cooperation would make things better then I;m all for it. But in the current situation, all I see are families wanting to work, they work hard and do beautiful work and they do not have the overhead that "real" companies have. I dont blame them for wanting better for their families and "going for it" even IF they are breaking the law. In their shoes, I just might do that myself. So really and truly, the fault is not theirs, but rather ours in the policies and procedures that we have in place yeah? Or no? And what to do about the policies?
You know at the end of the day, it comes down to our own needs and benefits. I would hire an illegal worker only if I see any benefit in it. But if I can find a worker who is charging the same amount as these illegal workers, I don't think I would opt for him/her.
I do agree with X2 on the issues that legal licensed contractor are suffering because of illegal workers. I have been a general contractor myself and can tell you the impact I have seen from these illegal workers or handymen. A handyman or an illegal worker is more interested to make his daily wage ranging from $100-$200 whereas a general contractor has other liabilities in terms of supervision, insurances, taxes etc. So there is no way to compete un-licensed contractors. But then, for bigger jobs these unlicensed contractors/workers can't compete with licensed contractors.
At the same time, I have hired them too and have saved on my payroll. I have paid them ranging from $8 an hour to $25 an hour depending on their skill set. I did realize eventually that it was not all that beneficial to hire illegal workers whom I had to pay cash. I hard hard time to justify $300K cash I paid them in terms of my business expenses. So I ended up paying hefty taxes on that amount.
So in my conclusion, we all generally make decisions based on our personal benefits to the bigger extent. Rarely we go out of our way to help out others at the material cost we may encounter.
like you I want the best for my neighbours too. Some of them are struggling in running their painting, contracting, landscaping businesses because they hire legal workers and provide them and their kids insurance and living wages.
These ppl lose jobs because their companies shut down or if they are independent, they can't afford to compete with illegal workers because right off the Bat they have to cover taxes atleast. So when these ppl are in unemployment lines and getting food vouchers that bothers me as well. Our politicians have not done what is needed but our definition of victims need to be broader
The illegals are not the only victims here. We are punishing law abiding business owners and workers. I am looking at all sides of the issue here.
There are no easy answers here that much we can agree on.
an interesting aside to this whole issue....This mexican worker I hired recommended a place for me to buy the materials. It was within walking distance of my house and was a huge warehouse with amazingly low prices, put even Home Depot to shame. The place does not advertise because they do just fine without paying that overhead as the owner told me. He went on to tell me that he can undercut ANYones prices because he doesnt use computers for inventory. We had a very bad flood in our area last year and he was one of the only businesses in the area to keep operating because all he needed to keep his business in line was flashlights. The grocery stores and Home Depots all needed their scanner-inventory systems so they shut down during that time. And because he uses his tried-and-true manual system, each purchase costs him about 12 cents he told me. If he used the fancy scanner-systems that Home-Depot and grocery stores use, it would cost him upward of 2 dollars per. I LIKE people like him. Meantime, what to do about the illegals? I have read about all the bad they can do, I have seen all the good"they can do. They are HERE, in great numbers and I'd rather see them somewhat gainfully employed than not at all and resorting to less-than-legal means of day-to-day living on TOP of less-than-legal status here.
The problem is NOT whether I as a lone person hire one of them, its much more - how to address the whole issue of all of them being here in the first place, what to do with them, how to handle the whole thing and how to prevent its spread.
