Dating - taboo; acceptale; who really cares?

Lifestyle Relationships
1

Now Dating is seen as a taboo in our society in Islam due to the fact that it could lead to pre-martial sex. Though it doesn’t all the time. Recently I do believe there has been a trend in many nations in Europe and in the US that sex is not required while dating.

Now I personally see dating or having a girlfriend as a intellectual, emotional and to many others (not me) a physical interaction. A girlfriend fulfills the role and responsibility a wife plays in the future. Everybody needs a companion, and a girlfriend is one for a short period of time, though it can be for longer.

I have dated women, that incldues muslims. A total of 3 women. However before i dated the muslim girl, i would speak to her parents about it. If they did not agree will that was the end of it for me. However some how that was never occured. And yes there was not physical contact whatsoever with the muslim women.

Thus the question should be asked, if you have a girlfriend, does it really mean that sex has to an issue? Second could it not be possible to date in accordance with our (pakistani) cultural values?

2

Islam does not allow this dating thing....
its totally immoral....
there's no good to it....

and dont try to defend ur wrong actions....
u can simply put it as "i want to date and i will - regardless of what Islam says"....
that will sound much better and reflect ur intentions more clearly....

but when u do that remember that if u dont want to follow what Islam says, u r not a Muslim so dont call urself one....

"Our Lord! forgive us our sins and anything we may have done that transgressed our duty; establish our feet firmly and help us against those that resist faith." **Quran(3:147)

3

dating doesn't imply sex.

girlfriend usually does... or she's just a friend.

This Space For Rent

4

I choose to differ my friend PA, at least in here, it does. Mind you, its not the truth i am speaking about but that’s the perception that the general public carry.

Talk about dating with any body here and the next question that pops up is pretty obvious.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Kambakht Ishq!

5

hmm in here is gupshup??

I live in a culture where dating is very much a norm, and it sure doesn't always imply s*x. It's an evening/afternoon/morning spent with a member of the opposite s*x (or the same s*x if you swing that way) to explore a not-so-platonic relationship.

I'm sure guppies who are familiar with this culture recognize the fact that there can be dating without necessarily having s*x.

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[This message has been edited by PakistaniAbroad (edited February 08, 2002).]

6

What does the word "dating" imply? I have never liked the word. To me it implies an exclusive relationship based on certain expectations.

Maybe we should look at a variety of social activities... Is it just as suspicious if a group of people get together? Meeting in public places? I know a number of people who have met at, say family weddings, had a chance to get to know each other albeit briefly, kept in touch by letter or phone and managed to see each other at family occasions and in the presence of other people and ended up marrying each other. So were they dating? was it an "arranged" marriage? you tell me...

7

Ms. Shirin that depends really on what culture you grew up in. According to many westerners that are not dating. But I believe from the Pakistani cultural perspective it is. Dating has many pre-defined concepts attached to it. One is the notion of pre-martial "commitment" to the other. This however does not happen in all cases.

Dating does not mean PDA, or you making out all the time. It is implied that is what is to happen due to actions of others. However we do not need to follow others, and we certainly can find a perspective and angle from where it could be deemed acceptable.

Mr. Armughal, lets please stick to the topic and let Allah judge my actions, not another mortal being. Now from what I understand about Islam, the sole concept of pre-martial commitment is why dating is not allowed in Islam. Are there any other reasons why Dating is not allowed?

If it is truly the fact that pre-martial commitment is the sole reason why dating is not allowed. Then I do believe I have done nothing wrong.

I will be deeply interested in what other reasons Islam prohibits dating.

Mr./Ms. PakistaniAbroad, well said, where the concept of dating is the norm it certainly does not mean such a commitment is the norm, or you have to do it on your first date.

Mr./Ms.Khanzada, why was this room created then? To my knowledge to discuss taboo subjects and shed some light on why they are taboo - wrongly or rightly that is for the individual to judge. If we can't discuss a subject openly due to what the majority think, why even have this forum?

8

Nope. Karachi.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Read on…

**

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

well written…please keep reading…

**

Bingo. Damn! I envy you since i have not been blessed with a meliflous tongue like yours…but i think this is the VERY reason why dating implies sex IN here (Karachi in particular, but IMHO can be applied to whole of Pakistan if that’s not a sweeping generalization). You know what, you just said you live in such a culture where this thing is pretty accepted as it is. In here, it is not (i am sure you buy that, dont you?)-i mean dating and all in themselves are considered taboo to talk about in public. That’s precisely why, in my earlier point i said that this is the perception that the general public carry and not necessarily the truth.

To summarize and drive home the point, what i mean is that since dating is not so common in Pakistan, so lot of misconceptions seem to be floating about it in the minds of people here. That’s why given my culture here, i seem to subscribe to the point that ‘Dating IMPLIES sex’ (bacause that’s a relative thing and may or may not imply so) but not to the point that ‘Dating MEANS sex’(because that always may not be the case)

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

I hope i way able to convey my point here.

peace,

Kambakht Ishq!

[This message has been edited by Khanzada (edited February 09, 2002).]

9

[quote]
Originally posted by IB:
Mr./Ms.Khanzada, why was this room created then? To my knowledge to discuss taboo subjects and shed some light on why they are taboo - wrongly or rightly that is for the individual to judge. If we can't discuss a subject openly due to what the majority think, why even have this forum?
[/quote]

Its Mr. (for your future reference). Please read my reply above.

Just to clarify, i am fully with PA and you on the topic, however as indicated in my response above as well, IMPLIES is interpreted differently than MEANS.

Implications may differ from one culture to another..and hence my response above.

peace,

Kambakht Ishq!

10

well, i’ve heard different stories, islamically. Some say dating is allowed, but it must be supervised by an elder or family member. Some say that dating is allowed after engagement to allow the couple to get to know each other. Some say that group dating is only allowed - where u go out with your special someone in a group setting of friends without any intention of sexual contact. Either way you cut the cake, relationships of the romantic sort are not permitted when that relation is an excuse for pre-marital sexual-themed contact. In other words, no kissing, no touching, no humping, no frenching, no oral, no anal, no holding hands, etc etc. Some of the above isn’t allowed during marriage as well. And lets face it, if a couple is dating, there will be valentine hugs and kisses , holding hands, etc etc.

From my limited knowledge , i think dating is also prohibited becuz it takes out from you being a productive member of society. Dating is addictive and you’ll find yourself at the job thinking of him/her.

From all the things i’ve heard about dating, i’ve never heard nething being prohibited when it comes to simple love. That is feelings. No physical contact. Just feelings. I’ve only heard that your feelings are accepted by Allah when you’re feeling for that person with other things in mind besides the way they look. The oh-she’s-so-fine syndrome doesn’t work with the Big Guy i think. You wanna fall in love? Look at personality, piety, etc.

As for dating, well, to avoid getting yourself punished for something you though was okay, how about just being friends with the chic. Communicating with her as a friend. etc etc. That always seemed to me to be the best way of getting to know someone your interested. This way there are no promises, no commitments and no heartbreaks and if you dont like each other to a point of romance - you dont need to end up being enemies over it. Just continue being friends.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

11

I was sharing some views with my roommate at University and he showed me a saying by Sofi Barakat Ali, a well known saint in Pakistan, Punjab area from Dar-ul-ahsan, where he said, “even thought the teacher is Hassan Bassary (a very well known poise saint among sofia karam), the student is Rabia Bassary (again a very well known poise woman among sofia karam), the lesson is Qur’an and the school is Makkah, there is still a chance of evil deed to take place.”

12

This is not the forum for religious discussion, and I am not a religious scholar, so I cannot say anything about the religious advice that has been given.

But I do not believe that people are evil, or that love and sex are evil, or that evil will happen if men and women are together.

I do think that too many external rules and repression can create the exact opposite of wha they aim to do.

It seems to me that we have arrived at the approach that women are the cause of sexual misconduct so they have to be covered and segregated. It makes very angry because I would much prefer it if there has to be seclusion that men are well covered and segrgated and woimen are allowed to go out free. Yes, yes, I know all the Islamic
reasoning and it doesn't convince me. As far as I'm concerned this so called logic is nothing but people using Islam to legitimise their own insecurities.

Wherever you are, however repressive the rules, people do not always abide by them.
I much prefer the approach of trust, giving responsibility to a person for the consequences of his or her own actions. I much prefer freedom to make my own mistakes. The trouble is that inculcating a sense of responsibility in people is complicated and takes time, something that few people seem inclined to invest in.

Sorry, but this busines really makes me angry. My husband works in places where there are women some dressed in a really revealing fashion. I meet men often, but the situation is clear, social, above board. If you learn how to behave in various situiations you will be able to do so; on teh other hand if you are used to segregation and are filled with ideas of how tempting and evil women are then what do you think happens when there is a chance to be together???? Of course it must be the fault of those wicked women who socialise with men, no?????

13

[quote]
Originally posted by Shirin:
This is not the forum for religious discussion, and I am not a religious scholar, so I cannot say anything about the religious advice that has been given.
[/quote]

I defiantly know this is not a religious forum and no one try to bring religion in the discussion. You just seem to create disputes from nowhere. There was no religious advice given in my post, All I did was to re-quote a saying from a scholar which happen to be a sofi. Good/bad quotes from any one do not mean those are religious orders or advices.

[quote]
But I do not believe that people are evil, or that love and sex are evil, or that evil will happen if men and women are together.
[/quote]

Your believes good for you... Not for us though...

[quote]
I do think that too many external rules and repression can create the exact opposite of wha they aim to do.
[/quote]

If you have right to put your PERSONAL thought, then why not others. You took no time to label others just because other person's thought do not match to yours?

[quote]
It seems to me that we have arrived at the approach that womenare the cause of sexual misconduct so they have to be covered and segregated.
[/quote]

No one said women are the only cause of any thing, you are making things up....We love women and go on with them as they are the most precious thing in our lives…
Stop making thing up from nowhere…………

[quote]
It makes very angry because I would much prefer it if there has to be seclusion that men are well covered and segrgated and woimen are allowed to go out free. Yes, yes,
[/quote]

Who is advocating any gender here, this was a light discussion talking about a western practice about dating and you have made the stories out of this which are coming out your personal minds.

[quote]
I know all the Islamic reasoning and it doesn't convince me. As far as I'm concerned this so called logic is nothing but people using Islam to legitimise their own insecurities.
[/quote]

Good for you if you know all Islamic reasonings, But I do not claim to know any thing, and I did not put myself in a position to give any advice to any one. Look under the table, there might be some one esle......

[quote]
Wherever you are, however repressive the rules, people do not always abide by them. I much prefer the approach of trust, giving responsibility to a person for the consequences of his or her own actions. I much prefer freedom to make my own mistakes.
[/quote]

who says your Personal preferences are good for every one else out there?

[quote]
Sorry, but this busines really makes me angry. My husband works in places where there are women some dressed in a really revealing fashion. I meet men often, but the situation is clear, social, above board. If you learn how to behave in various situiations you will be able to do so; on teh other hand if you are used to segregation and are filled with ideas of how tempting and evil women are then what do you think happens when there is a chance to be together???? Of course it must be the fault of those wicked women who socialise with men, no?????
[/quote]

You just seem to be angry due to your own circumstances, Try to understand others the same way you want others to understand you................it is so easy and let this thread be a light discussion about dating and stuff, do not make it your personal likeness and dislike ness and do not make stories out of nothing....
Thanks

[This message has been edited by Qaasim (edited February 15, 2002).]

14

Qaasim... she is merely posting her reply on the topic and not necessarily commenting on or criticizing you. Stop feeling so important, drink a glass of cold water, and relax! :)

15

Thanks Pristine. You understood perfectly.

16

[quote]
Originally posted by Pristine:
Qaasim... she is merely posting her reply on the topic and not necessarily commenting on or criticizing you. Stop feeling so important, drink a glass of cold water, and relax! :)
[/quote]

Sorry Sir, I was not thinking of myself any important at all, I was just responding to the point where it was said that a religious advice had been given following by a long lecture. So I was responding to the lengthy lecture only.
Anyway, took your advice and I am calm now and I was calm then.

thanks again
take care,

Following is the quote again which only to describe other people's opinion about dating

[quote]
“even thought the teacher is Hassan Bassary, the student is Rabia Bassary, the lesson is Qur’an and the school is Makkah, there is still a chance of evil deeds to take place.”
[/quote]

[This message has been edited by Qaasim (edited February 15, 2002).]

17

Dating in accordance with Paki values? What are those values?

[This message has been edited by Muni (edited February 21, 2002).]