damascus ka safaid minaar,aur eesaa ki aasmaan say chalaang, 2 questions

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

a molvi told me of this hadith, that when jesus will jump down from the sky, he will land on a white minaret in the east of damascus. then the “ulema” will bring stairs to help him climb down.

it is funny, dunya kay chuppay chuppay ka naqasha ban chuka hai, i have made it SURE that there is NO such minaret in the east of damascus which is white in colour, has no stairs, and is here since the time of prophet mohammad! agar kisi ko shak ho to kisi damascus kay aadmi ko khut likh kay pooch lain! aisa koi minaar hai hee nahee!

QUESTION ONE:

my point is, jis insaan nay aasmaan say itni barri chalaang laga li, aur is ko koi chot na lagi, to usay minarat paysay uternay kay liye ulema ki stairs kyoon chahiye?

QUESTION TWO:

jub damascus ki east main aisa koi minaar hai hee nahee, jub sirray say kisi aisay minaar ka naamo nishaan hee nahee, to us becharay nay uterna kahaan hai?

2

These are the questions I don't understand. Or rather I don't understand the thinking behind these questions. Let me think... ok, here's one... "Dajjal will come and 'kufar' will be written on his forehead, which language 'll it be ?"

Why do we take these things so literally ? Quran and Hadith are not handbook of science, nor they are some sort of 'jantarees'. There are lot of metaphors and they should be obvious to most of us.

Anyway, this hadith you mentioned is from Shahih Muslim "Kitab-ul-Fitan wa ashrat as sa'h" Book 40 (number 7015). It does mention a 'white minaret' but not the 'stair' part you wrote.

Ans 1: According to that hadith, Jesus (pbuh) will descend on wings of two angels, on that minaret. After that laws of physics 'll probably apply.

Ans 2: Well, maybe I'll go and paint a minaret white. How about that huh ? Metaphors m'man... metaphors. Same as gog and magog (yaajooj/maajooj) metaphorical licking off the wall. Or who knows, maybe a white minaret may crop up. And I'll have to check, but someone told me few months back, that there is a white minaret around those parts but I didn't pay much attention as I consider Islam to be above these irrelevant banee-israel type bickerings. There are other day to day issues where I want to expand my knowledge more instead of 'hey this minaret is not white.. it's technically fawn' debates.

Allah knows best.

[This message has been edited by deepblue (edited April 06, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by deepblue (edited April 07, 1999).]

3

Deepblue wrote:

“Why do we take these things so literally ? Quran and Hadith are not handbook of science, nor they are some sort of ‘jantarees’. There are lot of metaphors and they should be obvious to most of us.”

Great!!! :):):):slight_smile:

You are one of few people who thinks that there are also some metaphors in the speech. All the others think that we should must take the literal meaning.

Great!!!

MIRZA YASIR

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4

dear deep blue!

72 sects argue that these are going to be REAL incidents, while one ONE sect believes they are matephors.

the sects which believes they are metaphors were first treated with mass killing in 1952-53, and later on , in 1974 were declared NON MUSLIMS by the supreme court of pakistan. also, the imam of ka'aba, and a group of molvis from all around the world declared in mecca, saudi arabia, that this sect is non muslim!

koi aisa aadmi bhee hai jo "musalmano" wala jawaab day sakay??

So be on watch for a day when heaven shall bring a manifest smoke
covering the people; this is a painful chastisement. 'O our lord remove thou from us, the chastisement; we are believers.' How should they have the reminder? seeing a clear Messenger has already come to them, then they turned away from him, and said,' A man, tutored, possessed!"
( the koran, verse 11-14, chapter 44, Smoke, the nuclear explosion.)

5

jewels, that was a musalmaanon wala jawaab. Let me know with which thing in that you don't agree..

Two things,
a) No offence, but like I said, the question is idiotic. I know that it might be important from your standpoint, but even considering that, the question is still idiotic. You can come up with better arguments in defence of your theory.

b) I didn't say every thing is a metaphor. But a man of average intelligence (and with a proper background knowledge either from peripheral reading or talking with people having experience in fiq'hee ilm) can discern where the Prophet (pbuh) was talking about an event that will happen and where he was talking metaphorically.

I belong to the sect which believes in resurrection of Jesus (pbuh) and his coming during the time of Dajjal (and that, he has yet to come). If someone comes up to me and talks from hadiths to prove that this isn't so, I may or may not argue depending upon what mood I am in. But I do believe that hadith books are very clear on this issue. However if someone comes up and says, "hey those hadith books are all wrong", then I won't mind and I most likely won't argue. Cause, that's a different debate.

I respect the right of others to say that my believes are wrong.

By the way, your knowledge of sects other than your own seems to be very limited. Or maybe you consider it fashionable to bash Maulvis in every sentence or two.

Anyway, enough said...

[This message has been edited by deepblue (edited April 07, 1999).]

6

dearest deepblue,

the question is idiotic
achaa?? :)jis sawal ka jawaab na bun parray woh "idiotic" ?? ;)

b) I didn't say every thing is a
metaphor. But a man of average intelligence
(and with a proper background knowledge
either from peripheral reading or talking
with people having experience in fiq'hee
ilm) can discern where the Prophet (pbuh)
was talking about an event that will happen
and where he was talking metaphorically.

this very interesting sentence leads me to two points:

1) considering you " a man of average intelligence" and having "proper background knowledge either from peripheral reading or talking with people having experience in fiq'hee ilm", i would request you make it clear which part of the above hadith is talking about REAL incidents, and which part talks about metaphors.

2) the "ulema" ( molvi nahee, "ulema" ;) ), who believe that all these incidents written above are REAL incidents, are niether "men of average intelligence" nor "proper background knowledge either from peripheral reading or talking with people having experience in fiq'hee ilm". yeh aap kay apnay alfaz thay!

aap ghaur kertay, kay yeh jo itni khamoshi hai, koi molvi is question ka koi jawaab nahee day raha, is kee kya wajah ho sakti hai.. aakhir koi baat hai jo saaray chup hain! is forum main aur bhee aalim faazil hain! kyoon koi jawaab nahee day raha? yeh baat aap sochtay to yoon na phusstay!

ab sawaal yeh hai, kay even if i suppose that when jesus will come down, no laws of physics will apply, masla yeh hai, kay jub sirray say koi minaar hai hee nahee to jesus bichara utray ga kahaan??

7

man, I hate these idiotic arguments. Admin, mujhay kahaan phasa diya aap nay ??

Anyway ....

1) That Jesus (pbuh) 'll come near the end of the world and that he hasn't come yet. Whether he lands on a minaret, dome, rooftop, or on a balcony, who knows about that ? Or do you think that Prophet (pbuh) gave the exact isometric projections of that minaar and the satellite photos ?

2) I have said before, your knowledge of sects other than your own is limited.

Two more things,
* Believe me, if I wasn't a moderator I'd probably not reply to such questions either. I told you before, these debates don't interest me at all.

  • How do you know there is not a white minaret east of Damascus ? Or does it have to be all white (no patterns ?) Or does it have to be shaped like a traditional minaret ? And even for argument's sake, if we consider that all the minarets east of Damascus are Black, what's stopping someone to raise a minaret there ? I mean, it's not as if Jesus has already come (or CNN has announced that Jesus is coming tomorrow at Larry King Live) and that we don't have a white minaret, rooftop, dome or any other landing pad, yet.

So please don't insult my intelligence or that of rest of the readership with these kind of questions.

Unless you come up with something which actually makes sense, consider this response to be my last one in this thread.

And btw, I did give you the answers right in the first reply. I don't repeat the same thing too many times.

Nuff said.

[This message has been edited by deepblue (edited April 08, 1999).]

8

Bismillahirrahman nirrahim

First of all the language used for Hazrat Eisa Alaihissalam is wrong. You should have enough manners and fear of Allah SWT to use the name of the beloved ones of Allah SWT with respect.

But anyways, the answer to the question is given in my thread "Finality of Prophethood". Where it is proved from Quran and Sunnah that Hazrat Eisa Alaihissalam will return to the World. If you cannot see those ayats and ahadiths, i am not sure if you will be able to see the white minarate of the mosque.

About the 72 sects and 1 going to jannah, if you have read that hadith even once, you will know that the condition to be one of that sect is also given there. The condition was to follow Quran and Sahaba (if i am not wrong).

If you really want to be from the one sect, than you have to follow the Quran and the ways of the Companions of Prophet SAW.

And about Ahmedis, the Ulema of the Muslim Ummah (not only in Pakistan but Sheikhs in Saudia and the other Muslim world) has a united stand that they are not Muslims.

Wallaho Alam wassalatu wassalam O ala nabiyyana Mohammed.

9

deepblue....hey, wait a sec. You got into this yourself...who told you to answer the questions?

besides...you have better than average intelligence.

10

Bismihi Ta'la
Assalam o alaikum

Having read the thread, I did not seen the "metaphorical" interpretation of the hadith. Would an Ahmadi share it with us, perhaps with some evidence from the writings of their leader, Mirza Ghulam Ahmed of Qadian.

Regards

  • Ali Abbas
11

Muzna,
I was trying to make a point, or rather introduce myself and my thoughts on such issues as a participator in this forum.

And as you know, sometimes I like giving pointers ;-) but that's a different issue.

Abbas sahib,
Since I used the word 'metaphor' too, I must say, my choice of the word 'metaphor' was a poor one when all I was trying to say was that, the white minaret doesn't have to be a very traditionally defined all white minaret structure. Having said that, things such as "kufar written on dajjal's forehead" and the likes are considered metaphors by a majority of ulemas.

Allah knows best.

12

Deepblue,

It is rather strange that first you said it was a metaphor, saying: "Why do we take these things so literally ?"

-) i argued that your ulema DO take it literal. you refused.

-) i requested you to tell me which part is a metaphor and which one, a reality. you failed to do so.

-) the you say ", I must say, my choice of the word 'metaphor' was a poor one".

and still its me, who's argument is idiotic!! as you have not been able to explain yor stand, and have been involved in making rude remarks, i would prefer to ignore you hereafter.

Dear abdullah.

thank you very much, indeed.
first you mentioned about
"About the 72 sects and 1 going to jannah, "
please clear it out that actually is talks about 73 sects and one going to heaven.( please see trimzi kitaabul eemaan)

your then post:
" And about Ahmedis, the Ulema of the Muslim Ummah (not only in Pakistan but Sheikhs in Saudia and the other Muslim world) has a united stand that they are not Muslims."

So its so very obvious!!! prophet mohammad said, 73 sects, one true and 72 false. you have yourselves made a 72:1 ratio against the ahmedis! :)
you people argue that you 72 are true and 1 is false??
thats exactly against the hadih which says, 72 are false, and 1 is true!!

thanks for pointing out the truth :)

So be on watch for a day when heaven shall bring a manifest smoke
covering the people; this is a painful chastisement. 'O our lord remove thou from us, the chastisement; we are believers.' How should they have the reminder? seeing a clear Messenger has already come to them, then they turned away from him, and said,' A man, tutored, possessed!"
( the koran, verse 11-14, chapter 44, Smoke, the nuclear explosion.)

13

jewels said,

and still its me, who's argument is idiotic!! as you have not been able to explain yor stand, and have been involved in making rude remarks, i would prefer to ignore you hereafter.<

Good decision, dear.

By the way, take a deep breath and read everything I wrote in this thread. Maybe this way you'll understand. Key is, of course, deep breath.

Nuff said and now I am definitely out of this thread.

By the way, your reply to Adbulla was again (dare I say?) idiotic. By your logic, if I come up with a sect of my own tomorrow, claiming myself as Mahdi, collect few followers and if everyone says that I am wrong, I'll be right. Note that I am not proclaiming who is Muslim and who isn't, rather pointing out how flawed your logic was.

I told Muzna, I like giving 'pointers'. You can take them anyway you want.

[This message has been edited by deepblue (edited April 16, 1999).]

14

Jewels
Do you want me to name all those groups ?
Qadianese, Ismailis, droze, etc. etc.

15

Bismihi Ta'la
Assalam o alaikum

So what is the metaphor? What is the metaphorical understanding of the pillar?

Regards

Abbas, Ali