Curious about your beliefs

Re: Curious about your beliefs

We have a creator. Everything does. The problem starts when people use religion to define the creator and call it God. Not only that, they want everyone to believe their version of the creator is the right one. Belief in creator is not the same as belief in a religious God.

Re: Curious about your beliefs

Well, that's great. We do indeed have a creator. And I understand what you mean. The way I understand Islam and adhere to the values it inspires is that religions were comprised of lifestyles derived from the holy scriptures. The scripture revealed to Moses (Peace be upon him) was right for the people of the time. Advance forward to the time of Jesus (Peace be upon him), and the scripture revealed to him was right for the people it was intended for. The problem is not necessarily that people define a religious God, but rather that we're all victims to our intellects and feel that we know best about our past, present and future; whereas, that's the farthest from the truth.

Advent of Islam has not redefined God/Creator in any way, but rather reminded humanity about the Creator, and our purpose for creation. When Quran was revealed, and many of the things it mentions were known to the people of the time especially those who were aware of scriptures before it namely Christians and Jews. Quran is filled with reference to them over and over again, and reminders of the lives of Prophets before. It is to drive home the message that there is just the one Creator, and it is that one Creator that sent messengers before, and then sent the last of them Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him, and others before him).

Defining Creator as God? Not really.

Re: Curious about your beliefs

i never understood this creator paradigm. if you want to explain away the origins of the universe by attributing it to a creator because "everything needs a creator", why stop there? who created this creator? after all, your premise is that everything needs a creator. to me this is the mental equivalent of hiding ones head in the sand/sweeping the essence of the query under the rug.

Re: Curious about your beliefs

Because everything is indeed created, even if it's by coincidence, so everything must have a creator. Even the creator must have a creator. By creator, I do not mean an actual deity or an entity. I am simply saying we have, in our entire history, never observed or found something that came from nothing. Have we? It is actually logical to think that we were created, and that could be the evolutionary process for life on earth and whatever brought life to the planet and then wherever that life came from. This is not a philosophical argument, it is a fact. In my opinion, there is no ultimate creator that created everything (which is what they call GOD)

Re: Curious about your beliefs

i can see your point, and its a viable option if you ask me, but offers no real answers in terms of what is the origin of it all either, which is okay.

my beef is with the creator paradigm being used by those pushing religion as some kind of logical argument for the existence of one supreme being. the whole "look at this complex world, it has to be the work of an intelligent one". but somehow the "intelligent one" can be accepted as not needing any creation. makes little sense.

Re: Curious about your beliefs

Don't get caught up in the petty literal dogma. There is much in Islam that's spiritually similar to practices like Buddhism and even Stoic philosophy. There is a lot in all religions that is good (regular prayer, avoiding material dependence, controlling your vices). These ideas are also talked about in philosophy.

I just choose to look at Islam as our culture's traditions in exploring said virtues.

Re: Curious about your beliefs

If I HAD to chose one religion, I'd go with Buddhism. They don't claim their religion is from 'God' or you will go to hell if you aren't a Buddhist.

Re: Curious about your beliefs

We are watching the 2013 Ramayan series. And thoroughly enjoying it. Lots of goodnlessons. Even for non believers.

Re: Curious about your beliefs

The bit about avoiding vices irks me. Why is music bad? Why are drugs bad? Why is pre-marital sex bad? What's wrong with homosexuality? The only answer religious people have for these questions is, "because the book says so."

Re: Curious about your beliefs

Ever listened to Anu Maliks music?

Re: Curious about your beliefs

Ditto. I don't really follow any religion though I do like to read and question everything that is preached now and then and have a very OPEN mind to everything. My mom would drag me to religious places (which I do appreciate and enjoyed when I was younger), but growing older has given way to discovering my own path.

I don't mind religious people but what I don't like is the blind and close-minded approach.

Re: Curious about your beliefs

I am ok with having no real answers than having made up ones. I agree with what you are saying. It doesn't make sense to me either.

Re: Curious about your beliefs

I would wager there is something cultural about the Arabs of the time differentiating themselves from the Babylonians with regards to revelry, including drinking, partying, music, the usual stuff. Is music itself evil? No. But I bet this was a cultural distinction they made. The Persians under Cyrus also looked down on the poor Babylonians for living it up.

As for drugs and what not, absolutely nothing. There are clinics in Europe that actually administer heroin in set amounts to people. Like medical prescriptions. If you want to live your life with a crutch, and most will, that's fine. But as I mentioned with regards to religion, and even philosophical schools of thought like Stoicism, a happy, content life where you are fine simply being yourself, in your circumstances, is very hard to attain. And every school of thought seems to believe that being subject to your vices is not a recipe for this.

Even from a non religious point of view, I've read several interesting pieces that humans find fulfillment through balance and hard work. Yes, in those precious few minutes when you're high nothing is better. But in a few hours, and the next day, you come down and feel like something is missing. Nature is about balance and you cannot push your body to those levels of dopamine without craving more and more. You only appreciate the good with the bad.

A good life would be a hard days work and coming home to a simple life. Even if you're an atheist you have to agree we evolved hunting and working and spending nights around the fire telling stories among the tribe. The only entertainment was the heavens. I truly believe our reward centers are wired for that kind of life. Porn, Netflix, the internet, celebrity culture - they overload our primitive brains. I'm not saying we have to give up modern life. I just look at modern society like a zoo. We should make our zoo as close to what we find naturally rewarding as possible.

Turn off the phone for a few hours. Go walk outside. Exercise. Run until you puke. Try something hard. Really hard. In the moment it won't be as fun as Reddit, or YouTube. But you'll go to bed happier.

That ended up being a lot longer. Probably should have blogged it.

Re: Curious about your beliefs

Interesting thread.
AS concluded
1-"We are created so there is creator, so some one need to create the creator.. then that creator needs a creator//"
That means this process never stops and its not a thing. Its at most illusion which seems to make sense.

2- Once I was reading a book "skeptic guide to mind" some thing like that.
Author a, a head doctor, was setting record straight about many wrong yet hip ideas about brain.
He said some thing "you are thinking about brain using brain." some thing like that.
This process has limitation.
Same way you all(above posters) are creation. So no toy can go back and measure his maker.

Suppose some one make a robot with 8 eye, in all direction, and do not put eye on top, would a toy be able to look above ??? and look at its maker.

So this idea of creator/creation put us all under strict limitation.

3- In quran, process of creation is extremely unlike any thing we human have seen.
According to quran process of creation/death etc is beyond what we consider a "process."

So if you sit back make few pots of coffee and read quran, many of interesting question you have now. would not have happened in your brains.

Re: Curious about your beliefs

The creator of the above post is hereby complimented.