Culture of Pakistan? Is it...really? Nah!

Arts & Culture Culture, Arts, Literature & Linguistics
1

We Pakistanis are so proud of our selves being Pakistanis. Not just us, every society and every group of people in every nation are proud to be part of their nation. We all have different culture, different ways of life, etc.[some of us “think” we do] We all regard our selves as “free-people,” free-people meaning, we are “free” as part of our nation as a whole and “free” of other social and cultural heldbacks.

Others might be free of that social and culture heldback, but are we Pakistanis free of such thing? Clearly the answer is, NO!

We call our selves Pakistanis, but we do nothing that represents Pakistan, except for the name Pakistan its self! We call our selves Muslims and Pakistanis, yet we do most of the customs and rituals which belong to and are solely part of Hindu and indian culture. It seems as if, Pakistan has become or already is a “modified-version-of-Hinduism.” The only difference we have is that hindus have many gods and we have only one God. We chose to follow the orders of their gods since we follow their ways of life. And have made our one God a “show-off” object and a dividing line between them and our selves.

Who are we trying to fool here, our own one God, our selves or hindus?

Hindu culture has infiltrated our homes and we so called “muslims” are inclining and made to like it as part of our own culture, if not religion!!!
If you as a kid in Pakistan about certain Indian movies, he/she will know every single detail about it. He/She will name every member of movie cast with their biographies. - At the same time if you ask him/her about his religious background and why is he/she Muslim, he/she will have no clue of what you’re talking about! <pretty sad, isn’t it?>

***Are we really reasoning and living like a Pakistani-Muslims in a logical way? ***

I don’t think we are free or free of being Pakistanis who’s culture is a “modified-branch” of hindu culture! A free man is one who lives under guidence of reason, who is not led by fear, but who directly desires that which is good, in other words, who strives to act, to live, and to preserve his being on basis of seeking his own true self, so he maybe considered a different human being, culturaly as well as religiously.

Does Pakistan have its own culture, other than mixture of hindu/indian cultures?

I think we do. We are Muslims, Islam is a total way of life and totally a culture all by its self in a class of its own, but in reality, we are hesitant to follow it and to preserve it and to make it a part of our lives, no wonder westerns think of us(india and pakistan) as “same” group of people.

What do you think? Let your most inner thoughts come out, and let the reality speak for its self.

PS: Sabah, this time I have a hard-copy of this post.

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Take it easy…

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V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

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well said bro..

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it sure is a sad situation..i agree that our ppl know more abt indian culturez than their own pakistani culture…i’ve notice that our ppl really don’t feel comfortable when they represent themselvez as pakistani..

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i dunno y!!??..

dJ_ArSH
pakbeat

ik nazer ke liey umer bher..umer bher ke liey ik nazer..

3

Exactly, most of us would rather speak english than speak our native langues such as Punjabi or Urdu. One of my class-fellows, he was from Mir-pur, Pakistan and I know they speak very good punjabi and urdu, but he use to talk to other in english most of the times; clearly to hide his ethnicity.

What happened to other Pakistanis? Can’t write anything out of shame…perhaps?

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Take it easy!

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V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

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Claps

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A very very and very good post Watcher.

True, very true what you have said, unfortunately only a few of us realize what really matters and what really is wrong with Pakistan, but the majority…..well you know better.

There is so much energy and blood wasted on this Indian and Pakistan scenario because of the hate, but still every night in almost every Pakistani house an Indian movie is played and watched. I have also heard that people in Pakistan are wearing mangansuter (that marriage necklace thingy for married Hindu females) as fashion? That’s so ridiculous

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!!! I mean look at it, girls getting sexually abused in concerts in a Muslim country? It’s a shame!

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Specially so called these Modern Muslims who have invented their own Islam, to have their ways with it. They need to be shot in the head again and again and again and again again again again till the charger is emptied….

sorry if i got carried away…

We are the Taleban! Resistance is Futile!

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Youngbrat!

We fought for Pakistan, following and making Pakistani/Islamic culture part of our daily life shouldn’t be as hard! Most of the people are ignorent of the facts, they “think” they can change Islam and mold in the way they want it and in way it suits them. Same goes for Pakistani culture, they think they can mold it here and there and add some things from hindu culture and subtract some from our own and we’ll be happy. We watch their movies daily, which is pretty sad. We hate them, we have build atom bombs because of our competetion to destroy them yet we follow their ways of life and their rituals and their foot steps.

Look at stupid Pakistanis girls, who die even when you mention names of India movie stars. How stupid can we get? They live in a dreamy world and imaginery “dunniya” when reality striks them from all corners they remain as dumb as before and cannot deal with the situation!

Wake up Pakistanio, they are giving you a “ideaological-shots” wake up there is still some time left!

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

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U GOT THAT RIGHT.... Truely i think we should WAKE-UP. I cant bleave that we are doing things like that. Y is this hapning? I think cuz we r forgetting who we are and trying to get too mordren or i would have protend that we are mordern. Its a sham for us but its is not looked upon as sham for most PK people. I hope a leader would drive us back which will talk a time to get cuz our leaders are corrupt rite now. H0PE full a good one will come...

inshallah

Aslam-O-Alikum
Fair to All.

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Watcher dear told you to be good if you decide to re-post this

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Anyway, here we go.

First explain to me the word culture, please.

Is there or should there be a difference between religion and culture? Kindly keep in mind all the non-Muslims we have in Pak

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How many different cultures have effected ‘hindu culture’? Kindly mention their religion as well

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We call our selves Pakistanis, but we do nothing that represents Pakistan, except for the name Pakistan its self!<<

What represents Pakistan?
Plz define Pak culture.

We call our selves Muslims and Pakistanis,
yet we do most of the customs and rituals which belong to and are solely part of Hindu and indian culture. <<

Explain the relationship between religion and culture. Could I follow Hindu culture and still be Muslim, I assume by hindu you mean Indian, or else this question is not valid? Kindly note that we have Europeans etc how have converted to Islam they still follow their nations culture.

Does Pakistan have its own culture, other than mixture of hindu/indian cultures? <<

What does it mean to have a culture of your own, also how do you ‘create’ a new culture?

We are Muslims, Islam is a total way of life and totally a culture all by its self in a class of its own, but in reality, we are hesitant to follow it and to preserve it and to make it a part of our lives, no wonder westerns think of us(india and pakistan) as “same” group of people. <<

Chanda you could say this simple thing without comparing us with others, and offending our culture!

More when I get some answers from you dear, you don’t have to answer by the way, I’ll understand.

Hmmm hard copy, what if I dunn believe you, may I try

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[This message has been edited by sabah (edited November 20, 2000).]

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great post watcher…i wana say something but naa i might offend the innocent…so better keep it to my self…laterzzz keep it up!!!

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Jaagtey rehna…merey pe na rehna :wink:

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Dear Sabah,

I will answer don’t you worry dear, but tomorow inshallah.

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V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

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[quote]
Look at stupid Pakistanis girls, who die even when you mention names of India movie stars. How stupid can we get? They live in a dreamy world and imaginery "dunniya" when reality striks them from all corners they remain as dumb as before and cannot deal with the situation!
[/quote]

Now let's not forget stupid Pakistani guys either (don't generalize btw).

Who says nothing is impossible? I've been doing nothing all my life!

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Sabah, my post was solely towards Pakistani MUSLIMS copying hindu traditions and rituals. We as Muslims, should go be more smart to practice our own Islamic traditions and not copy our enemies and enemies of our Religion. I don’t think Muslims should put “culture” before their religion.

Muslims did rule India for over 1000 years, but I see Hinduism having more effect of Muslims of Pakistan and they copying Hindus, rather than we effecting them. What ever effect Islam had on Hinduism, is not visible except for their hate towards us has been increased.

Islam/Muslims represent Islam.

Saying “Indian” includes the Muslims living in India, so I would prefer if you use word such as Hindu. As I said, we are Muslims, our culture, our religion and our lifestyle should be Islamic. If you have slight knowledge of Islam with regards to Quran and other aspects of it, you would even consider following or having a lifestyle other than your own. What is the good in abandoning your own religion and going by some other fantasy religion, which has extravagant hate towards you?

[You repeated some questions more than once…]

No one suggested a “new” culture, we already have a our religion Islam, which is a culture, a religion, a lifestyle, a way of life in a class of its own.

Offensive? Truth is offensive dear, always(suach karwaa hotta hei). So, get use to it and make your self strong enough to face the truth, when it hits ya. Muslims of Pakistan do copy Hinduism. Muslim of Pakistan pay money to hindus to have other Muslim brothers and sister to be killed in Kashmir. Muslims of Pakistan, do buy their filthly-standardized movies.

Instead of making them copy us, we are copying them. Are we so that low?

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Yes, I have a hard copy, but I suggest you leave the post alone. PLEASE…

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Hum Sa ho to samney ayey, I apologize. Yes guys and gals most of them.

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Take it easy!

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

12

Watcher basically you are trying to tell me that we should not have a culture as such, religion is and should be enough right? My question to this is – why do we have to compare us with others, by insulting them or our selves to come to this conclusion? And If Islam does have a culture how come we have failed to follow it? Hopefully not because of Hinduism or any other religion. [Kindly note that I haven’t said anything about whether we should or shouldn’t follow Islam]

Whatever effect Islam had on Hinduism is not visible except for their hate towards us has been increased. <<
Dunno the Indian culture that well, so can’t say that none of Indian traditions have roots in Islam. Someone once said, he was prolly teasing Indians that they didn’t bath, Indians I mean, and Muslims taught them that. Anyway, I’ve read about Islam’s effect on Hinduism, lekin I still don’t know enough to pass judgements.

. If you have slight knowledge of Islam with regards to Quran and other aspects of it, you would even consider following or having a lifestyle other than your own. What is the good in abandoning your own religion and going by some other fantasy religion, which has extravagant hate towards you? <<

Sir jee, don’t jump between religion and culture, as you probably know these are two very different things. And lets not talk about what I prefer – or any fantasy religion *. I guess if we stick with your own original topic, I don’t have to talk about what’s good and bad about religions. By following some aspects of another culture you’re not exactly converting to that culture. Still I suggest you explain to me what you think culture means.

No one suggested a “new” culture, we already have a our religion Islam, which is a culture, a religion, a lifestyle, a way of life in a class of its own. <<

No arguments at all – However, I would be so khush if you could explain to me how a culture is formed? What factors are imported? Like Ppl in Pak eat ‘Roti’ that’s our culture, so why roti, why not bread? And why does a Muslim born or converted in the west eat bread and not roti? [Nope me not dumb, and I’m very serious

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Truth is offensive dear, always(suach karwaa hotta hei). <<

Nope there is a clear difference between truth and offence beta jee – you’re telling me that some cultural history with over 5000 years is nothing? Mind honey Indian or Hindu culture has been influenced by many different Muslim nations, not just the Mughals.

So, get use to it and make your self strong enough to face the truth, when it hits ya. <<

Hmmm wut truth baba? In what way should I make me little self stronger and face what truth about which reality? In other words what am I doing wrong haiN?

Muslims of Pakistan do copy Hinduism. <<

Yep, we’ve started going to mandirs now! I love rakhi by the way

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Muslim of Pakistan pay money to Hindus to have other Muslim brothers and sister to be killed in Kashmir. <<
HaiN – and I thought we were poor ppl, can we really afford to pay others to kill us. I must say this is low act, at least that we should be able to do by our selves, fazool meiN terrorist khelwate haiN huh!

Btw. Did you mean by buying their products? Try conveying same message and at the same time be a lil more ‘political correct’ and I’ll agree.

Instead of making them copy us, we are copying them. Are we so that low? <<
We should not ‘make’ others do anything, try being good example, like when you write a reply to me, lemme see how good you can cover your words. See no one listens to you, if you insult them, use other tactics – use your Muslim culture sir, convinces ppl with love and respect!

Nice talking to you by the way

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Based on Watcher's posts we still haven't established a clear distinction between religion and culture.

He keeps suggesting that Islam provides both. But how can that be? Muslims in different parts of the world live by distinctly different cultures. The "roti" example is a good one Saba because it's simple.

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Sabah, long post.

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You and Muzna, keep on forgetting, people in the other islamic countries are Muslim, they have cultures that Islam approves of. The practices that “WE” Muslims copy from hindusim are not approved by Islam. ALlah says do not copy the disbelievers, they are your enemies.

Why do you have to copy Hindus? Why can’t you live by Islam and the culture that it offers.

I will write more in details…

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V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

15

Watcher,

You're missing the point. Culture and Religion are not one and the same.

Many things contribute to culture...including geographical location, climate, raw resources available, etc., etc.

While religion cannot be changed....culture must vary.

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Dear Sabah,

Culture and religion are different things but not very. They maybe diffferent but one cannot be without the other. I think, religion is like a big circle and the culture is another smaller circle within the religious circle. Everything a Muslim does in the “cultural-circle” has to be approved by the outter circle of Islam, which is srounding the cultural circle.

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[that is just my opinion, considering I am a Muslim.]

Now you have problem with me offending and criticising our culture and their culture. You see, my problem with Pakistani Muslims is that they copy Hindu rituals into their Islamic rituals. Which is wrong. We should not copy or imitate the people who are disbelievers in the eyes of our creator.

First I would like to point out that, I am not discussing religion here but Muslims COPYING the hindu rituals, whether those rituals are religious or cultural.

This topic is not about “CULTURE” but rather societies copying and imitating other culture. Anyway, if you insist, I will define it.

Culture literaly means set of values shared by a particular society. Do we really have values that a Muslim should have or are we copying the values of Hindu culture? Islam has its own set of values which every Muslim is perscribed to follow.

When we copy hindu rituals and their culture, we sort of become a “subculture” of hinduism not Islam. I know, you are going to say, I keep revolving around Islam and culture. As I said, Islam is a culture all by it self, but its “religious” aspects are one which are shared by all Muslims[Kalimaa, namaaz, charity, etc.] Cultural aspects maybe the cloths one wears, and foods eaten[halal foods in different tastes, bread or roti both are halal, etc.].

That answers your bread/roti dilemma?

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Now, why do we fail to follow our own religoin/culture?

Pretty deep topic. Well, many things actually, first would be not enough faith in our religion and second the influence of bad things have greater effect on humans the influence of good things. In other words, there are some limits and guidelines which our religion/culture asks us to follow, most humans are too lazy to follow the instructions and rules, lack of responsibility when it comes to holding on to your values? Maybe. Bad things are adapted quickly, and letting go of the bad things takes time and courage and self-determination, which we fail to do because of less amounts of faith present in our sroundings.

Don’t take seriously when I said: <<"So, get use to it and make your self strong enough to face the truth, when it hits ya. <<

I was talking in general, I was not refering it to you. Easy!

So, you love rakhi? There are many things we copy and will be copying…

Again, I don’t have any problem with any other “culture.” All I have problem with is people of my religion and culture copying the kafirs and imitating them. Which should not happen. I apologize if I have said anything offensive to someones with different religious/cultural values.

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View from Islamic perspective:

This post is getting really long! Anyhow something you should read.
QURAN says:
“Then We have put you (O Muhammad) on a (plain) way of (Our) commandment [like the one which We commanded Our Messengers before you (i.e. legal ways and laws of the Islâmic Monotheism)]. So follow you that (Islâmic Monotheism and its laws), and follow not the desires of those who know not.” [al-Jaathiyah 46:18]

“Were you (O Muhammad to follow their (vain) desires after the knowledge which has come to you, then you will not have any (protector) or (defender) against Allâh” [al-Ra’d 13:37]

“You (O Muhammad ) will not find any people who believe in Allâh and the Last Day, making friendship with those who oppose Allâh and His Messenger (Muhammad ), even though they were their fathers or their sons or their brothers or their kindred (people)” [al-Mujaadilah 58:22]

Hadiths:
It was reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever imitates a people is one of them.”
(Narrated by Abu Dawood, al-Libaas, 1204; Ahmad, 2/05. Shaykh al-Islam classed its isnaad as jayyid in al-Iqtidaa’, 1/042. See also al-Fataawaa, 25/133. Al-Haafiz provided corroborating evidence in al-Fath, with a mursal report whose isnaad is hasan (6/89). Al-Suyooti classed it as hasan, and al-Albaani classed it as saheeh in Jamee’ al-Saheeh, 5206).

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “Imitation generates friendship and love, and regarding them as allies in the inside, just as loving them on the inside generates imitating them on the outside.”

Shaykh al-Islam said: "The reason why the religion of Allaah and its rituals is vanishing, and kufr and sin are prevailing, is because of imitation of the kaafireen, just as the means of preserving all good is by following the ways and laws of the Prophets. " (al-Iqtidaa’, 1/413).

That is about it. I am sure you will have another points, which are always welcomed.

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Take it easy and nice talking to you as well.

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Muzna, I know, but culture doesn’t have to change in a way that you copy some one else.

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

17

Maybe it's just me but it seems all 'the watcher' really wants to talk about in this topic is how much he hates hindus. Maybe you should take care of your own little problems first before you go deciding how other people should live and think.

Also why must people like you always quote the quran etc to justify your bigotry?

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Watcher good post

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Culture and religion are two very different terms; both have different meaning and different ways of surviving. Culture is a word introduced by the brits in 1800 century, correct me if I’m wrong. Everyone’s definition of this word will be different then yours and none of that will be wrong, unless it’s idiotic of course. Religion on the other hand means the same almost every where you go.

Everything a Muslim does in the “cultural-circle” has to be approved by the outter circle of Islam, which is srounding the cultural circle. <<

Exactly! For Muslims only as you also said. Shabaash good example by the way

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Now you have problem with me offending and criticising our culture and their culture. You see, my problem with Pakistani Muslims is that they copy Hindu rituals into their Islamic rituals. Which is wrong. We should not copy or imitate the people who are disbelievers in the eyes of our creator. <<
Nope I don’t have problems with criticism – I have problems with you dissing my culture as a whole. And I have problems with you dissing the Muslim influence on our culture and other non-Hindu cultural influence on my culture. Actually I just found out (ok so my colleague told me that kofta’s originate from Greece huh and I thought it was ours.) Now you’re talking about a small aspect of culture, the copy thing. As Muzna said, a culture has to change, we need to adjust according to the ways of the world. Only culture can and should do that. Religion on the other hand, can’t and shouldn’t change – we both agree to that right.

Now, you probably have heard about our culture being influenced by western culture. Mainly through technology – is that good or bad? In stead of talking to each other, as we’ve done for centuries, we’re today using Internet, even in the remotest areas in Pak that will bring changes in our culture. Some will say we’re copying western culture, as we’re copying something they invented, but do you see problems with this copying?

About copying the Hindu rituals, you’re right, we shouldn’t do that. However have you ever thought about why ppl copy them? And what do we copy? If you look closely, it’’ almost all the fun stuff, ppl love holy, just like I like rakhi. Basant is great, mehndi is fun. Dowry is not, but for some it is fun. Are you following me? What if I ask you, bhai is it ok for us Muslims to celebrate Chaand raat?

Culture literaly means set of values shared by a particular society. Do we really have values that a Muslim should have or are we copying the values of Hindu culture? Islam has its own set of values which every Muslim is perscribed to follow. <<

Culture to me is lot more then just values – It defines your values, traditions, manners etc. It also defines your habits; it’s not coincident that we like spicy food, or some colors, books, TV programs etc. Arts, beauty in general, music etc all are affected by your culture. On top of this, every society, not nation, has its own rules by which they ‘survive’, like farmers have their daily chores and middle class has their own, none of them are wrong. Ppl up north have their climate their own problems and rules by which they make them self stronger then others (animals and like). Coming from a military family I like Pak forces related books more then others, while someone else might like to read about other religions or poetry, it’s all ok. This is culture, it has to be adjusted according to our needs and changes in the world, else it will die.

About our values as Muslims, dunno if we’ll ever be satisfied with our self or whether we’re supposed to think that now we’re doing ok. Islam leaves room for me to choose, Ilm khasil karo, now Islam never said anything about technical ilm or theoretical ilm, I’ll choose according to the society that’s influencing me, which will be reflecting it’s needs. When you say copy, what exactly do you mean?

When we copy Hindu rituals and their culture, we sort of become a “subculture” of hinduism not Islam. <<

In a way, every culture is sub-culture of Islam, because of prophet Adam right? You make it sound like we’re half Hindus already, nauzubillah.

Cultural aspects maybe the cloths one wears, and foods eaten[halal foods in different tastes, bread or roti both are halal, etc.]. <<

How come you aren’t criticizing ‘roti’? Why not criticize it as well, we all know that Hindus eat it, and since you’re not talking about Muslim influence on Hindu culture, I guess roti can be called Hindu culture. And bread western culture, why not start by stop eating that?

Well, many things actually, first would be not enough faith in our religion and second the influence of bad things have greater effect on humans the influence of good things.<<

Oh yeah? Dunno about faith stuff, but bad vs. good, it depends on you really. You as the messenger will determine how I understand and follow your advice that is if I’m too lazy to go read for my self. So if I ask you whether it’s ok that I have some fun, and you tell me, that this that and the other will kick me into hell, for how long do you think I’ll keep asking you for advice?

So, you love rakhi? There are many things we copy and will be copying…<<

Yeah, so now that we agree ke we will keep on copying, shouldn’t we be talking about how we best can ‘direct’ this copy procedure? What will make a non-Muslim copy us, Muslims? And how do we sell ours so we the Muslims copy Islam?

Thanks for the quranic verses – Ramadan Mubarak

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Waqas, what are you talking about?

You know why I do not like them? You know why, I do not want my Muslim brothers and sister following their ways of life? You know nothing!!!

They are killing muslim children and men, they are raping Muslim women and innocent teen age girls. And you want me not to speak against that? You want me not to say anything bad about them? And you want me not to tell my brothers and sister to stop following the way of life of your enemies and murders of your children. Maybe you need to fix up your self and find out who you really are, a Muslim or a hindu worshipper.

I do not have any respect, love, kindness, towards anyone who kills my Muslim brothers and sister. Would you like someone when that person kills your brother or sister? It doesn’t seem like.

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Before you open your mouth, think what are you going to say. Open up your mind and think.

No one is telling you HOW to live your life, someone is reminding you that what Allah has forbiden in Quran. Hindus are your enemies, get that reality in your head and rest will sink it automaticaly.

Sabah dear, I will come back answer your post, today or tomorrow.

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Take it easy.

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

20

Dear Sabah,

Hey, I didn’t know that word “culture” was introduced by brits. I know “nationalism” was introduced by them, correct me if I’m wrong.

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Its good to see “some” agreement.

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Yes, that example applies to Muslims only.

<<<Nope I don’t have problems with criticism – I have problems with you dissing my culture as a whole. And I have problems with you dissing the Muslim influence on our culture and other non-Hindu cultural influence on my culture. Actually I just found out (ok so my colleague told me that kofta’s originate from Greece huh and I thought it was ours.) Now you’re talking about a small aspect of culture, the copy thing. As Muzna said, a culture has to change, we need to adjust according to the ways of the world. Only culture can and should do that. Religion on the other hand, can’t and shouldn’t change – we both agree to that right.>>>>

Sabah, kofta’s they can be halal or haram. If you go in Greece and eat them, you are mostly likely to find non-halal koftas, but on the other hand if you come to Pakistan or any other Muslim country, you are most likely to eat the “halal” koftas, right? Remember my “roti/bread” example?
Now take Marriage for example: Most of the stuff that happens in Pakistani Muslim’s marriages is imitation of hindus/indian movies. They do what ever happens in those movies. If you look at the marriages that happen in Pakistan most of them have stuff, which should not happen in a Muslim’s marriage. Yes, culture has to change, but has to be approved by the “outer-circle” of religion. When someone says “adust” according to the ways of world - what does that suppose to mean? You change your self as the world changes it self? To me that would be like being a slave of the rest of the world! Considering same ideology, we should be doing allot of things which rest of the world is and we are not. [If rest of the world starts jumping off the bridges, we should adjust to that and start to jump of the bridges]

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oOKk

Our culture is being influenced by all sides, hindus are being influenced by west and than they mix some of their in their and pass it on to us. Also, we are directly facing the same challenge and problem from the west[their movies, cable, etc.]. I call it ideological warfare. Despite the fact you being the Muslims and all that, they will convert you into thier colors and than either you be a “Muslim” or not, it won’t matter anyway.

<<<About copying the Hindu rituals, you’re right, we shouldn’t do that. However have you ever thought about why ppl copy them? And what do we copy? If you look closely, it’’ almost all the fun stuff, ppl love holy, just like I like rakhi. Basant is great, mehndi is fun. Dowry is not, but for some it is fun. Are you following me? What if I ask you, bhai is it ok for us Muslims to celebrate Chaand raat?>>>

You know in west, sex is consider a “fun” thing to do. People do it in their teenage years. I am not saying it does not happen in other parts of the world. If, rakhi, basant, mehndi, dowry, chaand raat are fun, why not sex before marriage? Why does a poor guy and gal have to wait till they get married to break it off? Why not copy that from them, as well? Why care about what your religion says, huh? Your already ignoring what your religion says about the other matters!!!
Do you think, Islam approves of what ever happens on Chaand Raat in Pakistan and maybe in other parts of world as well? I think, NOT! How does Islam tell you to get marry, Islam is simple, why make it complicated by bring new things into it, does it have mehndi in it? Isn’t basant, a ritual of non-muslims, doesn’t Allah tell us not to imitate them? Moreover, Islam is suppose to have two eids, now they have more than two.

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Again, adjusted according to your need. Ok, I agree. What are your needs, how does one determine that? Having problems and being different does not mean you start to fulfil your needs by imitating others. How the hell do you come up with that solution? People did not had VCRs few decades ago. Now VCR has bad uses and good uses. What is bad and what is good, it is already defined by Islam. You can either watch xxx movies, which is bad and/or you can watch some educational/religious cassette/film, which is good. Now, what do you chose?

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Since you mentioned technology: Computer is good, you can do many things on it and it really saves you time. A letter which took some time to write in the time of Mohammad, can be written and printed in matters of minutes. Internet, you can do many things on it, while stilling staying inside of that outer-circle of Islam. You can set up sites to help others, you can set up sites to teach others about Islam, you can setup bussiness. Telephones, you can talk to your family, friends and people can reach you in the times of need. Those are just examples of how we can adjust to the changing world and still stay in the circle of Islam. When you start to copy the rituals of non-muslims, that is bad.

I explained before Sabah, roti is halal, you can eat that. Outer circle does not approve of mendi, basant, rakhi, watching movies with half-naked cyprians in there, with the exception of movies, everything else is a “ritual,” which we imitate of of Hindus.

We have to have MASS media, we have to show/tell people about Islam on a larger-global scale, with satellite channels, some radio stations. To make the story short, we need advertising and MONEY to tell people about Islam, so they might imitate us rather than we imitating them!!! If we change our colors and become one of them, we will never be the ones with “money” and they will always look at us with prejudice and biases, example: Western Media resulted in Muslims being terrorist, when we really are not, nor does our religion teachs us to be like that.

Opps, sorry about the long post. Take it easy. Happy-Ramadan

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Take it easy.

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----