Re: Cultural Influence on conecpt of God, etc
No , if you talk about the real sufiism , it makes you come near to Allah , it doesnt encourage you visiting mazars and dargaahs!
yes but doesnt it depend on the intention. if you're going there to respect the Sufi saint rather than trying to make that reason for visit it i dont see how that is very wrong.
Re: Cultural Influence on conecpt of God, etc
agreed with u d2lk
Re: Cultural Influence on conecpt of God, etc
The government brainwashed people, madrassahs were setup for the purpose, people brought from all over the world to fight a jehad. The curriculum was changed, and a soft corner was developed among the public for the 'jehad'. It has had its toll on KPK/FATA as that was the front line for the 'jehad'. KPK is also the land of Khushhal Khan Khattak and Rahman Baba. All the important sufi's who are buried in Punjab and Sindh came from Central Asia. If you see the muslim world 1000 years back you will see Rumi and others present every where. Where as Wahabism movement started in the 1700's.
Back in the 17-18th C people from West used to come to Middle East and Asia in order to be more free, have more freedom of thought and to learn about poets like Rumi. It was completely different then to now.
Re: Cultural Influence on conecpt of God, etc
Back in the 17-18th C people from West used to come to Middle East and Asia in order to be more free, have more freedom of thought and to learn about poets like Rumi. It was completely different then to now.
Situation started changing in the last century (1900's).
Re: Cultural Influence on conecpt of God, etc
@ali syed
How can they not think ?
You don't kill because you are taught its wrong to.
They kill because they are taught its right to.
Both are taught...where does brainwashing come in here ?
How abt when soldiers kill ? Orders from superiors ... where is their thought process ? They think they are doing it for the benefit of the country ...similarly...suicide bombers think they are doing it for their benefit & for their communities benefit.
Who decides which one is brainwashing & which isn't ?
Well said lp
Re: Cultural Influence on conecpt of God, etc
I think its the other way, the society has changed and so are the words transformed.
I think you are right, but words do change societies. After all, Quran (the word of God) was the major catalyst in bringing change in Arab society.
The changes that took place in Pakistan's society during last 3 decades, could get space in society, as people were made to believe that God wanted all this and in the background they (people behind all this change) did what suited them misinterpreting God and His word.
Re: Cultural Influence on conecpt of God, etc
do you think it is a big transformation? how big is Sufism in Sindh today? Do many people visit Lal Shahbaz Qalandar's shrine in Sehwan? I hope one day to visit as i have heard much about it especially after the dama dam mast Qalandar popularised it. He was born in Afghanistan but his ancestors came from Baghdad. Like Ali said how many Sufis originated from central asia.
In India Ajmer Sharif dargah is popular with people of all backgrounds as is the Haji Ali dargah in Mumbai. My parents went last year and there were people of all religious backgrounds.
To be very honest, being A Sindhi, I can accept that Sindhi society losing its Sufi values. The Sufi values were alive till partition, which were depicted by the population in the form of avoiding violence that prevailed all over. Sufis talk about enlightenment and self improvement, but dargahs like Sehwan are the place and safe refuge of Junkies. Drugs, illicit relationships (bhoot nikala by Gaddi nasheen), idleness... You name it, all the negativity is there. Not saying that 100% people visiting these dargahs are involved it, but the sense of feeling bad things bad disappearing.
Re: Cultural Influence on conecpt of God, etc
by the way just my observation, this point that Mullah (as they like to call) ka Khuda (concept) hamesha ghussay main hota hay, aag deh kaye betha hay aur har kisi ko pakar pakar kay usmain dalta hay, is mostly raised by two kind people, sufies and/or atheist-posing-as-liberals.
Re: Cultural Influence on conecpt of God, etc
To be very honest, being A Sindhi, I can accept that Sindhi society losing its Sufi values. The Sufi values were alive till partition, which were depicted by the population in the form of avoiding violence that prevailed all over. Sufis talk about enlightenment and self improvement, but dargahs like Sehwan are the place and safe refuge of Junkies. Drugs, illicit relationships (bhoot nikala by Gaddi nasheen), idleness... You name it, all the negativity is there. Not saying that 100% people visiting these dargahs are involved it, but the sense of feeling bad things bad disappearing.
The dilemma that we have now is that we have two extremes:
Some Shrine goers cross limits (especially the uneducated lot) and on the other side we have others who consider those going to shrines as Mushriqs.
There is no doubt that some reform is needed to curb some activities that happen on the shrines, and this needs to happen on the state level as well as individually. The crimes in and around shrines are increasing due to the apathy of the state as well. Having said that the polarization and hatred we have got at the moment it wouldn't hurt to delve on what message these sufis had propagated in the subcontinent and the impact it had on the local population.
Re: Cultural Influence on conecpt of God, etc
by the way just my observation, this point that Mullah (as they like to call) ka Khuda (concept) hamesha ghussay main hota hay, aag deh kaye betha hay aur har kisi ko pakar pakar kay usmain dalta hay, is mostly raised by two kind people, sufies and/or atheist-posing-as-liberals.
Agree and you know it got a reason behind it. When Sufis start reading word of God (Quran), they stop at Rehman o Rahim (Bismillah's part) and their all concentration revolves around this first introduction. They are more attached to Jamal of God than Jalal of God. If you see concept of God in Hinduism, it is also predominant by the rewarding aspects of God.
As far as atheists are concerned, its simply fear of unknown that make them tilted towards this version of God.
Re: Cultural Influence on conecpt of God, etc
....كتب على نفسه الرحمة....
الانعام ۱۲
zyada tar yehee sunna hay ulama say k ALLAH keh Rehmat uskay Ghussay par ghaalib to hay, lekin iskay sath sath ye bhi haqeeqat hay
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ بِآيَاتِ اللّهِ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ شَدِيدٌ وَاللّهُ عَزِيزٌ ذُو انتِقَامٍ ....
اٰل عمران ۴
sath sath ye bhi hay k Gunah ka ya buray amaal ka badla to utna hi hay jitna koi gunah karay, lekin neki ka badla ALLAH ki marzi hay jitna chahain baRha dain, kam nahi ho sakta, zyada ho sakta hay
islam main to yehi concept hay ALLAH ka, culture koi bhi ho
Re: Cultural Influence on conecpt of God, etc
But people are attracted towards soft image of God than highly inflammable version. Thats why Sufi version could attract more people than the orthodox clergy.
Re: Cultural Influence on conecpt of God, etc
Is everything we have been taught since birth considered brainwashing then ?
Or is it once there is a change in what we had been taught since birth ?
Are only the negative attitudes of ppl considered brainwashing ?
Or is the term misused ?
yay i like that youre thinking!!