Have you come across any in your time? If so why did you feel that they were cultlike in their behaviour?
Would Devil worshippers be considered a cult?
How about Neo Nazi skin heads?
Hari Krishna gang?
Well, so far I've come across all three of them in Montreal and Toronto downtown.
I have yet to see Vampire Cult which would be interesting.
Jitna Diya Sarkar Nay Mujko, Itni Meri Auqat Nahi, Yeh Saab Tumhara Karam Hai Aqa, Mujh Mein Aisi Koi Baat Nahin.
Love happens once . . .
[quote]
Originally posted by Renaissance:
Have you come across any in your time? If so why did you feel that they were cultlike in their behaviour?
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Cult among the Muslims or Non-Muslims ?
Coconut. What did you generally feel about them? Was there any types of behaviour tendencies which was shared by them all?
Babydoll. Yes, Muslim cults would be an interesting topic to dicuss too. Have you come across many? What is so "cultlike" about them?
depends on what u classify a cult as, would free masons be considered a cult, would college fraternities be considered a cult..
By my definition of a cult, both freemasons and Hizb-ul-tahrir are as close to a cult as anything..secrecy, rituals and all as well
Now that you ask how i feel about them.
Hari Krishna Gang:
I think i'll get penalized by Admin for saying this but ACCORDING to NEWS (CNN, CTV, etc) they are known to take people esp. women in and molest and brain wash 'em and i don't approve of that. i.e. there was this one 16 yr old girl got brainwashed into thinking that the father of her child was whoever penetrated her atleast thats the explanation she gave to her parents. Keep in mind i'm not saying this without sources such as world reknown news casts and not blabbering.
The Devil Worshippers: oh where should i start, they hate everyone who believes in God. Their rituals are pathetic, to this time they slaughter virgins, childeren, animals, beastality, child molestations hatred crimes so on and so forth.
Neo Nazi's: Just a bunch of white segregated screwed up people who think that their race is superior dressing in those boots and shaving their heads. They are pretty close to KKK which is another stupid cult.
P.S. ADMIN/MODERATORS where did my thread go titled AFTER INTERCOURSE?????
Jitna Diya Sarkar Nay Mujko, Itni Meri Auqat Nahi, Yeh Saab Tumhara Karam Hai Aqa, Mujh Mein Aisi Koi Baat Nahin.
Love happens once . . .
[This message has been edited by CocoNut (edited July 22, 2001).]
[quote]
Originally posted by Renaissance:
Babydoll. Yes, Muslim cults would be an interesting topic to dicuss too. Have you come across many? What is so "cultlike" about them?
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They are very secretive. You can almost get no information about their literature. A lot of mysticisms. And usually, they have a picture of some unknown guy smiling /with that eerie look place on the wall of their house.
They usually claim to have a ticket to paradise. And weird teaching, ritual, stuffs etc...
Fraudz. Hmm. I'll tell you why this topic came up in my mind. I was reading this book by Alan Bullock called Hitler: A Study in Tyranny. I came to the part where there is an exerpt of a speech by the Nazi Party leader Rudolf Hess on June 30, 1934: "One man remains beyond all criticism, and that is the Fuhrer. This is because everyone senses and knows: He is always right, and he will always be right. The Nationalism Socialism of all of us in anchored in uncritical loyalty, in a surrender to the Fuhrer." And I thought wow, that kinda sums up the definition of "cultlike" up quite nicely. And I remember from elsewhere in that book where Hitler states (and I paraphrase): "What good fortune for those in power that people do not think."
To me, in a lot of the cults that I have come across, this type of behaviour reserved for leaders tends to be quite common. From HT to Ayn Rand, they all seem to share similar traits. Like the incessant glorification of the leader. The "fact" that the leader can't be wrong. So the leader is virtually omniscient. And anything the leader says, goes, even on the most stupidly trivial things. And resorting to techniques of harrassment in recruiting potential members. Those hidden agendas that recruits, potential followers or joe public know nothing about. And recruits are not told everything about the leader or the "inner circle". And obvious flaws and embarrassing circumstances are quickly hushed up. And recruits and followers are told to give monetary contributions to fill the coffers. And leader may develop sexual relations with any one or more followers. And the belief that the leader has discovered absolute truth. And belief that the leader has developed a system of absolute morality. And anybody who violates it is severely punished and becomes a non-member. And so on. And so on.
This is what "cultlike" means to me. Irrespective of whether it's religious or not. And I see kids getting involved in this kind of stuff quite easily. Such cults are antagonistic against the evolution and progressiveness of society. The only way for our society to grow is to free itself of this dogma. We need to dump all this rubbish. How else are we going to obtain the freedom to think clearly and to have the opportunity to discuss, argue, to contradict each other, to learn and mutually benefit from the acquisition of knowledge? Cult leaders violate these freedoms in order to gain short term benefits for themselves. Who suffers in the long term? All of us.
[quote]
Originally posted by Fraudz:
By my definition of a cult, both freemasons and Hizb-ul-tahrir are as close to a cult as anything..secrecy, rituals and all as well
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This is really interesting. I've always wanted to know about the freemasons. Who are they? What do they do? I've heard so much about these people from sources which I cannot established to be unbiased. No proof, no historical evidence, nothing. Just rhetoric. I've tried to look into this issue before but no results. Maybe I will need to start all over again. Could you could shed some light here on why they are cultlike? And firmly put me on the path to enlightenment? That would be great. With regards to HT - well, don't get me started on them. :)
Coconut. That's interesting. Can I ask if you know how they generally operate? In your exerience, do all these examples seem to share a similar hierarchy of members? What about the leaders? Is there an "inner circle" as such?
[quote]
Originally posted by babydoll:
They are very secretive. You can almost get no information about their literature. A lot of mysticisms. And usually, they have a picture of some unknown guy smiling /with that eerie look place on the wall of their house.
They usually claim to have a ticket to paradise. And weird teaching, ritual, stuffs etc...
[/quote]
Yes. That behaviour would seem to be quite consistent with what I have come across before. As pointed out earlier, they have a tendency to claim a monopoly on absolute truth and absolute morality. I would be very interested in how they would reconcile that notion with their practise of secrecy. After all, if they have the sole claim to the "ticket to paradise" (as you nicely put it) why should they feel so threatened by the glare of public scrutiny? Interesting.
Renaissance
Can you describe some of the cult that you have seen.
Renaissance
I have written a few threads about it, but ask what u want to know and I will tell u what I know...
a while back divulging freemason secrets was punishable by death, no3w officially its by disowning the member, but its still interesting.
I always recommend a book called brothers in blood to peopel who want to know more about it.
Babydoll. I have been blessed with the likes of the Church of Scientology, Branch Davidians, Ayn Rand's "Objectivist" movement, Hizb-ul-Tahrir and a few others in passing. Also I have had a lot of exposure to a few "Sufi" movements as well. I recognised in all these the type of certainty and Truth claims typically found in cults and religions. Especially the veneration, innerancy and supposed omniscience of the leader. And the belief that one has access to absolute truth, particularly with regard to moral questions. If people want to believe what they want, then that's fine with me. I have no moral right to tell anyone how they should live their lives. But this is precisely where these personality cults diverge from rationality. It simply is not scientifically tenable to state that morals can be held to some absolute criteria. What they don't understand that morality is a human construction dependant upon cultural conditioning. But when a group sets itself up as the final moral arbiter of others actions then it marks the end of tolerance. And reason and rationality don't figure at all. I see nothing wrong with a justified belief in one's superiority. But when belief in one's superiority is predicated on a false and intolerant belief it is an insidious belief. And I would have to express doubts upon the sincerity of these personality cults. Treachery is far too common when it comes to these kind of people.
Fraudz. Thanks. I will hunt around for those threads when I can. But could you tell me what is the purpose of the freemason movment? What are they here for? How do they propogate their belief system? What is the leadership heirarchy that they employ in their organisation?
renaissance
I apologize for not responding, but I have written a bit on this subject in these forums so did not wanna re-do all that. i will try to find that thread for u.
Search in cafe or general section for a thread by hinna on free masons but I recall she had spelled them as macins or something. there wa salso a thread in world affairs a whle back. Those threads will answer your questions ..then we can go forward with follow up questions in a diff thread if needed
[quote]
Originally posted by Renaissance:
...But when a group sets itself up as the final moral arbiter of others actions then it marks the end of tolerance...
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You can say that again. I see these types of people all over the place. Where I live, where I visit - online, here in Pak.org's religion section, etc. They are above fault.
On a funny note: Some of these people came to my town a few years back and passed an eddict that the meat from local stores is halal. I see their women all covered head to toe eating in McDonalds. My thought is that what the heck is going thru their mind. When I see these types of people buying meat in the local store, my daughter gets near them and askes in loud voice daddy can we buy these burgers. I just reply back loudly that no they are not halal. Cracks me up. And then the audacity of them to come to my home and tell me what religion is. Ironic.
[quote]
Originally posted by jannu:
** You can say that again. I see these types of people all over the place. Where I live, where I visit - online, here in Pak.org's religion section, etc. They are above fault.
On a funny note: Some of these people came to my town a few years back and passed an eddict that the meat from local stores is halal. I see their women all covered head to toe eating in McDonalds. My thought is that what the heck is going thru their mind. When I see these types of people buying meat in the local store, my daughter gets near them and askes in loud voice daddy can we buy these burgers. I just reply back loudly that no they are not halal. Cracks me up. And then the audacity of them to come to my home and tell me what religion is. Ironic.**
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You'd be surprised. A lot of scholars agree with these people you described, basing their arguments on fiqh Maliki. To most Pakistanis, including myself, who principally adhere to fiqh Hanafi, that view seems ridiculous and unthinkable.
I do not want to turn this thread into a political thread, but to me, MQM (Muttahida Qomi Movement - ex Mohajir QM) is/was also cult-like (at least by definition Renaissance provided, and I agree to somewhat). They also considered Altaf Hussain as 'absolute' and 'always right', and at one point his pictures started to showing up in plants leaves (hehehe whata joke).
We oughta be Changez like, don't we?
[quote]
Originally posted by Changez_like:
**I do not want to turn this thread into a political thread, but to me, MQM (Muttahida Qomi Movement - ex Mohajir QM) is/was also cult-like (at least by definition Renaissance provided, and I agree to somewhat). They also considered Altaf Hussain as 'absolute' and 'always right', and at one point his pictures started to showing up in plants leaves (hehehe whata joke).
**
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I favored MQM in the earlier stages...but things like this and the cult-like adherence that you described, the MQM sponsored terrorists, etc, put people off. During one birthday, Altaf's cake was made that was over 10 ft. tall and he used a golden sword to cut the cake.
Joke? I think you put it mildly.
i have watched the cult members os osho or rajneesh as they are called .i visited thier ashram too .it was a revelation
though they seem to be a confused people who were running away from the mundane world who had come from all over the world europe usa and esp japan and took refugee in the cult but there were some good things too like some good yoga exercises and meditation techniques
there was a free mix up of sexes no bar
but on whole i found those people rather confused and emotionally insecure and in some cases perverted in nature