…twisted by everyone to justify their own views?
I kinda remember the concept of freedom of thought, choice and importance of seeking true knowledge and thinking for
yourself also being a very huge part of not only Islam but all religions..at least in their original purest forms.
Re: why are quotations blindly taken from the Quran and hadith always brought up and...
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by waqas72: *
...twisted by everyone to justify their own views?
I kinda remember the concept of freedom of thought, choice and importance of seeking true knowledge and thinking for
yourself also being a very huge part of not only Islam but all religions..at least in their original purest forms.
[/QUOTE]
Who's quotations would you prefer instead ?
nah ! The source is good.. :)
That's not what I'm trying to say.. you've misunderstood..
.. just the way people can use the same exact phrases and words to support either the most tolerant , peaceful views and ideas to the most wretched hateful and destructive ideas is just very very scary!
Re: why are quotations blindly taken from the Quran and hadith always brought up and...
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by waqas72: *
...twisted by everyone to justify their own views?
[/QUOTE]
Quran is clear, but it is not clear for EVERYONE. Prophet said that he is leaving behind him two things: Quran and Sunnah (some ahadith say, Ahle Bait.).
If somebody reads Quran without looking at Sunnah then he is doomed to go awry.
Criticisms on Ahadith…
Found this very brief counters to Munkir-e-Hadith…They are very simply stated through the Quran as a reference…
On a side note, wouldn’t it be great if the Ahadith had no value and everything was just the Quran? At least we’d have an excuse to say to Allah :swt:, ‘Allah, you never told us how to pray in the Quran, so there’.
But the Ahadith are there, the guidance to lead a man’s nature to something higher, to something more sublime…If the Quran is the believer’s guidebook that leads him to a better Aakhira, then it is the actions, words and teachings of our beloved Prophet :saw: that make us lead out lives to a better Duniya…
How many blanks must the Munkir-e-Hadith must draw in everyday small situations where he wouldn’t know how to act…His speech, his actions all led by his own whims…True, the Quran should be a big step for a better Aakhira (Allah knows best), but we would be half the person without the Ahadith to guide our small steps…
Anyways, it’s there for your perusal…
FYI: I am not one of those "Munkireen-e-Hadith", I do follow ahadith. From the site you provided, I find this not really true, and dangerous:
Criticism #3:
Any such hadith will be considered fabricated which suggests that the tree cried.
Response:
We made the mountains, and the birds to celebrate Our praise.
[Soorah Anbiya, ayah 79]
What are we to say about mountains which praise Allah, not only that some rocks fear Allah.
And indeed there are rocks which fall down for the fear of Allah.
[Soorah Baqara, ayah 74]
So first reject these ayahs then criticize hadiths; if not and certainly not then why not believe in ahadith which carry a similar meaning and are also revealed by Allah?
This is suggesting that Ahadith were revealed by Allah swt, which is incorrect and dangerous.
I went over rest of the arguments too, not very convincing.
Munkireen-e-Hadith use the criticisms provided on the site to back up their claim of Ahadith being fabricated or not trustworthy…The site is good in the sense that the counter-claims provided are easy and simple enough to understand and backed up by the Quran…
The Hadith that you mention Changez, does not anywhere claim that it is divinely inspired, yet the Quran states whatever the Prophets utter regarding faith is from Allah :swt: and no other source…Now what do you say to that?
What about the way the Salat is performed, was that not divinely inspired? Yet, it is in the Ahadith and Sunnah that we find it. Where’s the incorrectness and danger in that? Unless you think that the way to perform Salat was devised (Nauzubillah) by the Prophet :saw: himself…
I don’t know where you got the idea that criticism #3 is suggesting that it was revealed by Allah :swt:…
if i am getting it right then …some ahdiths were reveled by ALLAh…these ahdiths were calleed hadith e qudsi…and if they r narrated by many different chains of shahis narrators…they r binding…
wamalina illalbalgh
Keywords. Also, the danger is in taking ahadith as they exist today as “Divine revelations”.
Most of components of salat (if not all) are agreed upon by all the fiqhs (Sunni and Shia), and also mentioned in Quran, so there is no danger in accepting Salat as we learn and pray today.
These are the words from that site:
So first reject these ayahs then criticize hadiths; if not and certainly not then why not believe in ahadith which carry a similar meaning and are also revealed by Allah?
there r many ayahs which clearly prove that hadith is an important and inevitable source for islamic jurispudence…
2- Can those who say that hadith is not worth considering (nauzobillah)prove to me that quran we recite today is the same quran reveled on :saw:
I dunno in some ways you are indeed right.
But no one can seem to agree on what the Quran & hadith really mean?!
1) How do you solve that problem?!
& Prophet Muhammad himself had only the Quran
.. and no hadith !? lol
Cause these were based on his own very actions and how he lived!
2) How did he manage to always know the right thing to do?
3) And why can't anybody else?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by waqas72: *
I dunno in some ways you are indeed right.
But no one can seem to agree on what the Quran & hadith really mean?!
1) How do you solve that problem?!
& Prophet Muhammad himself had only the Quran
.. and no hadith !? lol
Cause these were based on his own very actions and how he lived!
2) How did he manage to always know the right thing to do?
3) And why can't anybody else?
[/QUOTE]
Assalam Aleekum
App ka name buhat achaaa ha. Ekk Sahabi Saad Bin Abi Waqas(RA)
theee. Lekn app ke thread buhat he CHILDISH he.
take care
i think brothers me yeh debate nahe hunee chayeee.
take care
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *
Assalam Aleekum
App ka name buhat achaaa ha. Ekk Sahabi Saad Bin Abi Waqas(RA)
theee. Lekn app ke thread buhat he CHILDISH he.
take care
[/QUOTE]
Childish !! What Qaqas has questioning is quite fundamental. Do you find the question too difficult to answer ?
So much agreed above !!! too immature of a question. Either you are not serious what you are asking for Waqas, either you have no clue who is Prophet Mohammad :saw:.
-Salman
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *
i think brothers me yeh debate nahe hunee chayeee.
take care
[/QUOTE]
But the sadest part is hum so called brothers mein hi yehi baat hoti haye. We are more eager to stab another muslim in the most harshest words as compare to a non muslim coming on this board and challenging our religion. May Allah guide us. Humaryae apney aapas kaye fitnaye hi nahi khatam hotaye tou hum duniya mein kia khaaq taraqee kerein gaye.
-Salman
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by SalmanNY: *Humaryae apney aapas kaye fitnaye hi nahi khatam hotaye tou hum duniya mein kia khaaq taraqee kerein gaye.
[/QUOTE]
*
Some words of sense in this thread Masha'Allah!!!!
allah promised to protect the quran, and not the ahadith.. so that should give you an importance scale on the order of merit.
prophet muhammad (pbuh) himself ordered no ahadith to be written lest they be put on same level as quran.. this would not be the case if ahadith were 'revealed by allah' as one person has argued here.
that should give you second idea of what is important.
i'mnot discounting the importance of sunnah .. but the ahadith are not 'protected' by allah and over time a fair amount of 'sahih' ahadith have also found to be inaccuratefor whatever reason.. but same cannot be said for verses of quran.
this allows us some freedom on what needs to be done when we encounter a situation not previously faced.. e.g.
1) praying was mentioned.. but no sunnah or ahadith can tell me how to pray in a space station or say a moon base. i can't face makkah .. but we can make inference from ahadith and try to put it on our current model and decide.
2) moon sighting.. moon is sigted like umpteen times a day ,.. sight moon and start fasting,, sight moon and stop fasting. .... just doesnt work in space.. imagine if you were on a moon base . just look out and hey. its moon.
anyways.. i hope you get the idea. quran tells you what needs to be done . and sunnah tells you how.. but the 'how' can be updated to suit new circumstances... which makes the religion a little flexible to adjust to chaging times, and not rigid.
in the end.. most thing in islam are to do with the principles rather than set defined actions... though there are some set defined actions but they are laid out in clarity in Quran
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by blackzero: *
allah promised to protect the quran, and not the ahadith.. so that should give you an importance scale on the order of merit.
prophet muhammad (pbuh) himself ordered no ahadith to be written lest they be put on same level as quran.. this would not be the case if ahadith were 'revealed by allah' as one person has argued here.
that should give you second idea of what is important.
i'mnot discounting the importance of sunnah .. but the ahadith are not 'protected' by allah and over time a fair amount of 'sahih' ahadith have also found to be inaccuratefor whatever reason.. but same cannot be said for verses of quran.
this allows us some freedom on what needs to be done when we encounter a situation not previously faced.. e.g.
1) praying was mentioned.. but no sunnah or ahadith can tell me how to pray in a space station or say a moon base. i can't face makkah .. but we can make inference from ahadith and try to put it on our current model and decide.
2) moon sighting.. moon is sigted like umpteen times a day ,.. sight moon and start fasting,, sight moon and stop fasting. .... just doesnt work in space.. imagine if you were on a moon base . just look out and hey. its moon.
anyways.. i hope you get the idea. quran tells you what needs to be done . and sunnah tells you how.. but the 'how' can be updated to suit new circumstances... which makes the religion a little flexible to adjust to chaging times, and not rigid.
in the end.. most thing in islam are to do with the principles rather than set defined actions... though there are some set defined actions but they are laid out in clarity in Quran
[/QUOTE]
Black Zero
App ke kia baat hee. App ne kitna baraa maslaa solve kardiaa.
Naooz u Billah.