Creating new things in Islam? ??

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

I have seen people asking people about khatems where you asign a part of quran to group of people and they finish reading quran and then they eat and everything. When I ask people why do they do this and they say it way we can get sawab for people who are dead? I don’t what are they talking about.

My question to you is. IS IT RIGHT THING TO DO? DID PROPHET EVER DID THESE KINDS OF THINGS AND IF HE DID WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT HE DID?

IF AND I SAY IF YOU HAVE THE EVIDENCE THAT HE DID OR HIS CAMPANIONS DID IT. THE EVIDENCE SHOULD BE FROM HADITH AND QURAN ONLY!!!

2

If you are asking whether it's bida'a (innovation) to have these khatams when somebody dies, "IS IT RIGHT THING TO DO?"

My opinion is that it depends on your intention. I have heard, but I have not searched for the evidence saying that when a person dies, he/she can still gain reward though you for the good deeds you do in their name. Now let's assume this is true, that's where your intention comes in. If you are intention is to start a tradition, where there is the same kind of khatam whenever someone dies, then that's wrong. If your intention is to do good deeds, so that the deceased will benefit from it, then it's alright.

So whether the Prophet (S.A.W.) and his companions had these khatams as a means of the dead person gaining more rewards, I can't say. But if you can do good deeds for people to gain reward even after they are dead, and reading the Qur'an is one of the things you can do, then it depends on the intention of the person.

3

Nicely done, Asif.

You seems like a logical person... :) I believe the intentions are good deeds for the dead ones. Haven't you heard of people doing Ummra/Hajj on the behalf of deceased???

4

First of all I don't want your opinion. I want proof wether the prophet did say that we should do these things for that person to get reward. If he did where does it say that he said those. Islam is not what you think or what the logic is Islam is if the prophet did it we should do it and if he did not we should not do it even we have to die. I have read only three things that prophet said could benefit a dead person they could be find in bukhary and muskat shrif, the books of hadiths.

Prophet said who ever creates new things in Islam is mardood and his place is jahanam.

Allah in quran says that your religion is complete today and I have choosen Islam for you.
If it was completed 1400 years age who gave us the right to creat new things in it.

*** I could have given you the hadiths here but they were in urdu and I did'n wanted to translate it. As soon I find one I will post it.

*********PLEASE DO NOT STATE WHAT YOU THINK OR WHAT YOUR OPINION IS.

5

Brothers, it is good to see Jawaan with some sense and sensability. Off course you cannot judge things by having a good intension. That way I have a good intention, so I can drink alcohol. NO NO NO.

Jawaan put it right. We need daleel to follow any action. No matter what & no matter

To the best of my knowledge, to have khatams is a Bid'aa. This is not what the Prophet (saw) did & neither did any of the Sahaaba so we cannot say that it is right.

The reason behind it is that the person maybe a adulterer, may have committed shirk, may never have read the Qur'an, so why would you read it for him/her. You have to learn from his/her death and remember your time and get prepared to meet Munkir & Nakir in the grave.

Also, the only way a person can get ajr after his/her death is if he constructed a masjid, or because of his/her action, a lot of good deads are committed.

If I said anything wrong then may allah (swt) forgive me and erase it from the mind of the reader.

w'salam.

6

Homid,
"Brothers, it is good to see Jawaan with some sense and sensability. Off course you cannot judge things by having a good intension. That way I have a good intention, so I can drink alcohol. NO NO NO."

What the hell are you talking about? When I said you have the right intention, it meant that as long as your intention to do khatams is so that the dead person can get reward, then it's alright.

That's also why I specified that if you can do good things so that someone can get reward, then it isn't necessarily wrong. If reading Quran is one of the things you can do so that the dead person can gain reward, and you do it with this intention, then there is nothing wrong with it.

The Quran in the format we have it today, you may call it bida'a, because in the time of the Prophet (S.A.W.), they didn't have it like that. It was after a lot of Sahaba (R.A.) started dying in battle, that they compiled it into a book with thirty chapters.

The way we have the Tasbeeh(string with 100 beads used to keep count of your zikr) is also something you can say is bida'a, since they did not have them at the time of Rasul(S.A.W.).

Also, this may only apply to you if you are a Sunni Hanafi Muslim-- the Ulema have suggested us to do some Amal, like go out in the path of Allah, forty days every year, three days a month, four months in your lifetime. Now if we were to consider that these numbers were said in Islam, meaning that going out in the path of Allah for such times is your religious obligation, that would be bida'a. But if you decided to set those numbers as personal goals for yourself, then there is nothing wrong with it.

So I stand by my word. It depends on intention. Your intention can make the difference between your deeds being bida'a or acceptable.

So Br.Jawaan, I think your real question is can the Quran be read to gain good deeds for a dead brother/sister. This question, I don't know the answer to. If you find it, then you can answe your own question. If you want me to find it for you, then you'll have to give me about a month.

If you look in Hadith, I you wouldn't find the Prophet (S.A.W.) saying that we should compile the Quran into one book with thirty chapters, as the Quran we read today has been. But it was done with the right intention. The intention of propagating Islam.

7

A historical factual response to the Bida'a idealogy as suggested and implemented by a lot of muslims. I liked your response, Asif.

8

Well I read about the things which can benifit, when the person is dead are only three the fourth thing is not mentioned in any book of hadiths. So what are these khatams doing in our religion. If its not in the hadith books who told us to do "Khatams"?
I mean hello you cannot do what prophet didn't asked us to do.

IT IS NOT MENTIONED IN ANY AND I MEAN ANY BOOKS OF HADITHS, SO ITS NEVER ALRIGHT TO DO IT!!!!!!!! ITS JUST SOME STUPID BEDAA WHICH WE SEEM TO BE DOING TO GET REWARD FOR DEAD, WAKE UP PEOPLE AND READ SOME HADITH!!!!

[This message has been edited by Jawaan (edited 11-04-98).]

9

Coincidentally I attended a Katam about a fortnight ago (though I don't believe in the practice).

Katam's are practised by Brelvis, I suspect some pir started the whole thing. The problem with Brelvis is that you can't question their faith. They're a hot headed lot and tend to get upset very easily.

Farouq Taj.