Cowardly Idf Soldiers, amazing clip

[AlexB]

@janab-e-ali

Arguments about the historical legitimacy of the creation of Israel aside, I think the continued existance of an Israeli state is a reality that the Palestinian people, and the Arab/Muslim world as whole, simply need to get used to. That said, how would the creation of a viable, independent, territorially contiguous Palestine, as part of a two state solution, “abolish [Israel’s] independence?”

It would not.

@janab-e-ali

Frankly, its probably in Israel’s best interests too. I think Tzipi Livni said it best when she pointed out (and I’m paraphrasing) that there are essentially three goals for Israel - (1) to be a Jewish state, (2) to be a democracy, (3) and to occupy all of the land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea - however, Israel can only accomplish any 2 of these goals together. (1) & (2) would require getting rid of Arab-majority areas like the West Bank and Gaza, as demographic realities would otherwise make Israel a Muslim-majority country within a few decades. (1) & (3) would require an apartheid state, for the same demographic reasons. (2) & (3) would again cease to be a “Jewish state.”

No argument here.
A viable, independent, territorially contiguous Palestinian state next to a viable, independent, territorially contiguous Jewish state seems to be the most reasonable solution. All it takes is to convince the Arabs to accept the “Jewish state” part of the deal and we are good to go!! The occupation will be over!

@janab-e-ali

Perhaps the most laughable thing you’ve said so far. Israel is a self-defined “Jewish state.”

The concept of “the Jewish state” does not negate full and equal civil rights and political freedoms to the minorities.

@janab-e-ali

Lip service to equal rights aside, its laws have been drafted to ensure preferential treatment for Jews…whether its in terms of immigration (why do only Jews have the “right of return”?),

The laws of immigration and naturalization clearly do not apply to the citizens, by definition.

@janab-e-ali

or the right to recover lost properties (Jews can reclaim propeties lost in '48, internally displaced Israeli Arabs cannot), or land rights (the government has sold 15% of the nation’s land to the Jewish National Fund, which openly prohibits the leasing of land to Israeli Gentiles)…I could go on. Or we can talk about the government’s neglect of Arab communities…why is it that public schools in Jewish areas receive nearly 6 times more government funding per pupil than their counterparts in Arab areas?

I would not claim that everything is pretty and peachy in the Arab/Jewish relationship within Israel. The Israeli-Arab conflict, which is primarily territorial, is far from being settled and the Israeli citizens, Jews and Arabs, are unavoidably a part of it. Consequently, most of the problems revolve around land disputes. Hopefully, when the conflict finally settles, this problems will go away.

At the same time, it should be mentioned that the Israeli anti-discrimination laws have been used many times to prevent the state from abusing its power through successful litigation. Moreover, there are certain regulations in place that protect the Arab interests over the Jewish ones. For example, an Arab can settle in any town in Israel. Preventing him from doing so based on his ethnic/religious background is illegal. At the same time a Jew cannot settle in an Arab town if the local community is against it. This effectively creates areas within the Jewish state, which are off limits for Jewish settlement.

So the situation is quite complicated. Yet I still stand by my original statement that in terms of civil rights and political freedoms the Israeli Palestinians are much better off than their counterparts in the Arab countries.