Cowardly Idf Soldiers, amazing clip

[janab-e-ali]

Re: Cowardly Idf Soldiers, amazing clip

@AlexB

For example, the Arab population could have become citizens of the Arab state and permanent residents of Israel.

Ah, so your first suggestion would be to strip them of their citizenship rights period, which would have simply set them up for expulsion at a latter date. Thank you for proving my point.

@AlexB

Another solution would be a special provision that would make the “Arab” and "Jewish"status of the states “a founding principle” which cannot be eliminated by simple voting.

And that would essentially involve disenfranchisement. Like I said, there was no democratic way to leave the Arabs in place and remain a “Jewish” state.

@AlexB

Regarding the land property, it is incorrect to say that the Arabs would control most of the state’s land. True, most of the land that was privately owned belonged to the Arab owners. However, this was not most of state’s land. In fact, most of the state’s land was not privately owned by anyone.

As of 1945, public properties only accounted for the majority of the land in 1 district in the entire British Mandate (Beersheba). Arabs owned a clear majority of the land in most other districts, and were the single largest land-owning group in every other district.

Source:

Mandate for Palestine

@AlexB

Thanks. They don’t want back. But proper compensation for the lost property would be nice.

They’ve already been offered more than the Zionists have been willing to offer Palestinian refugees.

@AlexB

I agree that many of them objected the title of “a refugee”. They did not want to create an appearance of not wanting to be in Israel. Nevertheless, they were, by all means, refugees who ended up completely dispossessed and living in refugee camps in Israel.

Many of their leaders rejected the title of “refugees” specifically at the time that the Israeli government was attempting to get international recognition for their alleged refugee status and demand compensation from Arab governments.

@AlexB

You original point was that the different attitudes toward the Arab and the Jewish refugees are due to the assymetry in numbers. Well, you are wrong. The conflict created comparable numbers of the refugees on both sides.

The systematic expulsion of the Palestinians is fundamentally different from the migration of Middle Eastern Jews. No Palestinians left by choice because they wanted to seek out a new homeland in Lebanon or Jordan, nor has Israel offered them the right to claim Israeli citizenship and reclaim lost properties. Many Mizrahim, on the other hand, actively claim that they immigrated to Israel out of Zionist fervor, and have been offered the right of return by many of their original homelands. Perhaps most importantly, unlike the Palestinians, outside of a few isolated examples there was no official government campaign to expel the Mizrahim.

Also, why do the Palestinians bear collective responsibility for the actions of outside Arab states? Because they happen to speak Arabic as well? That’s the same vile, malignant logic that Arab mobs used when they were starting pogroms against Middle Eastern Jews.

@AlexB

Yes, the Arabs came to the new lands and “gradually” arabized the locals by making them understand that they’d better accept the new ways of life if they want to continue living there… or just living. Unfortunately, most of those who weren’t compliant enough are no longer here to complain.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, your grasp of Middle Eastern history is very weak and/or poisoned by your fundamentally bigoted political ideologies. The Arablization of the Middle East took place over centuries (it wasn’t till the Abbasid era that local governments in outlying provinces were even transitioned to Arabic), and was, with a few exceptions, primarily the result of local populations realizing that it was politically and socially expedient to learn the language of government and administration. Were it a rapid forced process as your revisionist Zionist textbooks must claim, then Iran (which was fully conquered by the Arabs within a decade of the death of the Prophet Mohammed) would likely be speaking Arabic today.

In any case, it’s nice to see you veering off into completely irrelevent tangents (even after their irrelevance has been pointed out to you), for the sole purpose of spreading largely false/exaggerated anti-Arab propaganda.

@AlexB

I wonder, are your “imperialistic” labels specifically reserved for people whose skin color is assumed to be lighter than yours?

Frankly, I probably look more stereotypically “European” than you do. The label refers to your quasi-colonial attitude towards the Arabs; I have no qualms about using the term for people with darker skin than my own.

@AlexB

However, as it happens in history, civilizations rise and fall, and by the end of 19th century, the condition of the Arab Middle East was exactly as you so eloquently stated - “sporadic tribal settlements, and with no formal concept of nation-states”.

At the end of the 19th century, the Levant was still ruled over by the Ottoman Empire. The lands that currently comprise Israel and the Occupied Territories were, for the most part, included in the Ottoman Vilayet of Jerusalem. Although admittedly in their decline, the Ottomans still presided over a sophisticated bureaucratic state; to claim that they lacked organized government is just your quasi-colonial hubris rearing its ugly head yet again.

@AlexB

BTW, the American continent also hosted great nations and civilizations - for example, the Aztec, the Maya or Inca empire. How imperialistic of you to imply that native Americans were uncivilized!!!

I said that the American continents were mostly comprised of areas without organized governments; a statement I still stand by. I am fully aware of the existence of a handful of Native American empires in South & Central Americas, primarily in the areas colonized by the Spanish. I also believe I clearly pointed out that historians in the Americas today believe that the destruction and ethnic cleansing of the native civilizations of the Americas was a heinous and egrigious criminal act. In distinct contrast to the Zionists, you’ll find few apologists for those massacres here. I believe I also pointed out that all of these nations ultimately offered the descendants of those colonized peoples full citizenship rights, even in those South/Central American states where it meant that they would demographically overwhelm the white descendants of European colonists and in essence take control of the government. Frankly, we wouldn’t be having this discussion right now if the Palestinians had the right to equal citizenship in a secular bi-national state today, but I know that will not happen as it would defy the fundamentally bigoted foundations of the Israeli state.

I believe I also pointed out that if you wanted to use the dominant mores of the middle ages and the colonial era to rationalize Israel’s actions today, then you shouldn’t complain when people compare you to imperialistic barbarians.