Cowardly Idf Soldiers, amazing clip

[janab-e-ali]

@AlexB

There was no “systematic expulsion”. The expulsion was a one time event and it happened when the situation deteriorated to the war of “expel or be expelled”.

100% false.

The exodus of 1948 was only the first stage in the ethnic cleansing of Israel, with the expulsion of an estimated 750,000 Palestinians. Then, during the early 1950’s, Israeli government expelled the Arab residents of villages along the cease fire lines and the Lebanese border, killing a few thousand civilians and exiling another 50,000 or so Palestinians and Bedouins. Following the 1967 war, with the demolition of dozens of villages and refugee camps, another 300,000 Palestinians were expelled. This was systematic ethnic cleansing, period.

@AlexB

But I also stipulate that the Jews tried to avoid this scenario all along and resorted to expulsion only when it became clear that the only alternative was their own expulsion.

And as I have already repeatedly pointed out, even within the parameters of the UN partition plans, Arabs would have formed too much of a demographic block to form a “Jewish state,” not to mention the fact that they would have controlled most of the state’s land. If not expulsion, the Zionist government would have had to disenfranchise its Arab citizens and forcefully strip them of their property at the very least.

Nor do I buy the argument that the Bedouins and villagers who were massacred and expelled were plotting to expel the Jews themselves. That was perhaps the goal of the Arab armies, and could be used as justification for fighting them. But the wholesale ethnic cleansing of Arab civilians was and remains an unjustifiable war crime.

@AlexB

My point is that your arguments of the right to resist uncontrolled immigration of “foreigners” who pose a demographic threat are very popular among the Western right. They looked as they were taken verbatim from their writings.

Like I said, unlike with the Zionists, you have absolutely no proof that there is an organized movement to promote illegal Muslim immigration to any enclave within Europe with the intention of creating a “Muslim state,” making your analogy asinine.

As for my statements about immigration, as I already pointed out, most European nations already have strict immigration laws to prevent an influx of Arab/Muslim immigrants, and I don’t think anyone denies the fact that nations have the right to restrict outside immigration as they see fit.

@AlexB

Well, we were talking about the city of Jerusalem, but if you want to expand the area, no problem. Let’s also take into account 900,000 Jewish refugees who fled the Arab and Muslim countries in the aftermath of the 1948 war. You may argue that Israel benefited from their arrival and that most of them were planning eventual immigration to Israel as good Zionists anyway. But they definitely did not plan to be expelled and having to flee leaving all their property behind. Was it a war crime? Are they entitled to the proper compensation?

1. It isn’t just me. Many Mizrahi and Sephardic Jews themselves (as well as their govenment representatives) emphatically reject the “refugee” label, and openly proclaim that they immigrated to Israel by choice. Many have actively resisted the Israeli government’s attempts to have them labeled as refugees in an attempt to demand compensation from Arab governments.
2. Though they may attempt to rationalize it, even Zionists cannot deny the basic fact that there was an organized campaign to expell Palestinians. In contrast, there were indeed anti-Jewish pogroms and riots throughout the Middle East (fully unconscionable and egregious in their own right…unlike you, I do not attempt to justify the massacre of any civilians), but no organized expulsion. The Israeli government did actively encourage immigration, and Zionist organizations actually carried out terrorist attacks against Arab Jewish communities to further incite mass immigration (as in Iraq). In fact, the Israeli government actively protests when Arab governments attempted to prevent their Jewish citizens from leaving.
3. As for the few places where Jews were actively expelled (Libya, etc), it was indeed a war crime, and all those people should be entitled to return to their home and compensation.
4. Many Arab governments…Iraq, Egypt, Morrocco, Tunisia, among others made it clear that Jews who fled in the aftermath of 1948 are indeed entitled to return and reclaim their citizenship and lost properties.

@AlexB

If you are interested in the question of forceful Arabization, you can ask the Kurds, the Berbers of Northern Africa, or the people of Darfur.

A completely irrelevant point made by someone who’s orginal argument has already been proven as ridiculous. You originally tried to claim that the spread of Arabic beyond the Arabian Peninsula was evidence of migration of an outside population with the subsequent dispossetion and displacement of the aboriginal population, and therefore analogous to the creation of Israel. When I correctly pointed out that this was patently false, and that the phenomenon you speak of was the result of the gradual Arabization of the native peoples of the Middle East, you bring up this utterly irrelevant point.

@AlexB

It is actually a very good description of the Arab Middle East in the beg. 20th century.

Again, your imperialistic arrogance is truly breathtaking.

The Arab Middle East had a long history of organized govenment going back centuries, if not millennia in some areas. We’re talking about the birthplace of written law; your attempts to undermine the validity of Middle Eastern civil society are yet another pathetic attempt at ethnic cleansing apologetics.