Cousin Marriages- a discussion

Re: Cousin Marriages- a discussion

Here is my take on this.. your are going to get married where Allah SWT has wanted to be. Now concerning the cousin marriage and genetic disorders.. I agree that the chance increases but so far there are two people that are close family friends and relatives that have kids with disorders. Now neither of these families have cousin marriage. The point I am trying to make here is that you can justify everything for yourself and your actions but in the end Allah SWT makes the final decesion for us.. cousin marriage is accepted in Islam so there is no reason to justify for others if you feel otherwise. I agree with statistics and numbers but someone else made this point as well.. what are the chances of someone marrying in to a family that has no family history of any diseases? aren't you increasing the chances then? Secondly, I work in the hospital and sometimes NICU is full with children that are born with deformities and other health issues I think as a society we fail to ignore these and focus on genetics only.

Re: Cousin Marriages- a discussion

I so agree…these diseases are turning into a fast MODERN epidemic so even if you try to escape them by not marrying your cousin…there is more than 50 % chance that the next family would also be suffering from either of these diseases :frowning:

Re: Cousin Marriages- a discussion

My bad O_o..Still you can't deny the fact that there is a slight increase in genetic diseases :P

Re: Cousin Marriages- a discussion

^definitely ! alot of diseases have genetic etiology being implicated now. :p

other than the medical point of view about cousin marriages. Cousin marriages do work out fairly well in different cases as both parties have seen each other practically grow up. Nobody's faults are hidden. The family rituals, the habits would be fairly similar if not completely. Common relatives would also make things easier.

there won't be arguments like 'aap ne meri khala ka nahi kiya...ap ki khala jab ati hain tab to ap koi kasr nai chorte khatir madaarat kerne mei' :p

there won't be too many expectations. everything would be transparent. and for the girl it would be easier settling in unlike marriages outside family where you are clueless about the family traditions and values.

on the other hand ...there are alot of negative aspects :p that I would mention in some other post later :D

Re: Cousin Marriages- a discussion

Why don't you mention the negative aspects also? After all this is the place to tell them! O_o

Re: Cousin Marriages- a discussion

But stuff like diabetes and high cholesterol are common in desi families not only because of genetics but also our lifestyles, unhealthy meals etc.. Both my parents are diabetic (but not seriously) and I know because of this I have a far greater risk of developing it but if I keep a healthy lifestyle I might be ok.. Despite being a doctor my dad says I'm too conscious of my weight (typical desi thinking lol) but even if it lessens my chances just a little bit why shouldn't I try to be careful and do as much as I can to prevent it. Being too fatalistic and not even trying to stop this stuff happening is a mentality we have to change.

Re: Cousin Marriages- a discussion

lol ok here goes ..

  1. If both sides have this jealousy syndrome going on b/w them, things can get UGLY

  2. if there is a potential watta-satta then RUN away as fast as you can :D

  3. if there have been rifts and major fights amongst both families even way way before your generation then chances are that your grandparents' faults your chacha mamu's minor mistakes would be rubbed on every single time you commit a minor mistake.

  4. comparison b/w brothers, sisters and family members can mess up things alot of times.

  5. Khalaas and phupos and even the sweetest of Mumaniz have a great tendency to transform into the Evil saas ...when 'my munni jaan' becomes 'churail dayen' kaise mere baite par kabza ker liya hai :D

lol

need I say more? :p

Re: Cousin Marriages- a discussion

I watched this programme and found it amusing when the couples with the genetic disordered kids - denied the fact that the outcome of their offspring is a direct result of genetic abnormalities.

Blaaah.

I admit some families have genetic abnormalities. As a geneticist I saw this in many clinical cases. However, family ties and commitment to marrying in the family - to strengthen ties as well as emotional blackmail (which was covered in the documentary) will continue. For the older generation (40/50s) and maybe for the new generation those in the thier 30/20s when they have their kids- esp those that have the same values as their parents.

I for one - Am also being emotionally blackmailed into what my parents want.

No hunger strikes as yet though....(watch the documentary ;))

Re: Cousin Marriages- a discussion

'nuff said

Re: Cousin Marriages- a discussion

I know from personal experience about the over attachement of some kids to their parents... ugh.

But regardless, why in the world would the parents themselves want a niece/nephew for their DIL or SIL??

Re: Cousin Marriages- a discussion

^ Yeah I read your thread and hopefully everything will work out! :P....There are many reasons why according to me. I guess it's because it allows them to maintain some degree of control over their In-laws. Also it seems a little anti-social to me, showing that people like to remain confined to themselves. Somebody also pointed out that it could be to preserve the family fortune inside the family which seems like another valid point. Or they're just old-fashioned. O_o..Either way I could never ever ever ever marry any of my cousins because there is supposed to be some limit in relations with cousins. Besides, I already told my parents that if they arrange a marriage for me I wont do it. <.<

Re: Cousin Marriages- a discussion

I think in terms of genetic diseases its important not to get mixed up with diseases that are prevelent amongst a certain RACE and come up later in life..i.e. diabteties and high blood pressure and Fatal genetic disorders amongst children.

Re: Cousin Marriages- a discussion

Im sorry to say Mirpuris ARE racist! They always seem to have this jealously in them that you can see in their face. Its sad really! Many MP Ive spoken to dont even call themselves Pakistani or Indian. They call themsevles Kashmiri, even if they are in Pakistani or Indian territory.

I didnt realise MP have a high divorce rate! That’s a new one. Going to have to do a bit of research into that one. :chai:

Re: Cousin Marriages- a discussion

Ok I got a chance to watch this documentary today, I actually felt Tanzeem Ahmed did try her best to produced an unbiased piece of journalism. I actually commend her for actually trying to gather as much information about the issue from a list of variable resources!

The beginning was quite dramatic! The couple who had a 17 year old son who was mentally disabled and the two blind girls was actually quite heart-breaking! I felt the couple was not very well educated and didnt seem to know anything about hereditary diseases. I felt they lacked any basic information about genetic screening or just couldnt comprehend the idea of genetic problems due to first cousin marriages. The lady seemed to rest the blame on the doctors for giving her children strong medicines?! hmm kinda tells you she has a very backward mentality. . .

I can understand the idea of marrying your first cousin because you know the family pre-hand. For example if two families have grown up together and they have children at the similiar age then surely this would prove to be a safer option to marrying someone you barely know! I guess parents want to be certain about who their children will marry - so they and their children can have a successful life. After all its only now that love marriages have become popular.. back in the 18th and 19th century it was usually grandparents who decided whom their grandchildren would marry! Look how fast the world has changed! lol

I couldnt believe the attitude of the first molvi, he either just couldnt be bothered to listen to a lady or just thought felt offended on the whole issue. Obviously he was from abroad, I guess he never faced a moderate women with a brain!

I liked the second molvi he seemed to have the right attitude on how to tackle the issue. Also the fat woman (sorry only was I could describe her!) and the women with the black and cream hijabs and the pakistani doctor seemed to have some encouraging comments too! The Pakistani doctor also seemed to show a straightforward understanding on advising his patients.. I liked his idea of breaking down the genome to the palestinian lady with the baby. lol

The idea of black-mailing does indeed exist and Ive seen people throough that too.. I guess parents still like to keep control of their children even if they reach marriage hood. I might start a topic about that!

Re: Cousin Marriages- a discussion

How does first cousin marriages differ from second cousin marriages? Are the genetic effect/gene pool more varied in second cousins than first cousins?

black prom dress

Re: Cousin Marriages- a discussion

diabetes, high BP, high cholesterol etc…are not necessarily inherited. They depend on lifestyle, diet etc…these are very common amongst Asians in general…so you will be lucky to find a family who doesnt have any of these in their family…i think its the asian diet that has a major role to play…all the oily food, paay, mutton, desi ghee etc. etc.

Re: Cousin Marriages- a discussion

Yeah Mirpuris say that they are not Pakistani…even though they have Pakistani Passports? how ungrateful

Mirpuris have a very HIGH divorce rate…especially the ones here in UK.

Re: Cousin Marriages- a discussion

Yeah, unfortunately they tend to be quite racist and insular.. if they keep importing their relatives over thru marriage it could end up a neverending cycle, the ‘back home’ husbands and wives wanting their own kids to marry their first cousins when they grow up and so on.. The **‘we only marry within family’ **thing is a bit creepy (as well as a bit anti-social) to me.. It’s one of those things that is so deeply ingrained in those who practise it that even when they’re presented with the facts they’ll come up with something like ‘It’s Allah’s will, nothing to do with us.’ Why bother going to hospital if you get Cancer if it’s Allah’s will and you’re going to die anyway?? Only seems to be ‘Allah’s will’ when it suits them, doesn’t it :smack:

Re: Cousin Marriages- a discussion

An article written by the presenter, Tazeen Ahmad:
**
'The greatest taboo: One woman lifts the lid on on the tragic genetic consequences of when first cousins marry.**

Sitting in the family living room, I watched tensely as my mother and her older brother signed furiously at each other. Although almost completely without sound, their row was high-octane, even vicious. Three of my uncles were born deaf but they knew how to make themselves heard. Eventually, my uncle caved in and fondly put his arm around his sister.

My mum has always had a special place in her family because she was the first girl to live beyond childhood. Five of her sisters died as babies or toddlers. It was not until many years later that anyone worked out why so many children died and three boys were born deaf. Today there is no doubt among us that this tragedy occurred because my grandparents were first cousins.

My grandmother’s heart was broken from losing so many daughters at such a young age. As a parent, I can’t imagine what she went through.

**My family is not unique. In the UK more than 50 per cent of British Pakistanis marry their cousins – in Bradford that figure is 75 per cent – **and across the country the practice is on the rise and also common among East African, Middle-Eastern and Bangladeshi communities.

Back when my grandparents were having children, the medical facts were not established.But today in Britain alone there are more than 70 scientific studies on the subject. We know the children of first cousins are ten times more likely to be born with recessive genetic disorders which can include infant mortality, deafness and blindness. We know British Pakistanis constitute 1.5 per cent of the population, yet a third of all children born in this country with rare recessive genetic diseases come from this community.

Despite overwhelming evidence, in the time I spent filming Dispatches: When Cousins Marry, I felt as if I was breaking a taboo rather than addressing a reality. Pakistanis have been marrying cousins for generations.

In South Asia the custom keeps family networks close and ensures assets remain in the family. In Britain, the aim can be to strengthen bonds with the subcontinent as cousins from abroad marry British partners.

Some told us they face extreme pressure to marry in this way. One young woman, ‘Zara’, said when she was 16 she was emotionally blackmailed by her husband’s family in Pakistan who threatened suicide over loss of honour should she refuse to marry her cousin.

She relented and lives in a deeply unhappy marriage. But others told me of the great benefits of first cousin marriage – love, support and understanding. To them, questioning it is an attack on the community or, worse, Islam.

At a Pakistani centre in Sheffield, one man said: ‘The community feels targeted, whether that be forced marriages or first-cousin marriages. The community is battening down its hatches, not wanting to engage.’

As a British Pakistani, I am aware of the religious, cultural and racial sensitivities around this issue and understand why people would be on the defensive when questioned about it.

At times I was torn between explaining the health risks while privately understanding the community’s sense of being demonised. But I have also grown up in a family that has suffered the medical implications and strongly believe that people should have the choice to make an informed decision.

Throughout I had to remind myself that this is a health story – nothing more. It is not about religion or cultural identity. It is about avoidable suffering such at that experienced by Saeeda and Jalil Akhtar, whom I met in Bradford.

They are first cousins and have six children, three with the genetic disease mucolipidosis type IV. This stops the body getting rid of waste properly and affects brain functions controlling vision and movement. ** Mohsin, their second eldest, is 17 and blind. He wanders aimless and helpless, often crying in frustration. His sisters Hina, 13, and Zainab, 11, have the same condition. They live in almost complete darkness. **

Saeeda is worn down from years of round-the-clock care. She spoon-feeds them, dresses them and fears for them. **Neither she nor her husband can quite accept that their familial link is the cause of this pain. **

This is a major public health issue that has huge implications for other services. The cost to the NHS is many millions of pounds.

**On average, a children’s hospital will see 20 to 30 recessive gene disorders a decade, but one hospital in Bradford has seen 165, while British Pakistani children are three times more likely to have learning difficulties, with care costing about £75,000 a year per child. **

However during this investigation we found no efforts to introduce any national awareness-raising campaign. Why? We approached 16 MPs with a significant number of British Pakistani constituents for interview – every one declined. We asked 30 MPs with a high population of British Pakistanis in their seats to give their views in a short survey. Only one, who wanted to remain anonymous, responded, saying anyone who tried to talk about it risked being attacked politically.

A lone voice was Ann Cryer, former Labour MP for Keighley, near Bradford, who said ‘fear of being accused of racism or demonisation’ prevented politicians speaking up.

It is not just British Pakistani families who suffer. Wayne and Sonia Gibbs are white and first cousins once removed. They had no idea this could lead to problems. Their daughter Nicole had juvenile osteopetrosis, a genetic disease that causes the bones to thicken and crush the body’s organs. Nicole died aged two. The couple now know both carry the recessive genes that caused Nicole’s illness. They wanted more children – but had genetic counselling first. They have two healthy boys today.

I have travelled nationwide, meeting doctors and families whose lives are full of pain. To me the solution is simple: **Ring the alarm bells loud and clear. **

In Birmingham, one GP practice has taken radical action. The doctors have campaigned heavily to stop cousin marriages. They have introduced genetic screening and testing for patients, starting at 16, and now claim that very few cousin marriages take place there. My mother tells me that, long before I was born, her siblings and their cousins decided their tragedy would never recur.

The conclusion some will draw is that cousin marriages should be banned. I disagree.** But people must be able to make informed choices about the risks involved and options available, be they genetic screening, counselling or carrier-testing. **

At least there should be leaflets in doctors’ surgeries and school campaigns.

Meeting the families in the programme upset me greatly. Every day for them was an uphill struggle, mostly because their children needed so much help and this put enormous stress on their family lives. Yet this was avoidable. If this were any other health issue, politicians would have been out in force. But they are silent and as a result children continue to be born with terrible, preventable disabilities that are devastating their lives and those of their loved ones.

In response to this story a Department of Health spokesman said: 'The risk of having a child affected by a genetic disorder following cousin marriage is a complex and sensitive issue that is best discussed and assessed with specialised genetics services.

'Through genetic services the NHS runs local initiatives aimed to raise awareness of the risks associated with cousin marriage.'

Source: TAZEEN AHMAD: Three of my uncles are deaf. Five aunts died as babies. Why? My grandparents were first cousins who married | Daily Mail Online


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Re: Cousin Marriages- a discussion

That is shocking stuff Dheeba. I never knew cousin marriages are this dangerous.

No wonder they are banned in US.

Although, I had eligible cousins, in every case, thier facial and other features resembled thier brothers which put me off.
I felt disgusted.
No Thanks

presenter isnt bad looking