Cousin Marriage ... Islam Allows it but.....

Re: Cousin Marriage ... Islam Allows it but.....

Yes but I was saying the same thing ... I said the issue is a race problem rather than a cousin problem ... Admittedly the cousin chain becomes the race problem ... But only if there are other factors at play ... These are marrying cousins out of obligation rather than by desire ... Because obligation will mean the genetically and otherwise naturally un-selectable people will end up getting married and having kids ... Whereas if cousin marriages were allowed out of natural desires then probably only the fittest cousins would inter-marry hence eliminating the problem of congenital disorders ... The reason is therefore not the cousin marriage, but in the practice of marrying biologically undesirable people who happen to be from the family or from the tribe.

Islam allows us to marry cousins, but it advises us to marry the best as well ... So health, beauty are factors that we should be looking for ... The reports are making it out that cousin marriages cause mutations in genes, but that is not true ... the mutations are already there ... Where we would otherwise naturally breed them out, by only marrying the fittest cousins, our customs are preventing that when we start marrying any cousin ... regardless of their conditions.

And certain traits are favourable too ... Sometimes breeding out a problem also means breeding out a benefit on the flip side. It may be that we are more prone to disease, but it may also be that we are more fertile ... Who knows?

I still think it is vendetta against cousin marriages designed to shed bad light on Muslims to suit certain political agendas.

Re: Cousin Marriage ... Islam Allows it but.....

Well you seem to think you know everything being phoenix and desi. With your phoenixness combined with your desiness, you don't need to wait for ulema. You know better than them, so why don't you go ahead and make your own fatwa? with your combined phoenixness and desiness, I'm sure you'll see the practice disappear. Make your own fatwa here, ask the mods to sticky it and give it a couple of days and let's see what happens. I'm sure you'll enlighten the masses in no time.

Re: Cousin Marriage ... Islam Allows it but.....

that is fine...we can agree to disagree on certain points....to be honest, this whole notion of "undesirable/naturally unfit cousins marrying each other out of obligation and thus producing unhealthy babies" and "healthier/fitter cousins producing better congenital results" is new to me and not sure what is the evidence....anyway, what i have heard from the scientific community does not support these theorems whatsoever.....and i do have some anecdotal experience as well.... my wife's side, who belongs to a "landlord" family with several generations marrying to each other to keep the land in the family, has some horror stories that I have seen firsthand....they were definitely "fitter cousins" but the result was not so good!

and i am disturbed by your last sentence as well....you seem like a smart guy but you had to say this... dont you? conspiracy theories by hanood yahood nisara to defame muslims....huh

anyway, thx for your analysis and a healthy debate....

Re: Cousin Marriage ... Islam Allows it but.....

oho......i just read your signature...I am so scared now...please spare me

*"Tell your assassin to aim for her head...because she doesn't have a heart"
*
sir jee tussi tay sidha head wich goli marday ho..............hayaee o meray rabba....mera kee banay ga!!!

Re: Cousin Marriage ... Islam Allows it but.....

You're scared of a signature that's from a quote that's almost 4 years old? Nice. Will that also be considered in your Qiyas?

It's not a conspiracy.

The Germans living under Nazi rule never believed the Jews were being treated so horribly bcos they were led to believe otherwise, thru media. It does not mean the Holocaust never happened.

Re: Cousin Marriage ... Islam Allows it but.....

janab you think i am being sarcastic but i am telling u from bottom of my heart that i am really impressed of your brilliance as well as a bit scared of your presence....your confidence is so inspiring! meriee kayaa majal i can do any qiyas in your presence.....qibla why dont you do it for us!

Re: Cousin Marriage … Islam Allows it but…

There’s good and bad. You’ve highlighted a bad case, probably the worst case there is. It definitely shows the negatives, but you can’t say it represents the idea overall.

Go Ahead, Kiss Your Cousin | DiscoverMagazine.com
Generally speaking, cousin marriage carries the same risk as a 40 yr woman when looking at kids/births.

After reading and skimming the topic, I don’t really understand the hoopla. Just like polygamy is allowed, so too is cousin-marriage. Neither are outright musts, nor are they “do-nots.” It is an option given. So inherently, one has leeway in the decision.

As with most things, one should use his common sense and discretion. If there is a family that has a history of excessive interbreeding and/or problems are being found in children of these marriages, then it would be better to avoid these marriages and seek to marry outside.

Re: Cousin Marriage ... Islam Allows it but.....

achaa jee?...thank you very much!

bhot bhot sukarya for solving "hoopla" in minutes... and for "skimming" the topic!

I have low IQ but in light of your advice, i will try my best to use common sense and discretion when i decide to marry 2nd, 3rd and 4th time! damn no cousins...

jazak allah brother....

Re: Cousin Marriage ... Islam Allows it but.....

Anytime.

Just try to check out the link I posted too. It puts a lot of into perspective.

Re: Cousin Marriage ... Islam Allows it but.....

sure i willl...

Re: Cousin Marriage … Islam Allows it but…

Peace phoenixdesi

Now that we have the science part out of the way … the Islamic ijtihad is already being done … but people are not taking notice of it.

SeekersGuidance - Did the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) Discourage Marrying Cousins? – Answers

SeekersGuidance - The Ruling of First Cousin Marriages: A Balanced Perspective – Answers

In both of these articles the scholars are trusting the scientific evidence … and it appears there are many reports from Muslims of the past with similar concerns - including Sayyiduna Umar (RA) and Imam Al-Ghazali (RA).

So although I am not as convinced by the science as Allah (SWT) determines ultimately what will happen in every case and du’a counts for a lot … The scholars are doing their bit by taking on balanced perspectives and considering the science verdicts too.

The ulema of today generally consider cousin marriages permissible they will discourage cousin marriages at least in three generations. So I don’t believe anything other than bringing more awareness in to our communities is necessary.

Re: Cousin Marriage … Islam Allows it but…

Need to read this more indepth but posting here for others in the meantime. Seems relevant: Colloquium Paper: Consanguinity, human evolution, and complex diseases

Re: Cousin Marriage ... Islam Allows it but.....

Which religion (in its original form) specifically prohibits cousin marriage?

Interesting that those people who are perfectly fine with gay marriages find cousin marriage disturbing.

I will only add my personal observation. My wife is a Rajput and as far as I know mine was their first marriage in generations outside their Bradri. In fact, it was amusing to find out at times that I was a Rajput for distant relatives for whatever reasons.

However, I have observed that (possibly) because of these inter-marriages, these Rajputs are suffering from a lot of Autoimmune diseases. Migranes, Arthritis, Diabetes, Heart diseases are common. Newer generations are suffering more than the older generations, despite the improvements in medical facilities. Life expectancy is low.

Re: Cousin Marriage ... Islam Allows it but.....

I've done some more checking up and I have found some interesting facts out ...

The issue is more significant in the UK than in Pakistan ...

In Pakistan in 2010 a total of 42682 deaths were recorded resulting from Congenital Diseases compared to a massive 159668 deaths in children resulting from Acute Respiratory Diseases. The number of children in Pakistan below the age of 5 that died in 2010 was around 0.85 Million,

Now in the UK in 2010 a total of 2342 deaths were recorded resulting in Congenital Diseases compared to only 352 respiratory related deaths. A total of 8654 children below the age of 5 died in 2010 in the UK.

This means that 5% of child deaths in Pakistan were a result of Congenital diseases but a much higher value of 19% were resultant from respiratory problems.

Conversely the 27% of the UK deaths for the same age range were a result of Congenital disease and only 4% were a result of acute respiratory problems.

Whereas much can be done to eliminate the diseases of external factors - very little can be done to eliminate congenital diseases - unless of course things are taken to the genetic level. Procreation and hence gene pool is the likely candidate for inspection.

I also calculated after normalising the two populations together that Pakistan's Congenital deaths number slightly over 3 times worse than in the UK.

What needs to be established however is whether Congenital Diseases are worsened or escalated due to cousin marriages or if there is an alternative to finding out using blood tests or something like that - which gives the couple the choice to marry or not.

Also it is important to find out what proportion of Congenital Diseases are NOT a result of cousin marriages and how much are ...

Re: Cousin Marriage … Islam Allows it but…

Well, yes. A lot can be tested for and there has actually been a huge drive to educate people in the high risk areas (e.g. Bradford, East London). There is plenty of information about genetic diseases easily available. Unfortunately, it’s a topic that is inaccurately represented in the media (who would have thought?). In fact, most science reporting in the media is woefully inadequate and they generally get the wrong end of the stick.

http://www.geneticdisordersuk.org/

I was working on various REF case studies a few months ago so I am most familiar with genetically caused congenital deafness. You can read some of Prof Maria Bitner-Glindzicz research.

Great Ormond Street Hospital offers genetic testing specifically for establishing stuff like this. In areas where there are large communities where cousin marriage is occurring, GPs do refer couples for testing.

Re: Cousin Marriage ... Islam Allows it but.....

Having too much red meat, or ghee or butter, or oily food in your diet is also very bad for you and will lead to your death from heart trouble.

Cousin marriages are the same thing. They are allowed, but if done to excess within a family for generations will lead to such complications.

Just as red meat is not banned by ijtihad etc, neither should cousin marriages. Both are clearly bad, but only if done to excess.

Re: Cousin Marriage ... Islam Allows it but.....

Afraid of a signature then afraid of my presence. You sure seem to get scared a lot for nothing.

Re: Cousin Marriage ... Islam Allows it but.....

everyone..thx for your input. Both parties have made their case, at least I have and I certainly appreciate the healthy debate,

happy new year