Hi everyone,
Ive been a silent reader of this forum for a long time. I am posting a question on behalf of a friend who believes that she and her husband need couples counseling. Has anyone gone for couples counseling?
Background:
My friend and her husband have been together for approximately five years. It was an arranged marriage but both grew to mutually love and care for one another. Her husband doesn’t have any family as in his parents died when he was in his 20s and is an only child. My friend comes from a very large and fairly obnoxious family. After they got married, the girl applied for the husbands greencard and while they were waiting for the stuff to process, the guy was out of a job for a long time as well. This caused alot of resentment between the couple because each side had certain expectations and according to each of them, none of the expectations were met. The guy wanted the girl to be more understanding of his situation and the girl wanted a grander relationship because this was her first relationship ever while the guy had been with other girls before her. The guy eventually got a job but it wasnt in his field and he constantly would complain about his job as it was not in his field. This caused even more friction between the couple.
the guy got a good job eventually as well as the girl and so the girl thought things would be better as in her husband would be in a better mood etc. It turned out to be the exact opposite. The guy got completely obsessed about his job as it took him so long to get the job that he was afraid of losing it, he didn’t want to move to a better apt/house until all the debts were paid off (which my friend understands). The biggest issue she’s having is the fact that her husband constantly berates her family (not in front of them). Alot of his resentment stems from the fact that her family wasn’t exactly supportive while they were struggling. It got so bad that the guy refused to go anywhere that was associated with her family and would have the girl makeup silly excuses as to why he wasn’t there. He would only see her family every couple of months even though she lives 20min from her parents.
I’ve also noticed and what she’s told me that the guy isn’t exactly supportive of her. He gets upset very easily and calls her a bunch of names when he’s upset. There latest argument is the fact that she wants to do a post wedding dawat for her sister who just got married but her husband cant understand why she needs to do one since they already gave money at the wedding.
Given all this, she thinks that if maybe they go to counseling, it will allow them to communicate better and improve their relationship. However, her husband doesn’t want to go. What can she do to convince him to go?
I dont think that the situation calls for counseling. Its more of misunderstanding than anything else. They both need to talk, and willingly give each other a little room.
Also, it looks like she has more expectations from him, then he has from her. She should lower her level of expectations.
I do think this couple could benefit from counseling in that they need a neutral 3rd party to sit down with them and help them communicate since they clearly are not able to do it on their own. However, marriage counseling is useless if BOTH parties are not open to seeking the help. It sounds like BOTH of them made mistakes in the past, and both have held onto hurt feelings/resentments from the past.
1) You mention things related to how they used to be ....as in he used to be obsessed with his job, refused to go out with her family etc. Are those things still happening today? Are all their financial debt paid off right now? I know that her family lives 20 minutes away...but how often does she expect him to see her family? Is her family supportive of him right now?
2) Given the tension/resentment in her marriage that exists already.....I think your friend needs to really think about what's important to her. While I understand the sentimental value of wanting to throw a post-wedding dawat for her sister, is it really worth having a huge argument with her husband and causing even more tension in her marriage?
3) Along with the guy, the girl also is resentful/hurt from things that have happened in the past/happening right now. Just b/c the guy is refusing to go to counseling with her, that does not mean that she can't go by herself and start working in her own communication skills and how she handles issues in her marriage.
Both of them need to be receptive for couples counseling to work but she can benefit from solo counselling. They both need to learn how to let grudges go and the guy needs to leave behind his self esteem issues and learn how to deal with extended family. If he doesn't learn how now he's not going to be a good parent either (if they plan to have kids) because he cannot cut himself off from people who live in his house if they annoy him.
The guy is still currently obsessed with his job. My friend understands that his career means alot to him but he psycho analyzes every conversation he has with his boss. I guess what gets to her is that he isn't really confident at all. He constantly scared about what if something bad happens and in there in the position they were in when they weren't working in their fields. Both are very scared of going back to that place but the guy more so than the girl. He still has a hard time seeing her family which sucks alot because my friend has a new brother in law and although her husband has gone over to her house more than usual, he still has a hard time going. During her sister's wedding, her husband was very difficult. He doesn't like wearing the traditional clothes, dances etc and during some of the events didn't talk to many people at all. He just sat in a corner and was on his phone alot. This led to alot of people asking what was wrong with him, especially her family. Eventually that led to the inevitable question, is something wrong in the marriage?
I think my friend gave up alot in terms of the relationship..we both were in PhD programs together and while I finished mine she just got a masters and moved back to her hometown. She said that she would just get admission into a school in her hometown as the guy couldn't find a job in the town. Well they both moved back to the hometown and it took them a long time to get settled. My friend still hasn't applied to phD programs as she has a good government job and she's torn on whether to pursue her phD because she knows that her job very stable and good paycheck but she isnt moving up and the job is pretty monotonous. They also don't have much of a social circle because they both are in a sense new to the town as they just moved back a couple of years ago which is why I think she relied on her family alot more... I think she's finding it hard to make friends because she feels sometimes for couples that are married but don't have kids its hard to find other couples like that. The majority of people are either single or married with kids. She says its hard to find couples in the middle.
^ Sounds like all this happened recently. It will take time for him to settle down in his job and feel confident financially.
Meanwhile given that they are not settled financially, this is not the time for her to quit her stable job and go back to school. That will put them in more debt and cause him even more stress. I can't given any career advice without knowing specifics but if she's not happy at her job, is PhD the ONLY solution to moving up/making more money? She can't look for another job...possibly in the private sector?
As for friends...they've been living in this town for several YEARS! Just b/c she's married, that does not mean she can only be friends with other married women. Her husband needs to see her hanging out with people other than her family. If she can't find other couples, tell her to start becoming friends with single women b/c that could always lead to her meeting more people...potentially other married couples.
What do they, as a couple, do for fun? Do they spend time doing activities that does not involve her family? Any hobbies they share?
P.S. The girl knew she was marrying someone who she would need to sponsor for green card and who could possibly be out of a job for a while after he moves here. Being an only child and with dead parents, the guy had only his wife/in-laws to go to for support at a point in his life where he probably felt like a loser. Yet he did not get that support. Its completely understandable why he feels the resentment that he does....especially given that he does not have a family on his side to turn to for any support. He probably still feels very alone. While I don't doubt that your friend compromised for this marriage....that's not to say that she/her family did everything right. BOTH sides made mistakes.
Didn't read others input so I can give an independent opinion.
Husband wanting to pay off debt - wonderful. Very responsible (as you agreed)
Husband meeting her family only once in two months - very understandable. Per ur post, they r obnoxious. We're not supportive when he was down on his luck. Tough to get over that. Especially if her family has not apologized either in words or through action
Husband berating his wife. The only example u provided was his reluctance for his wife's sisters dawat. Connect the dots. The wife's sister probably was among those who kicked him when he was down.
The wife needs to be understanding AND supportive of her husband. His berating her probably has something to do with her not being supportive of him.
Rather than FORCE him to go for joint counseling, she should modify her behavior and attitude towards him.
Yeah I agree with you guys that she does need to be more sensitive to her husband and perhaps lower her expectations.
I've been friends with her for a long time (over 10 years) and I think what ultimately gets to her is that her life was going a certain way (like getting her PhD etc) and when she got married she didn't realize how much she would have to sacrifice. So now she's having a hard time adjusting herself. She got married young as well (23) and she partly did it because her parents were after her for a long time to get married and this was the first decent guy she saw. The guy himself is pretty good looking, smart and decent human being.
I think also the girl has high expectations because of the people she's surrounded by people who are very materialistic. So mentally she's always comparing herself in terms of the engagement ring, who had the better wedding Better apt/house etc. This doesn't set well with her husband obviously and he's even more aloof because he hasn't ever lived in a family setting. Even when his parents were alive he attended boarding school.
^ Like I said earlier, your friend should start counseling and work on herself for now. If her own attitude/expectations/resentment is adjusted....that itself may make a big difference in her marriage.
^ her husband actually was a student here in the us. When he was in college his dad died and his mom had a died a couple of years before. So he had to finish college by himself ( he was in the uk at this time) and then he came to the us on a student visa to get a masters in engineering which he paid by working odd jobs and taking out loans
^ well my friends parents knew his potential when they said yes to the rishta. Granted at the time he didn't really have a job or status. But my friend saw that he was really westernized and had other good qualities which is why she said yes. I don't think either of them realized how much sacrifice each one would make. Her parents yeah are a bit demanding but they aren't unreasonable. They've never been mean to him or spoken to him rudely. Yeah when he was looking for a job they did ask people to help him and they were concerned because of their daughter.
I think the guy has def internalize all of this which has made him resentful and bitter towards her family so he would def benefit from counseling if she could get him to go
^ from 2009- 2012 he didn't work in his field but he still had a job. It just wasn't in his field
Perhaps give him some more time?
I am not sure if you ladies know or not but for most of the guys, being unemployed (or working in non-related field) is a slap (or we feel like it). We feel helpless if this goes on for long because its our basic responsibility to put bread on the table. Men also go through all sort of mental disintegration during the period and sometimes it takes longer to recover and get back the self belief
If its a desi counsellor then it might help, but don't think a western person will understand our culture n expectations.
I think the girl has quite high expectations. Pakistani guys tend to not forget anything, esp when it comes from the girls family, so she should have bin very careful in what she shared with her husband about what her family was saying when he wasn't working. I think the amount he sees her family is enough, no need to overdo it.
I think what they need is a fresh start away from her family.
I talked to my friend and she agreed to go to therapy at least initially by herself. Maybe she can learn better ways of communication and encourage her husband to come as well.
Going back to my original question, has anyone gone to therapy/counseling to overcome obstacles in their marriage?
Your friend should go for some counseling sessions on her own and when she comes home discuss stuff with him that only speaks from his side of the story. Once he sees a dialogue starting and that his concerns are being met (while he is absent at the sessions) it might make him feel ok enough to actually attend a session. I highly doubt he never mentioned everything he was pissed off about before.
Also, he has a much bigger fear of losing his job because he feels alone. He has no one to fall back on. Your friend might leave him at any time instigated by her family (although highly unlikely) and he has no parents, siblings, financially well settled relatives in the US, he's not a citizen himeself yet etc. So his fear is very real to him, to him it probably feels like imminent danger and to ur friend it must just be a bunch of what ifs and being paranoid about nothing. So here definitely it seems like communications is key. The guy needs to be talked down from his insecurities about their future and ur friend needs to understand where he's coming from and also to adjust her expectations.
An outright embarrassing apology from the girls family is probably not what's required but what i think would be highly beneficial is if the dad somehow had a casual quiet one on one conversation with him (without making it look staged) about how proud he is of his son in law and his accomplishments (whatever they might be, making it to this point without having parents, managing student loans, being a nice well rounded person etc.) and that though at some point in the past he may have felt troubled about how the couple will manage their future that today he is very thankful that Allah helped him make the right decision and indeed He is the best Planner. He can give examples of how his son's (ur friend's brother or whoever elses) success has been so dependent on him (the girls dad) and how much he has had to push him so he could make something of himself but sil is so cool that he did all this on his own. Etc etc. so basically try to reiterate all the positive stuff in words and I think it will help a lot in curbing te animosity e feels towards his wife's family.
But in this case where there are no actual problems and mostly misunderstandings and miscommunication, some sort of counseling should really help inshaAllah.