Could Bush be Right?

Liberals, Leftys, and Know-it-All Guppies; are you prepared to admit you may be wrong?

What if Bush has been right about Iraq all along?

February 1, 2005

BY MARK BROWN SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST

Maybe you’re like me and have opposed the Iraq war since before the shooting started – not to the point of joining any peace protests, but at least letting people know where you stood.

You didn’t change your mind when our troops swept quickly into Baghdad or when you saw the rabble that celebrated the toppling of the Saddam Hussein statue, figuring that little had been accomplished and that the tough job still lay ahead.

Despite your misgivings, you didn’t demand the troops be brought home immediately afterward, believing the United States must at least try to finish what it started to avoid even greater bloodshed. And while you cheered Saddam’s capture, you couldn’t help but thinking I-told-you-so in the months that followed as the violence continued to spread and the death toll mounted.

By now, you might have even voted against George Bush – a second time – to register your disapproval.

But after watching Sunday’s election in Iraq and seeing the first clear sign that freedom really may mean something to the Iraqi people, you have to be asking yourself: What if it turns out Bush was right, and we were wrong?

It’s hard to swallow, isn’t it?

Americans cross own barrier

If you fit the previously stated profile, I know you’re fighting the idea, because I am, too. And if you were with the president from the start, I’ve already got your blood boiling.

For those who’ve been in the same boat with me, we don’t need to concede the point just yet. There’s a long way to go. But I think we have to face the possibility.

I won’t say that it had never occurred to me previously, but it’s never gone through my mind as strongly as when I watched the television coverage from Iraq that showed long lines of people risking their lives by turning out to vote, honest looks of joy on so many of their faces.

Some CNN guest expert was opining Monday that the Iraqi people crossed a psychological barrier by voting and getting a taste of free choice (setting aside the argument that they only did so under orders from their religious leaders).

I think it’s possible that some of the American people will have crossed a psychological barrier as well.

Deciding democracy’s worth

On the other side of that barrier is a concept some of us have had a hard time swallowing:

Maybe the United States really can establish a peaceable democratic government in Iraq, and if so, that would be worth something.

Would it be worth all the money we’ve spent? Certainly.

Would it be worth all the lives that have been lost? That’s the more difficult question, and while I reserve judgment on that score until such a day arrives, it seems probable that history would answer yes to that as well.

I don’t want to get carried away in the moment.

Going to war still sent so many terrible messages to the world.

Most of the obstacles to success in Iraq are all still there, the ones that have always led me to believe that we would eventually be forced to leave the country with our tail tucked between our legs. (I’ve maintained from the start that if you were impressed by the demonstrations in the streets of Baghdad when we arrived, wait until you see how they celebrate our departure, no matter the circumstances.)

In and of itself, the voting did nothing to end the violence. The forces trying to regain the power they have lost – and the outside elements supporting them – will be no less determined to disrupt our efforts and to drive us out.

Somebody still has to find a way to bring the Sunnis into the political process before the next round of elections at year’s end. The Iraqi government still must develop the capacity to protect its people.

And there seems every possibility that this could yet end in civil war the day we leave or with Iraq becoming an Islamic state every bit as hostile to our national interests as was Saddam.

Penance could be required

But on Sunday, we caught a glimpse of the flip side. We could finally see signs that a majority of the Iraqi people perceive something to be gained from this brave new world we are forcing on them.

Instead of making the elections a further expression of “Yankee Go Home,” their participation gave us hope that all those soldiers haven’t died in vain.

Obviously, I’m still curious to see if Bush is willing to allow the Iraqis to install a government that is free to kick us out or to oppose our other foreign policy efforts in the region.

So is the rest of the world.

For now, though, I think we have to cut the president some slack about a timetable for his exit strategy.

If it turns out Bush was right all along, this is going to require some serious penance.

Maybe I’d have to vote Republican in 2008.
http://www.suntimes.com/output/brown/cst-nws-brown01.html

Re: Could Bush be Right?

He wasn’ right, the neocons were. I love University of Chicago. If my next life, I want to go there. :jhanda:

Re: Could Bush be Right?

Bush is definetly the Hitler in disguise.

As for your 24/7 coverage of how great Bush and his policies are for the world it just shows you how low iq levels amerikkans must have to actually belive the crap this coming to you day in day out!

To compare the left liberal wingies to the propoganda machine of the nazis is an understatment to say the least. Goebbels could'nt even compete with Bush when it comes to pure propoganda!

Posted on Behalf of AK47…. Before he posts it himself. Thank you.

Re: Could Bush be Right?

Mark appears to be a ten year old lad giddy to have gotten space in a newspaper for his garbage!

If the US wants to be so benevolent and spend somebody elses kids and money to establish "Democracies" in the Middle East, all they have to do is stop supporting the dictators who are preventing Democracies from flourishing in the region. It's THAT simple.

It won't cost taxpayers $80b and it would keep American kids in schools and colleges instead of playing Rambo without humvee armour..

Re: Could Bush be Right?

*Liberals, Leftys, and Know-it-All Guppies; are you prepared to admit you may be wrong?
*

I don't know if I fit squarely into any of those categories, but I disagree with the premise that if one was against the war, the elections mean they were wrong. Wrong about what? I never said democracy wasn't possible in Iraq, that was never an issue.

Even IF peaceful democracy does come to Iraq, it doesn't mean that the US didn't go to war under false premises. Bush knew from the beginning that the reason for war was to install a friendly, stable, long-term friend in the Middle East. I'm not saying that isn't a worthy goal, but the way it was presented assumes we are all stupid or that it doesn't matter if we lie - the ends justify the means.

Re: Could Bush be Right?

^ no it is not.

Re: Could Bush be Right?

you can still go there, there are lots of janitorial openings :stuck_out_tongue:

to the topic, what is right and what is wrong? you can look at it from any skewed angle, unless you are arrogant, you’d say it was wrong to go and invade Iraq. you can cry us a river, you have already flooded a blood river, but what was wrong yesterday will be wrong tomorrow in my dictionary.

Re: Could Bush be Right?

For a moment, lets forget about WMD. The new justification is that US wants to bring democracy (to Iraq and to the region). Not just elections.

As Fareed Zakaria points out “]In Africa](http://www.fareedzakaria.com/articles/newsweek/042103.html), 42 of the continent’s 48 countries have held elections in the last decade, but almost none of them have produced genuine democracy.” Elections is just part I of a long road. There is a real risk that after the elections Iraq can go down in a catastrophic civil war. If that happens, the elections will be remembered more as a disaster than an accomplishment. On the other hand, it may result in a genuine leader to come up who will pull Iraq together and be a great statesman. In essence, the jury is still out. So hold on to your champaign bottles (for neocons) and your apologies (for the lefties etc), and lets see how the situation unfolds.

Re: Could Bush be Right?

History is a funny thing. Imagine for a moment that some form of democracy erupts in Iraq. (And the Iraqi people are far more sophisticated than most African states). In 20 years the domino effect of Iraqi forming a (an Islamic Democracy) democracy could be very substantial.

Will anybody remember the "resistance". Will anybody remember the WMD? Perhpas not.

Re: Could Bush be Right?

^ There is nothing wrong with being an optimist. We all agree there were mistakes made. I think at the end of the day we all want the best for Iraqi people and for the people of the region (I hope). However celebrations or concessions speech at this point, are premature. And I say it will all seriousness and from a fairly unbiased position.

Jumping the gun too early resulted in Bush standing on a naval ship with a "Mission Accomplished" sign in May 2003. Be patient, and let events unfold. Whats the hurry to claim victory (especially when its nowhere close)?

Re: Could Bush be Right?

As sound and credible this argument looks on face it is not true. The very nature of the dictatorship is that it can survive without any external support - it is based on control, big stick and brainwashing of innocent civilians. There have been/are dozens of dictatorships in the world in history that US or anyone else did not support but they lasted a long time. External non-interference is as good for a dictator as is external support. He wins either way.

Did it ever occur to you that there may be..may be a possibility that there may be soem other reason behind dictatorships in the muslims world regardless of US existence? I can bet you my life with that 80% of the dictators (that you say US supports) will be replaced by some other kind of dictators if US stops supporting them.

Re: Could Bush be Right?

do ends justify the means?

whether or not the in the long run the war may be good for iraqis does not mean that the war itself was justified.

Re: Could Bush be Right?

Bush has been so wrong about Iraq.

2003 he says “We invade because they have WMDs”

2005 and still no weapons found

Satan Bush has signed USA’s death warrant

USA will be destroyed in the not too distant future

Look:

http://www.sollog.com/prophecies/benwar.txt

Re: Could Bush be Right?

Khomeini made soothing sounds before assuming power too....

Re: Could Bush be Right?

It may have been true decades ago, but in today’s Global village the carrot and stick go a long way.. Unless u wish to be lil Kim.. but let’s not forget, even he has China winking and nodding in the background..

well the bet is on..History is on my side so u better have insurance.

If the US is really that honest.. lets begin by calling for “Democracy” in China.. ..admit it Chan jee.. this Government will only “spread democracy” where people can’t fire back.

Re: Could Bush be Right?

Interesting, 3 days out of the elections and suddenly Iraq is an American success?

I myself have razzed the jihad kids here on Gupshup about the election being a victory for Iraq but to pretend that Bush was justified in what he has done...I simply can't do that with a straight face.

Iraq god willing will be a success and seeds of democracy will have been planted that treats all groups equal and with respect when all is said and done but even if that happens that doesn't change the fact that the Gulf War II for America was a failure.

If someone’s cuts my arm off and then I cut off their head I don't consider that a victory, and those who do are thinking in black and white terms whose day has long passed.

Iraq is no longer about victory, it’s about avoiding a loss, and while I'm certain that goal can be attained if done right, make no mistake, that is not a victory.

Re: Could Bush be Right?

what if sistani's guys win? it'll be another 'elected' government following orders from Ayatullahs ala Iran. So the domino effect just might be the strengthening of Iran. just in time too..