KKNIAZI:
[quote]
"A culture only flourishes n evolve within its surroundings so Paki. culture can only be in Pak.those who think that they can practice it elsewhere are heading south for North pole. "
[/quote]
This is a very simplistic view of culture that you hold and one that is not in touch
with reality. The third generation of Pakistanis are growing up here in the UK with the passage of time it is inevitable that our communities in the UK will be affected by our surroundings and consequently our original cultural values will change.
As time passes you will begin to see increasing differences between those of us
living here in the UK and native Pakistanis. There are differences between Pakistanis
living in the UK and Pakistan already and these differences will become more marked with each successive generation. My site attempts to capture our culture here in the UK as it exists today NOT as you or anyone would wish it to be. It is a 'tell it like it is' site.
[quote]
"BTW, Buying land is still a good investment in “corrupt” Pak."
[/quote]
Yes if your willing to hire thugs and pay hefty bribes to ensure no one takes it.
[quote]
"In our society VALUES play an important role. We believe in COLLECTIVISM
rather then INDIVIDUALISM therefore we’ve stronger family system then civilized
West. This is one of the reason we’ve got far less Divorce rate then West, virtually
no cases of Granny dumping and shoving parents in the nursing homes."
[/quote]
Yes my site talks about the collective attitude versus the individual liberty approach. It was only an attempt to explain the behaviour of Pakistanis who force their daughters into arranged marriages. Your proud comment regarding the lower divorce rate in Pakistan is irrelevant. Few women in Pakistan have the option to divorce.
[quote]
“Learn to love yourself” I reckon totally misinterpreted by you. I believe when someone loves oneself then he/she values the LOVE and therefore respect others for whatever the person is whether Chamar, Kasai etc. "
[/quote]
You've clearly misunderstood. The learning to love yourself you've quoted from the Notes section of my site and then you try to marry it with text from the racial tribes section. Two unrelated sections of the site !
[quote]
"Marriages in UK:-
Relations in PK. may be the case with u but it was never the case when an Entrepreneur (shopowner) in N’castle told me that He’ll marry in PK. ‘cause local PK. girls are “Bohut Nakhray Wali” and a computer scientist in London told me that he imported his wife from Pk. ‘cause he wants to practice n preserve his culture (absurd). BTW, You are probably generalizing your family rituals to every Pakistani
marriage."
[/quote]
Let me reiterate; My site attempts to capture our culture here in the UK as it exists today NOT as you or anyone would wish it to be. The fact of the matter is that the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis here in the UK marry their cousins. This often entails a trip to Pakistan. In the section on marriage rituals I have explicitly stated that not all families will practice every ritual. They are all listed in order to make this section comprehensive.
[quote]
"Valima:-
Its a muslim tradition n can’t be banned in PK. though eatables are not allowed
anymore. Can u please straighten your records? "
[/quote]
A waleema without eatables ! Surely a Waleema is a feast by definition. I'll have a look at some religious sources, if you can have a Waleema without a feast I'll edit the site accordingly.
[quote]
"High Divorce Rate:-
It cud be ‘cause of your UNIQUE IDENTITY n English as first Lang., isn’t it? "
[/quote]
I mention English as a first language matter of factly, you seem to interpret it as a source of pride ? It is a change that I mention as it is one of the most significant changes that have taken place. We have a situation here in the UK where the first language of the parents differs from that of their children. The high divorce rate has many possible causes which I cannot go into in this short post. I take exception to your cheap jibe as divorce is a very
serious subject.
[quote]
"Cousin Marriages:-
In later chap. of Qur’aan (Holy book of Muslims’), it gives the defination of
Mehrum i.e. relations one can’t marry and Na-Mehrum-: Rest of the people and
cousins fall in this category which ultimately brings the concept of HIJAAB. Prophet followed same so do we. I found your reasoning “FOOLISH”.
Reasons against:-
It is because of gener. of inter-cousin (3,4 Gen.) marriages causing identical
blood grouping and genetical disorders as far as my knowledge is concerned. "
[/quote]
The reasons that you find foolish are not mine, I have tried to explain why some
Pakistanis consider it Sunnat to marry a cousin. It is a justification for cousin
marriages that I have heard from many Pakistanis.
In breeding causes problems from the first generation onwards and not after successive
generations as you seem to think. The problem worsens with successive generations. You can educate yourself about the consequences of in-breeding by reading the following article:
Phuppi Ki Beti, Mamoon ka Beta
www.chowk.com/UniversityAve/azaidi_mar0698.html"
[quote]
"Arai:- Thanx for enlighting me, never heard of them and FYI Bin Qasim never
entered from Persia rather landed in Deebal (1hr. drive from Khi.) in Sindh to
rescue Arab traders who were prisoned by Raja (King) Daahir. not to spread
Islam, dearest sir. Take a peek in history, can u? "
[/quote]
If you live in the UK then buy a copy of the Jang newspaper and have a look at the
matrimonial columns. You'll find plenty of Arai's asking for other Arais for marriage.
I personally know of many Arai.
Thankyou for educating me about Bin Qasim, at last some decent feedback ! I'll update
the relevant section. Thanks.
[quote]
"Mirpuri:-
They are from Mirpur as u said, its not a tribe. By your this defination Karachiites,
Lahoris and Islamabadians belong to a TRIBE as well. I found it quite discriminating but I don’t blame u for this, thats the way you people discriminate in UK."
[/quote]
I've tried to list the different 'groupings' of Pakistanis here in the UK. I opted for the word tribe as I couldn't find a more appropriate word to describe the groups that exist here. Yes these groups exist and they generally never inter-marry. Keep in mind that I'm trying to describe things as they are, I'm not endorsing any of the practices.
[quote]
"Rajpoot:-
What involvements they had with Mughals? Can u please clarify."
[/quote]
Next time I see the Rajpoot friend I'll ask him and update the site.
[quote]
"Women In Islam:-
Can u please rephrase it to “ The less religuous Paki. family is, the greater
restrictions on the women”.
[/quote]
No because I don't lie, sometimes the truth hurts, I'd rather have the truth.
[quote]
"Muslim Org. n sects:-
Muslims have only two sects i.e. Shiattes n Sunnis, rest are groups or cults.
They might be Muslims but teachings may not be Islamic. "
[/quote]
Again my site tells it like it is. We may wish that there were only two sects but
the fact is that there are plenty here in the UK. In addition I've sat in many Friday
sermons where the imaam has declared praying in the rival sects mosque as null
'dua kabool nahi hooti hay' sects exists, they shouldn't but they do and I've listed
the key sects. Also note that I've listed sects AND organisations.
My conclusion:
I was hoping for some constructive feedback but I have been disappointed. My site is and remains an accurate portrayal of the culture of Pakistanis in the UK. I am always happy to receive constructive feedback and make changes to the site in order to maintain it's
standard.
KKNIAZI and Daysee Behna:
[quote]
"we shud be returning back instead of TURNING backs on Pakistan! Just for a couple of more $$$$... now that's cheap"
"Its simple our honest people, like u, became li'l materialistic and fled the country for couple of more bucks, they didn't have the nerves to stand the social problems nor the flair to work as/for nation, eventually we left with all the CORRUPT people to run the country and this is why perversion is ubiquitous."
[/quote]
It's time to watch the football match Nigeria vs Denmark so I'm going to cut and paste a response from an internet friend of mine Asim Hayat from Norway. He was responding to the very accusation you two are levelling at those of us who have chosen to live outside Pakistan. On a personal note I was born outside of Pakistan and so was my father, we have lived in East Africa for two generations. In addition an increasing number of Pakistanis in
the UK were born here outside of Pakistan. We have not fled from anywhere.
Asim Hayat:
[QUOTE]
You accuse us as "people who have left home", what concern is it of ours to
see If Pakistan Survives or perishes. Well, pardon me for saying, but thats where you are out of your depth, Sir. Accusing us of being armchair visionaries
maybe partially right, but without vision nothing gets accomplished. Chaudry
Rehmat Ali had a vision, for without it you would still be a maulana sahib in
Hindu-majority India. Have you perhaps possibly considered some of us did
go back to Pakistan after studying abroad to equip ourselves with the latest
information on new technologies, vibrance and energies ready to put to good
use to alleviate the sickness within Pakistan. But it turned out we were not
required there, we were told not to produce foreign degrees as proofs of our
intellect, ability, qualifications, instaed we were asked where were we born? In
Punjab or Sind, What language did we speak at home? Urdu, punjabi, sindhi,
baluchi. What do our parents do? Who does my father know in higher up
places? Can he get the interviewers nephew, neice, sone, daughter,
brother-in-law suitable employment here or abroad via recommendations,
what recommendations i had.... not educational ofcourse.
Then you get on your high horse, and look down on us little people, who left
the country not of their free will, but as an economic necessity. Still its us the so
called sons who forgot their land, who send valuable foreign exchange
regularly back to give this sick land the injection addiction it has so become
used to in order to merely keep breathing.Its the pakistanis abroad who help
out in whatever capacity, albeit not on a grand scale, but nevertheless to
increase foreign reserves, without which, the country would have been sold to
the highest bidder decades ago, except now even the "World
Auctioneers"(IMF) hesitate to put a price on the net value of this country you
call it your own. As it stands it is perhaps more valuable in parts than the total
of all its parts. Its called hostile takeover, buy it and break it and make money
from its parts but i digress.
Maulana sahib, One does not want to leave ones country if the country has
what one needs to progress and survive. Take case of Norway where i am
currently living. It has a healthy infrastructure, primarily due to the 2 million barrels per day of oil, everybody is happy, nobody wants to go outside and
work, as the norwegians are fortunate enough to get much from life while at
home. Its altogether different for third world countries like ours who are living
on borrowed times from the IMF. Till such time as we hit mentionable natural
reserves in excess of 1 million barrels per day, we can not justify all staying
back and dying of lack of creative and satisfying jobs to do. I do not want to
be the frog at the bottom of a water well thinking this is the world, here. i
wanted to jump out of the stagnant water, to see far away places, and then
come back and tell the other resident frogs who thought the well was their
world about stories from distant lands, an encourgae them to change their own
destinies.
Perhaps, i am very charged on this issue, but this does rock my nerve to hear
sentiments like the ones maulana sahib mentioned time and again. we, who are
living abroad, are looked upon as traitors and that we dont give a damn, when
indeed its perhaps the people abroad who miss this wonderful land and are
deeply hurt to see it going as a lost cause and want to brain-wave and try to
come up with schemes to better the system and somehow make it come out of
the maelstrom it is currently heading into.U want proof of that. Just viosit any
customs office at the airports and see how much respect, and etiquette these
hard toiling sons of the land get on return to their sohni dharti. OK the
educated are treated a bit better, but u should check out the way the poor
pathans from the gulf countries are treated, and these poor pathans labour in
the hottest of climates 50 Degc in the shade watering the emirates to make it
greener for the golfers from the world to unite. These pathans too send in
foreign exchange and yet they are treated as if they are robbers....
P.S I still visit my country regularly, and am continuosly disappointed to see no
change in the mentality, perception, and persona of the people. Indeed not
much can be improved in a country which has an abysmal educational record,
along with various other records of intolerance and such as the ones maulana
sahib has mentioned.
I will not say i am a proud Pakistani, for we have little to be proud about,
except we are still here on the map as an independent country. thats our
biggest achievement so far, in fifty years. amazing fact indeed. But i have alot
of regard for my homeland, and sitting here i feel i can do lot more good for
my country, if even in terms of articles like the one under attack, or the mere
matter of economics, the hard earned green paperbacks flowing back in, than
to be in Pakistan and sitting on my backside, and writing articles. For then i
might not even had enough to provide two meals a day for my family let alone
the time to write about the plight of Christians, and even then certainly not on
this expensive medium.
Maslows hierarchy Model of motivation clearly shows that in order for humans
to achieve something in life they have to have at the bottom rung of needs,
basic requirements such as air, water, food. The next step is the emotional
fulfilment arena, whereby the need for love and recognition comes in, and its
on the third rung, the ability to be all that one can be comes into the picture.
Take away air water food, and the would be aspiring achiever dies. take away
the emotional contacts and the guy loses psychological perspective on life. So
if Pakistan doers not provide me with a job to provide food, an essential
factor, i am of no use to Pakistan, as i am going to be a mere casualty in the
millions of casulaties we have every year.
[QUOTE]
Farouq Taj.
[This message has been edited by farouq_taj.]
