contd from why we say shias r non muslims

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

ok…first of all…i don’t know if the post was closed cuz of the things being said or what…but i had to start a contd thread cuz some ppl here thought whatever i said had no base to it…so here i go

Paglu said "U have pretty limited knowledge to make such a huge assumptions upon khawateen…shia ppl might be hesitent due to the treatment they get inside there…Everyone know wahabis dont like ppl crying/mourning…Imams are loved because of prophet himself so how could they be priorty over Hazoor (pbuh)…i want to say no more…salam

k, so where did u get this from…kia sabb ke muu (face) per likhawa hai kai woh shia hai, sunni hai ya wahabi? how does one know what sect of islam u belong to unless u don’t say for ureself ke im shia or i’m sunni…c’mon guy!
and who said u can’t cry when u to the prophets grave…ppl do it all the time and the only reason the officers ask them to move is cuz there r other ppl waiting to get closer to the prophets grave…u can’t just hog the place…but no one can stop u from entering the area k. especially not the officers.

and then Insaniyat said :

Khwateeen sahiba you probably have a mis understanding, even though i have never been to medina but have heard that wahabis their don’t allow you to go to the grave of the Holy Prophet, they are pretty strict on the issue, plzz do a little research before you jump to conclusions, one shia family doesnt represting the entire sect

whatever i said to Paglu…no one can stop u from entering the prophets area…
and regarding the shia family who didnt’ go to the prohpets grave…its not just that one family…if u go to medinah…u can see for ureself…there is alwayz this crowd of ppl that stay outside the area where the prophets grave is…will not go in…and dont say that they are not shias cuz they are…we had to do our salams…and there r diff timings for men and women…so we were waiting with this crowd and we see some other women going in so my mom told these women in the crowd u can go in now, and they were like “no, we’re shias”
so im not talkin bout one family…i’m talkin bout what…the crowd had bout 50 ppl …
so is it still a misunderstanding…or limited knowledge

p.s) and i’m sorry bout how i started off the reply on the original topic…must learn to be kind

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sorry

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admin..i sort of posted 2 same topics...can u delete either one.
thanks

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I sat down to read your reply in the shias are not muslim thing and i felt "here goes another lecture" But this time you deserve it!

Stated by kawateen:
our family used to go to medina with this family and whenever we were** bout to enter the area with the prophets grave...they would stop dead in their tracks and always put up some excuse....in the end they tell us that they r shias** ...and that they will not do their salams to the prophet...but instead used to go to jannat baqi for their salams to the imams.....this is a fact...go to medinah, the prophets mosque....u will see all these shias sitting outside the area where the prohets grave is....will not go in.

Are you 100% sure??? I have been to madiena hundreds of times (lived in Jeddah for 4 years) and I would not dare leave the place without saying salaam and doing ziayrat!

Sorry to be rude but why is it only you that finds out these things about Shia that Shias dont know themselves(e.g that cruches in grave)All these thing I dont Lknow but I do know One thing NO SHIA WILL LEAVE MADIENA (WELL MOST)WITHOUT SAYING SALAAM AND DOING ZIARAT PERIOD!!

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[quote]
Originally posted by Shah Jahan:
**I sat down to read your reply in the shias are not muslim thing and i felt "here goes another lecture" But this time you deserve it!

Stated by kawateen:
our family used to go to medina with this family and whenever we were** bout to enter the area with the prophets grave...they would stop dead in their tracks and always put up some excuse....in the end they tell us that they r shias** ...and that they will not do their salams to the prophet...but instead used to go to jannat baqi for their salams to the imams.....this is a fact...go to medinah, the prophets mosque....u will see all these shias sitting outside the area where the prohets grave is....will not go in.

Are you 100% sure??? I have been to madiena hundreds of times (lived in Jeddah for 4 years) and I would not dare leave the place without saying salaam and doing ziayrat!

Sorry to be rude but why is it only you that finds out these things about Shia that Shias dont know themselves(e.g that cruches in grave)All these thing I dont Lknow but I do know One thing NO SHIA WILL LEAVE MADIENA (WELL MOST)WITHOUT SAYING SALAAM AND DOING ZIARAT PERIOD!!**
[/quote]

fine...then i guess all shias are not the same....maybe there is a diff between irani shias and paki shias etc.....
what...ure sayin that u know everythin there is to know botu shias? then how come u dont' know bout crutches and this thing bout SOME shias not goin in for salam to the nabi???
i mean the ppl practising these things are shias right? and the reason i know bout these things is cuz the majority of mulsims i know are shias or ismailis...is that my fault too?

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Sister khwateen
I don't want to get into any arguments, because i have never been to medina myself, but personally what think i have heard from my fellow friends that how much mistreatment they got from the fellow wahabis when they went to the grave of the beloved Prophet or perform shia practices, Holy Prophet never forced anybody to accept islam and these people force you to be a wahaibi, anyway there is nothing such in the shia' books of not going to the grave of the Prophet that i know of and thats it, people can do what they have want to do they responsible for their deeds, didn't you ever asked them, Where did they learn that being a shia you are not allowed to go to the grave of Prophet, i would love to find out from them but for some reason you are the only person i know that encounter these kinda peoples.

Going back to the title of this topic, can you please tell me how does this practice, which personally myself as shia' doesnt believe in, nor have i read in shia book on not going to the grave of the Prophet, I would love to go to the grave of the Prophet, Anyway how does it relates us to not being a muslim, is there any such thing in the shariat that if you don't go to the grave of Prophet you are not a muslim, would like to hear from you on that.

[This message has been edited by Insaniyat (edited December 16, 2000).]

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Khawateen jii, the best place to get knowledge about what Shias are and what they practice is to read their books (Al-Kafi, etc.) And than compare it to Quran and see what is dood and what is paani.

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Most shias here have not read any of their hadith books.

GoodLuck and take it easy.

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V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

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Going back to the title of this topic, can you please tell me how does this practice, which personally myself as shia' doesnt believe in, nor have i read in shia book on not going to the grave of the Prophet, I would love to go to the grave of the Prophet, Anyway how does it relates us to not being a muslim, is there any such thing in the shariat that if you don't go to the grave of Prophet you are not a muslim, would like to hear from you on that.

[This message has been edited by Insaniyat (edited December 16, 2000).]**
[/QUOTE]

k, SOME shia's (not u i guess) but SOME shias don't go for the ziarat to the nabi, that means that they have some sort of a prob with him or the fact that the prophet handed down the leadership to one of his friends when he was near death, rather than whoever u think it should have gone to (think its his son)....so now, how can u be a muslim if u have a prob with the prophet and his desicions cuz then god's gonna have a prob with u. lekin as u said....shias do not have a prob with the prophet...then i guess this topic is usless...haina?

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do you know there are a lot of illetrate shias ?.. they are the one who are causing all these problems..they just exagerrate everything which infact looks bad to everyone including shias..

even some extreme shia scholars were condemmned for being so controvercial. They were not considered shias by any prolif shia scholar..

kutta ban gaya houn tairay pyar mein
sunnah chahti ho to sunoh
BHOW BHOW!!

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here we go again

i thought we were done with such topics

My 3 "L" rule

Live humbly, Love much and Love often

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[quote]
Originally posted by khawateen:
**Going back to the title of this topic, can you please tell me how does this practice, which personally myself as shia' doesnt believe in, nor have i read in shia book on not going to the grave of the Prophet, I would love to go to the grave of the Prophet, Anyway how does it relates us to not being a muslim, is there any such thing in the shariat that if you don't go to the grave of Prophet you are not a muslim, would like to hear from you on that.

[This message has been edited by Insaniyat (edited December 16, 2000).]**
[/quote]

k, SOME shia's (not u i guess) but SOME shias don't go for the ziarat to the nabi, that means that they have some sort of a prob with him or the fact that the prophet handed down the leadership to one of his friends when he was near death, rather than whoever u think it should have gone to (think its his son)....so now, how can u be a muslim if u have a prob with the prophet and his desicions cuz then god's gonna have a prob with u. lekin as u said....shias do not have a prob with the prophet...then i guess this topic is usless...haina?**
[/QUOTE]

Sister now where did you learn't about the issue that shia's belief that Holy Prophet gave leadership to his friends whom we don't agree with, At the medan of Ghadeer-e-khum Holy Prophet gave the leardership to Hazrat Ali and its he who we follow as our first Imam, so where does the enimity of the Prophet came from. I don't get it now where did you learn this from, please do a little research before yor start making comments on a particular sect, Its you sunni's who didnt follow the hadith of Ghadeer-e-khum, Anyway i gotta go now, will talk to you in detail about it later.

[This message has been edited by Insaniyat (edited December 17, 2000).]

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Actually thats not true…atleast not all of it. The policemen or guards do not stop ppl from visiting the grave of the Prophet (SAWW). Its actually a closed room, with grills. Ppl offer their fateha and move in a procession after every namaaz. What the guards do stop ppl from doing is to offer fateha or dua by raising your hands while facing the grave of the Prophet (SAWW). They point out that if you have to offer dua face towards the Qibla, which is the other way and then offer dua.

You are however free to face the grave and stand for as long as you want, as long as you don’t raise your hands.

This is first-hand knowledge, as i have been there many times. Don’t believe all the stories.

BTW, the “shurtas” (policemen) are very strict and have those sticks which they use frequently on the hands of ppl who insist on raising their hands facing the grave. Beware!

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exactly unc…that’s what i’m tryin to tell em…patha nahin kiss nay marra hai inko under jana pe ya mistreat kiya hai inko

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Pristine, that is very informative, jazakallah!

is the prophet buried inside the kaaba? Pardon my ignorance!

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Kawateen I must say you are like a watcher(

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) over the people of madeina!

I have also sat outside and prayed Dua-e-kumail but I have always gone back in and so have all the people around me! When I went In I always prayed beside an Irani group coz they had duas and other interesting stuff I could read!

So that goes to proove that they first go in than come out and pray dua. i.e they dont only sit outside and not go in!!

Remember khawateen I am A shia, I have been to madeina and I have seen most shias around me go In side to do ziyarat of rasool!

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Prophet buried in Kaaba…? Cooldude !!!

Ok, let me start from the beginning

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Kaaba is in Masjid-al-Haraam, i.e. in Makkah Mukkaramah. Kaaba is where we face while prying - Qiblah.

Now the Prophet (SAWW) has his grave in Medina-al-Munawarra, which is like 6 hours drive from Makkah.

The Prophet (SAWW) had built a mosque in Madina which is now known as Masjid-e-Nabwi. It was a small mosque and next to the mosque was the room (hujra) of the Prophet (SAWW). The Prophet (SAWW) after his “wisaal” (death) was burried in his room, right under where his bed used to be.

Subsequently, the Masjid-e-Nabwi expanded and today the Prophet’s room is within the masjid. If you look at the picture of Masjid-Nabwi, the green dome is exactly on top of the grave. This room is sealed and there is a grill on two sides. There are two other graves in this room besides that of the Prophet (SAWW). These are of Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA) and Hazrat Omar (RA)

After every fard namaaz, people pass the room in procession offering their fateha and dua to the Prophet (SAWW).

The area which was originally between the room and the masjid has different colored carpet i.e. it is green. The remaining is, I think, red. The green part signifies the area which the Prophet (SAWW) called “This is a part of janaat”. Almost everyone offers two rakaat namaaz on that part. This small area is called “Riyaz-al-Jannah”

Masjid al Haram - Makkah al Mukaramah
Coming to Masjid-ul-Haraam, it has several important places around it. There is “Maqam-e-Ibrahim”, where Hazrat Ibrahim (RA) used to stand while building Khana-e-Kaaba. The footprint of Hazrat Ibrahim (RA) is still preserved in that place.

There is Muqam-e-Multyazim, the door of Kaaba, where Allah Tallah accepts all duas.

There is Hajr-e-Aswad implanted on one corner of the Kaaba. This stone is from the janaat. During Tawaf muslims try to kiss this stone.

Then there is a small area next to Kaaba where it is said that a number of Prophets (RA) are buried. This is the small semi-circle on one side of the Kaaba and during tawaf the people have to include this semi-circle in the tawaf… so now a small wall is made as boundry which is closed from one end. In any picture of Kaaba you can see ppl offering nawafil in that area. No graves are visible, so you can offer namaz anywhere in that semi-circle.

Within the compound there are stairs going down. Below is the well of zam zam. Right now there are lotsa coolers everywhere in the masjid from where you can drink zam zam. But some ppl do go down to see it. Its basically lots of pumps and machines there and lots of coolers.

Makkah is always very hot. So during the recent expansion, they put a special kind of marble on the floor of Masjid al Haram, so that the floor of Masjid always remains cool. Plus the masjis is fully airconditioned. Even so, that the are which seems open, that is Kaaba and its surrounding area, is also airconditioned. The way they have done it is by putting very powerful aircon fans on the masjid structure facing the kaaba so they send very powerful bursts of cold air in the compond which keeps the Masjid compound cool.

There are soooo many fascinating things about these two mosques. I will, Insha Allah, put them down some other time.

How much someone may dislike the Kings of Saudi Arabia or the wahabis, you must admit that they have really taken very good care of the Harmain al Sharifain (the two mosques). These two mosques are fabulous!

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[This message has been edited by Pristine (edited December 17, 2000).]

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couldn’t have put it any better than that!

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shah jahan: truce

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Truce

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Hey khawateeen
can you tell me where you learn't about this resaons for enimity towards prophet.

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shia friends of mine…they say so and to change the topic…i just pretend to believe whatever they say…no questions asked…
by the way…i have declared truce

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[al-An`am 6:159] As for those who divide their religion and break up into "Sects", you have no concern in them in the least: their affair is with Allah: He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.

[ar-Rum 30:32] Those who split up their Religion, and become (mere) "Sects",- each party rejoicing in that which is with itself!

[al-Hajj 22:78] And strive in His cause as you ought to strive, (with sincerity and under discipline). He has chosen you, and has imposed no difficulties on you in religion; it is the religion of your father Abraham. It is He Who has named you "Muslims", both before and in this (Quran); that the Messenger may be a witness for you, and you be witnesses for mankind! So establish regular Prayer, give regular Charity, and hold fast to Allah! He is your Maula, what an Excellent Maula and what an Excellent Helper!