Alright, so this topic has been covered in numerous threads before this, however I dont think I’ve seen any debate dedicated specifically to this topic. And even if there has been, I’d like to be part of one so please dont merge with any debates I wasnt present in.
Muslims, Pakistani Muslims (i speak of Pakistanis only because they’re the only ones I’ve encountered that werent arabic) tend to see arabic culture that wasnt forbidden by the Prophet as practices we should follow. Easy examples would be arabic dress, the typical religiously inclined pakistani tends to wear one of those checked headgears, and if he is very religious he might even consider wearing a chugha. More debatable examples would be insisting that Duff (tambourine) is an allowable musical instrument because the Prophet allowed it (only some Muslims believe its allowable), and considering polygamy (and to a lesser extent) slavery as worthy and “religious” acts because they were practiced in the Prophets time.
Polygamy, since it has been discussed so often in recent days, is not encouraged or glorified in my knowledge, it was a cultural practice in arabia that wasnt disallowed.
this does not mean IMO that by not practicing polygamy in Pakistan (most marriages are monogamous) we have abandoned an article of our religion, we are following our culture while remaining within the bounds of Islam.
first of all I’d like to know whether or not you agree with this view on the religion. if you disagree point out where Im wrong. Secondly tell me if this is a valid opinion, where does Sunnah begin? Where do acts done by the Prophet go from being permissible to sawab-worthy?
Re: considering arabic culture to be part of Islam
Its sawab-worthy if the Quran praises the act.
Otherwise, I dont think you'll get brownie points for riding a camel because the Prophet rode one. But then again, I'm not God. Ask God when you get up there.
Re: considering arabic culture to be part of Islam
i dont know, are you completely discounting sunnah then if you're saying just the Quran? I dont think many sunnis (or shias) would agree with you, although it is a fairly well established school of thought.. erm i forgot what its called
Re: considering arabic culture to be part of Islam
Well we can go down a sunnah vs. Quran argument. But then things always come back down to that. :)
There are various types of hadith. There are descriptive ones that paint us a picture of what the Prophet must have been like. Aisha remembers his personal particular habits, and she recorded them through one of her students in hadith form. Many of them at least. So, does that mean you have to cut your toes like the Prophet? No.
This is where sheer common sense comes in. Islam is pretty much a moral code, essentially. Its how you socially interact with others, and how to build a society. And how to be a complete person with a fulfilling life.
So if the Sunnah points you to do something that you think you can gain moral benefit from or personal benefit, then do it.
Are u going to get that from a hadith that says the Prophet used to camel-race? Well not if you go try to be like him and go camel-race. That's narrow-minded. But look at the big picture. The prophet was into sports. There is some inherent quality in sportsmanship that might hold some good.
And lo and behold all the benefits that come along with playing for the UM Hurricanes or the UF Gators. :D
Re: considering arabic culture to be part of Islam
so in saying that we should be into sports because the Prophet liked camel racing etc, you're not saying that the Quran has to praise the act in order for it to be more than just permissible. fine that perspective I agree with, guardedly. because if you allow for this rationale, it gets hairier for issues that dont have such obvious translations to modern life cultural elements (miswak -> toothbrush, camel racing -> american football). what broader picture for example do you see in Polygamy?
Re: considering arabic culture to be part of Islam
No, I don't think Polygamy is some outdated Saudi practice. Uncontrolled polygamy, yes. 4 wives? No.
Basic argument is this:
Perplexed mullah sees hot babe. imagine the wind blew her veil a little and he got a peak
Perplexed mullah wants to bang hot babe. But he's got a wife back home. A bit used and worn, but still chugging along.
Choices:
Bang hot babe. Tell no one about it. If anyone asks, say "I don't know whatchya talkin' about".
Pro - Perplexed mullah gets banged.
Con - Perplexed mullah goes to hell.
Bang hot babe after marrying her into polygamous union.
Pro - Perplexed mullah gets banged. Perplexed mullah does not go to hell by DEFAULT.
Con - Perplexed mullah has to keep both wives happy, and treat both equally. First wife has sagging boobs and worn out flower. So this is hard. Perplexed mullah might go to hell and get really bad punishment for acting on lust and being unjust to first wife.
Perplexed mullah keeps dick in his own pants. Stays monogamous.
Pro - Perplexed mullah still gets banged by his old Corolla.
Con - Perplexed mullah does not go to hell. Well at least not on account of women.
Re: considering arabic culture to be part of Islam
haha.. thanks for digging it up. definitely the least religion inducing thing i've read on the religion forum.
i dunno, i guess my brains fried right about now. i dont particularly disagree with you much anyway so I guess i'll pick it up tomorrow by which time hopefully I'll have a couple of indignant posters baying for my blood.
Re: considering arabic culture to be part of Islam
I think the issue is fairly clear. There are things which are a part of Islam because the Prohpet(saws) commanded us to follow them. There are other things which people do even though we haven't been commanded. Then, it depends on the intention of the doer, if he is imitating the Prophet(saws) out of love, then it is considered "sawab-worthy".
It would be better if you could outline something more specific. I doubt people consider the chequered headgear to be a part of Islam. The ruling on daff though isn't cultural. What else? I cant think of many examples where arabic culture would be called a part of Islam..
Re: considering arabic culture to be part of Islam
Ravage, where did you see/hear about the table cloth on the head? That grab is strictly for certain Arabs, and they do no appreciate a non-Arab in that head gear. I have never seen any Pakistani in ring and table cloth.
Re: considering arabic culture to be part of Islam
Ring and table cloth save them from heat apparently. By the looks of it a magician might find better uses of these two articles of clothing cum dining ... you know like producing a bird out of thin air.
Everything arabic and specifically saudi arabic is generally held in high regard in the Pakistani society. So generally speaking, I believe we wont be too far off the target if we were to say that arabia has had an undue influence on our understanding of this religion.
Re: considering arabic culture to be part of Islam
Well ravage!
Atleast among Sunnis,this issue is quite clear that Arabic Customs are not part of Islam
Now what part of Prophet saw actions/deeds/sayings reflect the customs prevelant at that time what does not is a matter of debate.
Ofcourse,making such a distinction is not easy by any means,anyone who has some hitch with a Sunnah might argue that this actually was just a custom.
What ulema have done is that,they consider a particular act/saying not being Part of Islam if
1- Prophet saw himself said so
2-If large majority of learned ulema come to the conclusion that it was a custom
I cannot make it any clearer than this and if u are looking for a list of things that r part of arabic custom and not Islam then u won’t find any.
Regarding slavery,i have not seen even the most literalists to consider it worthy…i donno from where u brought it.
Re: considering arabic culture to be part of Islam
Culture vs. religion. Sheesh, some things should be common sense. But I guess if people think wearing a suit and tie is haraam because the Prophet didn't wear it, and if they think wearing the Arab cultural dress is the only way to go, then what can you do? Rip the tablecloth off their head?
Some people just fear to think outside the box. Just raise your children so that they don't do that. Natural selection will wipe out idiots anyway.
Re: considering arabic culture to be part of Islam
first off, the chequered head dress I've seen being used as evidence of religiousity in Pakistan, specifically in Karachi more specifically in sadat colony more specifically in the Khilafat Chowk group, a group of people that vye with the Muawiya Chowk group for control of the local masjid/imam bara resources. the leader of the Khilafat Chowk wears a dishdasha/chugha and carries the ring and tablecloth on his head.
additionally I've seen this headdress being carried by tablighis on their gushts (punjabi/pathan). the only thing common between the two is their desire to project a religious image.
Iconoclast, im not interested in arguing along sectarian lines. suffice to say that this is a problem that I have noticed in shia and sunni people. I simply cannot understand for example, why the arabic version of the tambourine (daff) is considered more religiously acceptable than the indian and western versions of it. just because they create percussions at a different frequency?
what specifically about the daff makes it more religiously acceptable, ammarr?
Re: considering arabic culture to be part of Islam
:halo:@ table cloths.
u see amriki soldiers / westerners wearing the chequered scarf or those funny hats with neck covering in arab countries. its more to protect you from the blistering heat. similiar reason for the jilabab/chuga and why most farmers wear a turban in pak. Its more a cultural than religious symbol.