how do you think of the two words separately (define them)? then, how do you take them in a correlation?
are there gradations for definition of these words, for the sake of self justification by which people defend their real educatedness?
share if you like.
best,
Dushwari
Re: CONSERVATIVE = UNEDUCATED?
So:hmmm: Bartania ki “Conservative party” uneducated hy:aq:
Re: CONSERVATIVE = UNEDUCATED?
:) goodnews. why bother worrying about britain?
how about arabs and us Pakistanis?
Re: CONSERVATIVE = UNEDUCATED?
Kion ky Conservative sy mujhy tu Conservative party hi yad ati hy woh educated hain tu sab conservatives educated hain:D
Re: CONSERVATIVE = UNEDUCATED?
this can be debated both ways?
the context matters in case of conservative party regarding the politics that surrounds its existence?
no?
Re: CONSERVATIVE = UNEDUCATED?
illusions and propaganda. right. sadly. but only for now.
Re: CONSERVATIVE = UNEDUCATED?
achy bhaly thread ko joke factory bana dia
Re: CONSERVATIVE = UNEDUCATED?
knockout_artist,
what were you going to say? any thoughts on the article?
Re: CONSERVATIVE = UNEDUCATED?
you are making me work. :(
now let me think. hmmmm
I would say its not easy to give opinion ,on a matter ,to a person who's background you don't know. Its not easy to relate things.
But Let me still try.
Conservative has different meaning to different ppl.
In pakistan educated people are conservative. We use to say in pakistan if you want to have fun "S" either you have to be from richest or the poorest class.
Those both classes don't hold much values. Or its better put this way , breaking rules in those 2 classes bring less severe consequences.
They both believe in "nazreea-y-zaroorat".
Now the western/indian version about islam is, only uneducated muslims a conservative. Which I totally disagree.
In US richest class, I believe, is conservative.
If conservative meaning is holding values, then thats how we supposed to be.
More educated muslim are more likely to hold their values. So I believe education has a reverse effect on muslims.
Re: CONSERVATIVE = UNEDUCATED?
knock out artist,
thanks for sharing your thoughts on the topic.
see, the religion/ educated ness/ conservatism trio has to be considered independently before it is meshed up.
for muslims or non muslims, education, ought to be a mind opening thing, besides having the prospect of better standard of living, no?
Re: CONSERVATIVE = UNEDUCATED?
Well Then I would say, open minded muslim tend to stick with basic principle firmly.
They do have flexibility in their behavior but, as I said, they have more solid ground.
Re: CONSERVATIVE = UNEDUCATED?
knock out artist,
for Muslims or non Muslims, education, ought to be a mind opening thing, besides having the prospect of better standard of living, no?
Mind opening means what ? Open mind to what ? Education can open your mind both ways. Let me give you an example:
After getting worldly education a person can think that Islam is not for today it has so much restrictions and controls built in.
The other person can think wow I did not know Islam can help us solve all these moral and cultural issues , it is such an advanced religion looks like it was revealed for today. Mashallah.
What do you say ?
Re: CONSERVATIVE = UNEDUCATED?
fobee,
sorry to say, the world is so wrong when it states that Islam is not for today.
that needs to be cleared as a concept.
yes, all moral and social ills can be taken care of by following the faith and incorporating it in the world living.
mind opening is : to you, your religion and to me mine.
open to change, that is life sustaining and productive, clean and not a deceit, as does the seemingly tempting ambiance, vibrance and exhuberance of evil things.
best,
Dushwari
Re: CONSERVATIVE = UNEDUCATED?
fobee, mind opening is : to you, your religion and to me mine. best, Dushwari
Lakum deenakum wa lee ya deen. to you, your religion and to me mine
was said by Islam 1400 years ago. This translates to tolerance not mind opening.
Mind opening is bigger concept it means you are open to listen to others , open to listen to opposing ideas , open to accept the right thing , open to tolerance, open to help others even if they do not agree with your point of view.
Re: CONSERVATIVE = UNEDUCATED?
no, not tolerence.
an acceptance that there are other truths than your own or someone else's.
as long as no one is committing murder, destruction, violating someone's property and life, or is conniving, immoral, torturous, deceitful, and dishonest, if someone wants to live a certain way or think a certain way, it is accepted.
tolerence is not what Islam is about. instead, it is about PEACE.
open to being open is what i am referring to.
Re: CONSERVATIVE = UNEDUCATED?
no, not tolerence.
an acceptance that there are other truths than your own or someone else's.
as long as no one is committing murder, destruction, violating someone's property and life, or is conniciving, immoral, torturous, deceitful, and dishonest, if someone wants to live a certain way or think a certain way, it is accepted. tolerence is not what Islam is about. instead, it is about PEACE.
open to being open is what i am referring to.
Mashallah. I agree whole heartedly.
Re: CONSERVATIVE = UNEDUCATED?
Conservative has many prolific definitions ... If it was said insular then that would be uneducated or a result of being uneducated ...
But sometimes one assumes conservativeness through rigour and conviction which can only come from extensive research, analysis and conclusions.
Peace
P.S. conservative comes from the verb to conserve - 'to keep the same' sometimes progressiveness seems like the educated stance, but being progressive for the sake of progressiveness is just as ignorant as being still for no apparent reason.
Re: CONSERVATIVE = UNEDUCATED?
brother psyah,
conservative i understand. in fact, to a great extent i am very conservative.
so, as far as preserving, for instance, a long built relation is concerned,
and taken to be dear but the other person winks it.
you cant help conserving then, can you?
in may ways, when you see people who are innovative in wrong ways,
about being conservative to the point of being absolutely dubious and hypocritic.
the issue is, that people make it very subjective and say and believe that they are objecytive, but they are not.
Re: CONSERVATIVE = UNEDUCATED?
Salaam,
Dushwari intersting topic !
psyah, mashallah very instructive post as usual.
Education can't be reached without an open mind to learn, and understand knowledge from various fields, and various opinions.
so educated people tend to be more openminded that uneducated ones.
But there is no clear link between closemindness and conservatism.
One could be "conservative" by default: no other choice but to follow old rules and ways, because nothing else was learnt...
However I don't believe conservatism is passive, rather it's an active mindorientation, even political views.
Well Then I would say, open minded muslim tend to stick with basic principle firmly. They do have flexibility in their behavior but, as I said, they have more solid ground.
"solid ground" is maybe the key to being either conservative or liberal when one is educated.
very educated people are usually open minded, and either very conservative due to a solid conservative ground, or very liberal due to a liberal ground. Ground<=>family values and upbringing.