Congress and Pakistan

[calypsodc]

Re: Congress and Pakistan

@ninja_hattori

I was talking about hindu-muslim communal rights…

because at least 50% of reported riots are hindu-muslim communal riots…

Really ? I had no idea. I am not sure if the link U provided says that. Can U point me in the right direction here ?

[ninja_hattori]

Re: Congress and Pakistan

@muqawwee123

seriously? is that so?

you can here news of hindu-muslim riots during every hindu-muslim festivals…

which are celebrated around the year

[muqawwee123]

Re: Congress and Pakistan

@calypsodc

Congress opposed separate electorate and 1/3 representation because:

1. Congress presented itself as a national party which considered everybody equal irrespective of social background or religion and
   could not support identification of voters with a particular community.

2. Also consider a scenario where a province had say between 0-25% muslim minority population. How do U give 1/3 representation in
   such cases ? What about muslim dominated provinces? Did muslims get 1/3 representation here also ? How much representation
   would the other minorities get in muslim dominated provinces. I think these issues were not properly tackled. If U take the whole
   British India into consideration, as the majority community in most provinces, Hindus stood to lose from weighted minority
   representation. Congress decided this was not a balanced and fair situation and opposed 1/3 representation.

IMO, ML and Jinnah should have pushed for proportional representation depending on the demographics of a province.

True, but why Congress had agreed to such terms in 1916 Lucknow Pact? What had happened in between Lucknow pact and Nehru Report (1929) leading U-Turn by Congress? Did Congress turned nationalist in between or there were any major demographic changes that put majority Hindus at disadvantage as per the term agreed in Lucknow pact?

[muqawwee123]

Re: Congress and Pakistan

@ninja_hattori

you can here news of hindu-muslim riots during every hindu-muslim festivals…

which are celebrated around the year

Strange.. Pakistani media is not that much obsessed with riots in India

[ninja_hattori]

Re: Congress and Pakistan

@calypsodc

Really ? I had no idea. I am not sure if the link U provided says that. Can U point me in the right direction here ?

May be my guess is wrong but still thousand of hindu muslim riot take place every year…hope you accept it now:D

only maharashtra had 1000 communal riots in ten years span…

[ninja_hattori]

Re: Congress and Pakistan

@muqawwee123

Strange.. Pakistani media is not that much obsessed with riots in India

Even indian media do not report riots…but its good for communal harmony in other areas…

[muqawwee123]

Re: Congress and Pakistan

@ninja_hattori

Even indian media do not report riots…but its good for communal harmony in other areas…

The only riots that got limelight in Pakistan media in recent years were Gujrat riots and before that riots after destruction of Babri Masjid in 1990s.

[ninja_hattori]

Re: Congress and Pakistan

@muqawwee123

The only riots that got limelight in Pakistan media in recent years were Gujrat riots and before that riots after destruction of Babri Masjid in 1990s.

No as i said every year at least a thousand major and minor hindu-muslim riots takes place

only In ten years time in maharashtra we had 1000 hindu-muslim riots…

[muqawwee123]

Re: Congress and Pakistan

@ninja_hattori

No as i said every year at least a thousand major and minor hindu-muslim riots takes place

only In ten years time in maharashtra we had 1000 hindu-muslim riots…

What do you think are the reasons for these persistent riots? Have the situations not changed after 1947 partition? Do Muslims of India still feel insecure on the issues which were exploited by Muslim league for demanding separate state?

[ninja_hattori]

Re: Congress and Pakistan

@muqawwee123

What do you think are the reasons for these persistent riots? Have the situations not changed after 1947 partition? Do Muslims of India still feel insecure on the issues which were exploited by Muslim league for demanding separate state?

Intolerance by both the communities…

Some time some groups give communal angle to personal rivalries…

Every minority feel insecure

[calypsodc]

Re: Congress and Pakistan

@muqawwee123

True, but why Congress had agreed to such terms in 1916 Lucknow Pact? What had happened in between Lucknow pact and Nehru Report (1929) leading U-Turn by Congress? Did Congress turned nationalist in between or there were any major demographic changes that put majority Hindus at disadvantage as per the term agreed in Lucknow pact?

Policies change. Remember Jinnah was himself opposed to separate electorates initially. That 1915 saw the return of Gandhi. His support for the Khilafat movement against Turkey was widely criticized. In protest a number of leaders quit the congress and the party split. This is the only thing I can think of. May be there is another reason.
As for the demographic changes that put majority Hindus at a disadvantages, there weren’t any. But consider this, just the whole of South India had a Hindu population of around 80% with muslims comprising only 12-15% of the population only.ML was not a well known party here at all, they had no say . So 1/3 representation for muslims here was not a popular move and wholly rejected by the people themselves . The same was the situation in many parts of India. This was the reason, I earlier said that ML only spoke for the muslim dominated border areas of British India and UP where muslims were a sizable minority and it cannot be not considered as a mouthpiece for all the muslims of the subcontinent.

[muqawwee123]

Re: Congress and Pakistan

@calypsodc

Policies change. Remember Jinnah was himself opposed to separate electorates initially. That 1915 saw the return of Gandhi. His support for the Khilafat movement against Turkey was widely criticized. In protest a number of leaders quit the congress and the party split. This is the only thing I can think of. May be there is another reason.

If Mr Jinah was against separate electoral in beginning, he agreed to that and made Congress agreed upon this through a formal document (Lucknow Pact). Opposition to Gandhi’s support for Khilafat Movement again might have created concerns in people like Johar Brothers and other Muslim leaders for their issues to be represented by Congress.

As for the demographic changes that put majority Hindus at a disadvantages, there weren’t any. But consider this, just the whole of South India had a Hindu population of around 80% with muslims comprising only 12-15% of the population only.ML was not a well known party here at all, they had no say . So 1/3 representation for muslims here was not a popular move and wholly rejected by the people themselves . The same was the situation in many parts of India. This was the reason, I earlier said that ML only spoke for the muslim dominated border areas of British India and UP where muslims were a sizable minority and it cannot be not considered as a mouthpiece for all the muslims of the subcontinent.

Were these facts not known to Congress when it agreed upon such terms in Lucknow Pact? It seems that Congress had some compulsion to agree those terms at that time.

[muqawwee123]

Re: Congress and Pakistan

@ninja_hattori

Intolerance by both the communities…

Some time some groups give communal angle to personal rivalries…

Every minority feel insecure

That is the general psyche of minorities every where in the world. nothing new in India’s case IMO.

[calypsodc]

Re: Congress and Pakistan

@muqawwee123

If Mr Jinah was against separate electoral in beginning, he agreed to that and made Congress agreed upon this through a formal document (Lucknow Pact). Opposition to Gandhi’s support for Khilafat Movement again might have created concerns in people like Johar Brothers and other Muslim leaders for their issues to be represented by Congress.

Were these facts not known to Congress when it agreed upon such terms in Lucknow Pact? It seems that Congress had some compulsion to agree those terms at that time.

Reasons for the Lucknow Pact itself was :

1. Lord Chelmsford’s invitation for suggestions from the Indian politicians for post World War I reforms further helped in the
   development of the situation.
2. to pressure the British government to adopt a more liberal approach to India and give Indians more authority to run their country.

The above 2 factors were the main compulsions for the pact

The pact was negotiated between ML and Bal Gangadhar Tilak from Cong. Jinnah was the mediator. This was also when Sarojini Naidu gave Jinnah,the title of “the Ambassador of Hindu-Muslim Unity”.
This pact collapsed due to Kilafat movement and Chauri Chara incident of 1920s.
Once this happened every thing changed and ofcourse majority Hindu provinces were also not thrilled by the disproportionate representation of minorities and it was perceived as an illogical demand.

[muqawwee123]

Re: Congress and Pakistan

@calypsodc

Reasons for the Lucknow Pact itself was :

1. Lord Chelmsford’s invitation for suggestions from the Indian politicians for post World War I reforms further helped in the
   development of the situation.
2. to pressure the British government to adopt a more liberal approach to India and give Indians more authority to run their country.

The above 2 factors were the main compulsions for the pact

The pact was negotiated between ML and Bal Gangadhar Tilak from Cong. Jinnah was the mediator. This was also when Sarojini Naidu gave Jinnah,the title of “the Ambassador of Hindu-Muslim Unity”.
This pact collapsed due to Kilafat movement and Chauri Chara incident of 1920s.
Once this happened every thing changed and ofcourse majority Hindu provinces were also not thrilled by the disproportionate representation of minorities and it was perceived as an illogical demand.

You mean to say Congress agreed upon Lucknow Pact without the consent of majority Hindu provinces and that under compulsion from British Government.