When a Muslim converts to some other religion, why does Islam order for them to be killed? I just want to understand the reason behind this. Please explain in simple terms though.
Since the molvis study in their madrassas, a course designed more than 250 years go, and fail miserably at addressing the intellectual challenges faced by their religion, they decided to keep people inside their religion by force, and by life threats.
The roots of this punishment for apostacy can not be traced from within the Koran, infact the Koran has verses that outrightly disallow any such punishment for apostates.
"How shall Allah guide a people who have disbelieved after believing and who had borne witness that the messenger was true and to whom clear proofs had come? And Allah guides not the wrong doing people. As for such - their reward is that on them shall be the curse of Allah and of angels and of men, all together. They shall abide thereunder. Their punishment shall not be lightened nor shall they be reprieved. Except those who repent thereafter and amend. And surely Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful."(Koran, 2:86-89)
The Koran opposes any physical punishment for apostacy. Molana Modudi was the first scholar in the history of Islam who associated this act of barbarianism to the Koran. Before him a few scholars maintained the same belief about apostates, but none had the courage to associate it to the Koran.
I need some more replies.
Hamsa, I’m away from home right now, at my farmhouse. When I get back i’ll try and send you a couple of books (in urdu) relating the topic. I was hoping to see more replies to the topic too, since the majority of orthodox muslims in Pakistan believes in death as the punishment for an apostate, and come up with interesting justifications for it.
Read this for details:
when u ask a question, it is better to put a source with your question, i.e. tell us exactly what verse (from the Quran) or what Hadith u have read that makes u think Islam has such a rule....
then i will gladly answer ur question....
Hmm I don't remember the source but I have heard from a LOT of people that if a Muslim converts to another religion, the punishment is death. In fact, almost all the Muslims I've interacted with until now have said the same thing.
here are some samples armughal.. there may be more where these came from..
Bukhari Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17:](http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/083.sbt.html#009.083.037)
Narrated 'Abdullah:
Allah’s Apostle said, “The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse **and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims.” **
**Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:**
Narrated 'Ikrima:
Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, “If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s Apostle forbade it, saying, ‘Do not punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire).’ I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah’s Apostle, **‘Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.’” **
Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 64:
Narrated 'Ali:
Whenever I tell you a narration from Allah’s Apostle, by Allah, I would rather fall down from the sky than ascribe a false statement to him, but if I tell you something between me and you (not a Hadith) then it was indeed a trick (i.e., I may say things just to cheat my enemy). No doubt I heard Allah’s Apostle saying, “During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. **So, where-ever you find them, kill them, for who-ever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection.” **
Thanks Pakistani Abroad :)
Now who wants to justify that?
WOhoo.. i didnt knwo that thr was a punishment for this act..
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Paaga| |nsaan: *
Hamsa, I'm away from home right now, at my farmhouse. When I get back i'll try and send you a couple of books (in urdu) relating the topic.
[/QUOTE]
yeah i want that too
waiting :)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Hum Sa Ho To Samne Aaye: *
Thanks Pakistani Abroad :)
Now who wants to justify that?
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I am not sure I understand your challenge.
DEATH FOR APOSTASY is a valid shariah law of the sunni & wahabi fiqh of Islam. For a Sunni to sugest otherwise is to DELUDE one-self.
To suggest REFORMING sunni Islam and its laws is blasphemy - also punishable by DEATH.
There can NEVER be any JUSTIFICATION for laws like the above or a religion that enforces such laws.
What will you do when a billion plus makes the same point.
Uh hafeez, I would like someone to explain the logic behind this. Simple.
^ I'd love to see a logic behind this too, but I'd also want the logic to be in accordance with the following revelation:
"How shall Allah guide a people who have disbelieved after believing and who had borne witness that the messenger was true and to whom clear proofs had come? And Allah guides not the wrong doing people. As for such - their reward is that on them shall be the curse of Allah and of angels and of men, all together. They shall abide thereunder. Their punishment shall not be lightened nor shall they be reprieved. Except those who repent thereafter and amend. And surely Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful."(Koran, 2:86-89)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Hum Sa Ho To Samne Aaye: *
Uh hafeez, I would like someone to explain the logic behind this. Simple.
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Is Sunni Islam based upon logic?
Surely - you 're kidding.
The logic is macabre or "FORCE and INTIMIDATION is used to keep a believer within the fold."
The same logic is applied against believers that Questions / Criticizes teachings of the prophet and/or Islam.
If you re-call even President Musharraf was deemed an Apostate or having left Islam for his support & alliance with kafirs (USA).
Sunni Islam is based upon the seerah /hadis and they allow an apostate to repent and re-embrace the deen of allah, otherwise he/she can be executed "for his own good".
After the passing of An-Hazur large numbers of Meccans left Islam and 'Abu Bakr (ra) sent an army and they were forced to RE-SUBMIT to Islam by the sword. There are other authenticated hadis besides those quoted by PakistaniAbroad that are based as meanings to verses [2:86-89].
You are talking about death here. A death of an apostate, nevertheless a death. Not a very small matter that you can just pluck Ayahs and Suras from the Quran and post them here while someone very knowledgeable will anwers you questions in the proper context. Wrong!
There is no one who can know what is in the other's heart. Under what circumstances was the Apostasy done? Who were witnesses? Why was it done? Is it a rumor?
There is no one who can answer your question on GS. I suggest you contact a scholar or a ullema to better answer your query as to what goes behind those Ayahs and Ahadith.
Lajawab,
Yes - we are talking about death or to be precise - MURDER, religiously approved & sanctioned for:
APOSTASY
BLASPHEMY
QATIL
EYE FOR AN EYE
HOMSEXUALITY
ADULTERY
etc...
Why don't you contact your scholar and update for us. In the meanwhile I standby with what I have written.
Thank you.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by hafeez123: *
Lajawab,
Yes - we are talking about death or to be precise - MURDER, religiously approved & sanctioned for:
APOSTASY
BLASPHEMY
QATIL
EYE FOR AN EYE
HOMSEXUALITY
ADULTERY
etc...
Why don't you contact your scholar and update for us. In the meanwhile I standby with what I have written.
Thank you.
[/QUOTE]
There are laws of punishments regarding these sins. They will not be changed because you think they should. Not one bit. Islam is not a religion to be changed because you think the punishments are harsh or cruel. That's why they are call punishments so that people deter from them.
But only Allah Mian has the right to punish....
dont u remember the story of Jesus and the prostitute... ?? where a few people wanted to stone her to death... and Jesus asked them to first look at themselves.. and if he hadnt ever committed a sun.. he had the right to throw a stone.... not one person picked up..
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sadzzz: *
But only Allah Mian has the right to punish....
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so all these courts set up all around r the world r meant to do what????
provide entertainment????
sadzzz if people didn't get punished for their crimes the world will be a very messed up place to live.
For a religion that advertises itself as 'peaceful' and 'tolerant' and "to you your religion to me mine" and "there is no compulsion in religion" how do you explain killing people who change their mind after believing?
Some wanted proof that Islam does indeed command that and the proof has been provided; although it's from non-Qur'anic sources but the majority of Muslims base their religion on this literature so the question stands.