Conflicting Heroes

mAd_ScIeNtIsT · February 3, 2012, 9:07pm

Re: Conflicting Heroes

He built all except a robust government that could survive his death, and so he is forgotten. If India had a few more rulers like him instead of getting cursed with the Moghul return then things would have been so much brighter....

muqawwee123 · February 4, 2012, 5:24am

Re: Conflicting Heroes

Sher Shah Suri's work for India is the proof that intruders (attackers from the north) have little ownership of their conquered areas. MUghals also made development in India, but Sher Shah's work during a short span of time with a masses oriented approach proves that local rulers were not evil as portrayed in most history books.

It was Ashoka who built the road now known as GT Road, which was renovated and reconstructed by Sher Shah.

the_kaur · February 4, 2012, 12:25pm

Re: Conflicting Heroes

Third battle of panipat not only destroyed marathas but also decimated power of Ahmed Shah Abdali hence he didn’t invade any other city except Delhi. Agra, gwalior, ajmer all were saved because of this, Maratha empire disintegrated only after 1857, Majority of leaders of revolt were marathas, nana saheb, tatya tope, laxmi bai etc.

Ghaznavi’s raid was just to loot India, it is well known he has constructed beautiful capital named Ghazni through this, and even Brits attacked India because of resources

IT was to establish himself as leader of Islam and his own greed in shadow of spreading Islam

It was well known about its hidden treasures even. The siva linga idol had diamonds inside it when it was broken and yes somnath did take his revenge!!

how different Sikhs look different from Pashtoons?? and what do they say, I wish to know. William Dalrymple wrote about mughals in much better and researched way, question is what do you think about his work??

what is negative told about him?? and ghouri is only considered invader even slave dynasty was established by Qutubuddin Aibak

They don’t have much resources in their country and they are from the tribe of pactyan very much similar to tribe of Jats, Scythian. Both have similar society even khap panchyat and Loya Jirga has similar organization structure.
Afghanistan pretty much connects to everything in the region. even if they want to live in peace, no one will allow them to do the same. And not every pashtoon was trouble for India, Pashtoons like Raskhan wrote dohas praising Bhagwan Krishn

muqawwee123 · February 4, 2012, 4:56pm

Re: Conflicting Heroes

the_kaur:

Third battle of panipat not only destroyed marathas but also decimated power of Ahmed Shah Abdali hence he didn't invade any other city except Delhi. Agra, gwalior, ajmer all were saved because of this, Maratha empire disintegrated only after 1857, Majority of leaders of revolt were marathas, nana saheb, tatya tope, laxmi bai etc.

Ghaznavi's raid was just to loot India, it is well known he has constructed beautiful capital named Ghazni through this, and even Brits attacked India because of resources

IT was to establish himself as leader of Islam and his own greed in shadow of spreading Islam

It was well known about its hidden treasures even. The siva linga idol had diamonds inside it when it was broken and yes somnath did take his revenge!!

how different Sikhs look different from Pashtoons?? and what do they say, I wish to know. William Dalrymple wrote about mughals in much better and researched way, question is what do you think about his work??

*what is negative told about him?? and ghouri is only considered invader even slave dynasty was established by Qutubuddin Aibak *

They don't have much resources in their country and they are from the tribe of pactyan very much similar to tribe of Jats, Scythian. Both have similar society even khap panchyat and Loya Jirga has similar organization structure.

Afghanistan pretty much connects to everything in the region. even if they want to live in peace, no one will allow them to do the same. And not every pashtoon was trouble for India, Pashtoons like Raskhan wrote dohas praising Bhagwan Krishn

Thanks for you inpt the kaur.

Ghauri is treted like hero and we have named our missiles after him, whereas India has Prithvi missiles. This shows conflict of Heroes.

Knowing that Ghoris attacks were just to loot or extend his state the only argument handy with his supporters is he was a Muslim and was attacking India to form a Muslim state.

For negative portayal of Prithvi, we have to go through the historical novels. As far a I know, Naseem Hijazi (the top most writer of historical novels) didn't write a novel on Ghori and Ghori is given least coverage in text books compared to Ghaznavi. On the contrary, we don't hear much of Jaipal from Indian side as compared to Prithvi.

the_kaur · February 5, 2012, 5:27am

Re: Conflicting Heroes

Actually Pakistan got it wrong, Basic elements of nature, Vayu, agni, Jal, prithvi, Akash. and human body can be disintegrated back into nature through any of these means, A hindu young person if dies is buried, adult is burned, and one can take even "Jal Samadhi", Bhagwan Ram chose Jal Samadhi, it is simply drowning in river by choice. Prithvi is surface to surface missile, Surface to Air missile is Akash, Agni is most primary and sacred element. It is present in every object of nature, Temperature is degree of hotness, and hotness represents Agni. hence missile name agni describes its supreme power.

Even military exercises have name like Sudarshan Shakti, Parakram, Vijay etc.

Indian history writing is always centered around fate of Delhi, even Mahabharat is centered around Delhi. Ancient history ends with king harshwardhan of Kannauj. Prithviraj is taught in medieval history as king of Ajmer and Delhi, His maternal grandfather was King of Delhi Anangpal Tomar and in fact Prithviraj defeated Ghouri in first battle of Tarain, and following kshtriya dharma didn't attack retreating army, both krishna and chankya would have termed it foolish though:D

and yes genuine question, what do sikhs say about pashtoons dressing sense??

ninja_hattori · February 5, 2012, 5:39am

Re: Conflicting Heroes

they say that pashtun started wearing shalwar kamiz out of fear of sikhs...to save them selve from sikh wrath....

but we have chetak helicopter,

muqawwee123 · February 5, 2012, 8:46am

Re: Conflicting Heroes

But how wearing Shalwar Kameez saved Pashtuns from the rage of Sikhs. As far as I know, Shalwar Kameez is used in Pathans for centuries and people of Punjab including Sikhs were more into Dhoti kurta.

Chetak is the name the horse of Rana Partap, who fought against the most loved Mughal emperor Akbar. Akbar on his own is a conflicting character of sub continent history.

ninja_hattori · February 5, 2012, 8:57am

Re: Conflicting Heroes

on few sikh forums they say that before sikh attacks pashtun used to wear single dress like arabs.....

but due to fear of sikh attackers pashtun started wearing shalwar&kamiz to imitate women when the heard that sikh warriors are sparing women even they claim that pashtun men shaved their beard due to fear of sikhs.......

muqawwee123 · February 5, 2012, 9:42am

Re: Conflicting Heroes

Here are some facts about the origin of Shalwar Qameez:

The Shalwar Kameez has a very significant place in the History of the Textiles and traces its roots back to the invasion and subsequent rule of the Indian subcontinent by central Asians as far back as 400 CE. Evidence of Persian influence on Textiles and Clothing in India can be traced to the Kushan Empire (001 AD). Coinage and stone palettes found from the Indo-Scythian/Parthian period show Greek and Persian influences in clothing. The palettes depict people dressed in caps or head-bands, ruched long sleeved Tunics, calf-length Coats worn loose crossed-over from right to left and secured with leather or metal belt and baggy trousers.

The Timurids (Muslim Dynasty of Turko Mongols) who invaded the northern part of the subcontinent in the 12th century brought with them their traditional nomadic Attire with its Persian and Turk Mongol influences. The descendants of the Timurids established the Mughal Empire (derived from Mogulistan or Land of Mongols- AD 1526-AD 1857).

**The Mughal rule is considered a ‘golden age’ of textile crafts in the Sub-continent. By the seventeenth century, Jamah, Chogha(cape) and Anghrakha remained the height of fashion along with accessories for men such as the Atamsukh (a long, loose garment worn like an overcoat in winters), Turban (the style of tying the turban varied according to social status), Patka, Jutis (shoes) and Farji (kind of a coat) etc. **The precursor of the current Cummerband was another popular piece of clothing (called Kamarbandh meaning waistband) worn as girdle or waistcoat by both men and women to enhance the bust-line. The court Garments of era were marked by intricate patterning of clothing and delicate handmade embellishments.

The form of dressing followed by Indian classical Kathak dancers is a near accurate portrayal of the styles of clothing in the Mughal period and shows vividly the influences in the fashion world in the Indian subcontinent today.

The Mughal emperors are renowned for their impassioned interest in painting, architecture, jewellery making literature and poetry, textiles. Textiles flourished remarkably under the Mughals. Various techniques of weaving, crinkling, dying, patterning and embroidery were developed and encouraged. Interestingly, each emperor maintained his own contemporary style of dressing in court and otherwise.

Badshah Babar who laid the foundation for the empire came from the cooler climate of Samarkand, retained the costumes of his homeland. The most popular Garments in his period were a long Coat called Chafan and a sheep-skin Overcoat called Postin worn with Pajama-like trousers. His son, Humayun introduced Persian elements in the court costumes. A patron of arts and painting and passionately interested in astronomy, he is said to have sought the help of planetary movements in choosing what to wear. He also maintained a special treasure house in his palace to accommodate Textiles and Garments.

Humayun’s successor Jalaluddin Akbar led the empire to its classic and most flourishing period in history. This Classic period saw the spread of the empire from the north to most areas of the Indian subcontinent. His reign encouraged a synthesis of Persian and Indian styles in everything from architecture to clothing. This led to the flowering of classical forms, styles and shapes that later became an integral part of Indian Dress Design.

**Akbar took the initiative of introducing local textiles, which were best suited to the hot climate of the region. **He commissioned workshops for carpet making, textile design and was devoted himself to making haberdashery which he considered a pleasant pastime! **He himself took interest in the fashioning of Court Dresses and introduced the Chakdar Jamah to his court, which is a cross over Tunic, with slits around the skirt and an asymmetrical hemline. The men dressed in a Tunic called Jamah and was worn with close fitting Pajama trousers called Izar and later known as Shalwar. Although it was in fashion in India since medieval times, Akbar restyled the garment and developed it into a formal gown by removing slits, rounding the hemline and increasing the fullness of the Skirt. The Tunic was tightened at the waist by a belt of fabric with tassels called Patka. The Jamah which was knee long in the beginning, reached up to the ankles (referred to as Sarbgati meaning that which covers the entire body) in the later Mughal days.

**The women’s Dress of the empire consisted of close fitting trousers paired with a bodice (a variation of Jamah called Angharakha or Qameez) that came down to the end of the Shalwar and worn with a half-sleeved embroidered open Jacket with a delicate transparent Shawl(called Paramnarm meaning extremely soft) draped like a sari.

During subsequent reigns of Shah Jahan and Aurangazeb the royal garments became more decorated with heavy embellishments of floral designs. Motifs were outlined with gold thread coupled with ‘Pietra-dura’ effect of the precious stones. Block printing and the art of Kalamkari (meaning pen work) were rejuvenated with Persian influences of Persian flower motifs and designs by the 17th century.

http://www.babaaj.com/store/pc/History-and-Origin-of-Salwar-Kameez-d14.htm

ninja_hattori · February 5, 2012, 9:47am

Re: Conflicting Heroes

:k: jazakallah

muqawwee123 · February 5, 2012, 9:49am

Re: Conflicting Heroes

you read it so quickly.

Anyway

ninja_hattori · February 5, 2012, 9:50am

Re: Conflicting Heroes

yes :)

the_kaur · February 6, 2012, 12:15pm

Re: Conflicting Heroes

Chetak is also name of Nakshtra, Just like India's first satellite's name was Rohini

Maharana pratap is known for his standing against Mughal suzerainty. Chetak is among 27 Nakshtras, Hindus follow lunar calender, Moon positions itself in one nakshtra for one day, and hindu moon god is believed to be married with 27 Nakshtra, his most favorite Nakshtra is Rohini, name of India's first satellite, the other was named after great mathematician called Aryabhatta, Mi-35 Hind helicopter is called "Akbar" though

If some one is talking about pashtoons in that way not only they are biased but also unknowledged. Pashtoon-Sikh rivalry began when Golden Temple was desecrated by Ahmed Shah Abdali. I think for entire pashtoon-sikh rivalry we need another thread. And I can tell you what other things these sikh sites might be saying, let me guess "raj karega khalsa, Khalistan Zindabad etc, right!!:)