concubine

[ravage]

Re: concubine

it isnt adultery, its a regulated form of conduct just as polygamy is. why would a spouse be okay with another spouse but not a concubine? that said, these days it would be very hard to find a spouse okay with either. which is why you cant do it these days, because you cant sacrifice something mandatory (keeping spouse happy) for something allowed but non mandatory.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: concubine

So when does it become adultery and when does it become "having a concubine"?

Where is the dividing line?

[mAd_ScIeNtIsT]

Re: concubine

@PyariCgudia

So when does it become adultery and when does it become “having a concubine”?

Where is the dividing line?

When it’s someone who’s not your spouse and is not your slave, then it’s adultery.

[mAd_ScIeNtIsT]

Re: concubine

@lussi

^ but that wudnt make sense..on one side the punishment for adultery is very harsh (like 100 lashes)…on the other u can cheat on your spouse with your slave?

It’s not cheating, anymore than sleeping with your second wife is not a form of cheating on your first wife.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: concubine

How about if you like that girl over there, make her your slave, and then have relations with her? Would that be pre-meditated adultery or halaal concubinage?

[mAd_ScIeNtIsT]

Re: concubine

@PyariCgudia

How about if you like that girl over there, make her your slave, and then have relations with her? Would that be pre-meditated adultery or halaal concubinage?

You’re not allowed to enslave free people. Only captives were allowed as slaves.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: concubine

Oh and mind you, if this whole concubine deal is really real, then it must be a consenting concubine. You can't have sex with a slave girl against her will.

So the situation of having a slave girl, in this day and age, that too consenting, and that too with your wife comfortable with it...yeah, only in your dreams.

[ravage]

Re: concubine

[quote]

You can't have sex with a slave girl against her will.

[/quote]

not that i disagree with this, but can someone provide Islamic basis for this? I read some terrible reports some years ago about maids being raped in saudi arab and it being justified as having sex with a concubine. i understand that the government has cracked down on such stuff, but is there Islamic basis for this statement or was it just assumed that Muslims would have some sense of decency?

[PyariCgudia]

Re: concubine

Yeah, man, there is an ayah in the Quran about not transgressing upon women against their will. Its somewhere around the area it talks about the supposed "right hand".

And then of course, there is the debate that "right hand" does not mean concubine at all.

[Let_Uz_Chat]

Re: concubine

@PyariCgudia

Yeah, I doubt that, to be quite honest. I put up a post on Maria the Copt a long time ago, and people like Maddie and others I think were saying that the Prophet :saw:] had actually married her, and that she had converted pretty close to the first time she heard him speak about Islam.

I am not sure about what other concubines there were? Its funny, you’d think their identities would have been recorded in history, and people would know for sure if he :saw:] was having sexual relations with them or not, since he’s :saw:] our main example of a follower of Islam?

!

[Let_Uz_Chat]

Re: concubine

@PyariCgudia

I thought the reason for that verse was some other reason, regarding the general bickering among the wives in general (Aisha
:razi2:] , Hafsa :razi2:] , and some others). I never heard of Maria the Copt being involved in their jealousy issues.

At least that’s what I’ve read on the verse. Again, many references I’ve read have claimed that their is controversy over Maria the Copt, and most scholars agree that he :saw:] married her before he :saw:] had any relations with her, since she accepted Islam almost as soon as she was captured. Who knows though. I don’t know if Aisha (R) has many hadith’s recorded on her though.

And I do not see anywhere in that hadith any reference to Maria as being the issue that Aisha :razi2:] and Hafsa :razi2:] were fighting on.

@PyariCgudia

Another reference: I suppose she really was with him :saw:] for a very limited time, so maybe that is why there is so much confusion as to whether he :saw:] really “married” her or not.

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/reference/maria_al-qibtiyya

!

[Let_Uz_Chat]

Re: concubine

@PyariCgudia

Frankly, I think it is. Otherwise, you’d see it all over the place that look, the Prophet :saw:] had a concubine, so should we all.

!

[Sheeda_Tallee]

Re: concubine

I am totally confused on this issue. Pyari's concerns are valid and appeal to me. Its totally baffling to have sex with concubines. I am never clear on the "right hand" thing.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: concubine

I don't think it was one of those things meant to continue for long. You can't encourage muslims to have sex with slaves when at the same time, you are encouraging muslims to free slaves. I think the whole bondage of slaves and sexual abuse of them was a common trend at the time (surprisingly, bondage has not ended today, and its not limited to muslim countries). So to gradually abolish the whole slavery deal, it was done slowly. In the meantime, men were most likely allowed to have their slaves, but over time were encouraaged to give them up, or marry the females if parties all accepted it.

What I do not get is centuries after the Prophet passed away, there were still concubines. Shouldn't slaves have been freed by then, and slavery just generally abolished?

I think the issue is just brought up again and again simply becuase we have perverted muslim guys who are hoping for some jihaad so they can get some hot attractive American female to make their sex slave. Its pretty sick the way muslims talk of this whole concubine issue.

[ravage]

Re: concubine

what? who are you talking about?

[quote]

I think the issue is just brought up again and again simply becuase we have perverted muslim guys who are hoping for some jihaad so they can get some hot attractive American female to make their sex slave. Its pretty sick the way muslims talk of this whole concubine issue.
[/quote]

[Code_Red]

Re: concubine

@PyariCgudia

I don’t think it was one of those things meant to continue for long. You can’t encourage muslims to have sex with slaves when at the same time, you are encouraging muslims to free slaves. I think the whole bondage of slaves and sexual abuse of them was a common trend at the time (surprisingly, bondage has not ended today, and its not limited to muslim countries). So to gradually abolish the whole slavery deal, it was done slowly. In the meantime, men were most likely allowed to have their slaves, but over time were encouraaged to give them up, or marry the females if parties all accepted it.

You got the general idea right :k:

What I do not get is centuries after the Prophet passed away, there were still concubines. Shouldn’t slaves have been freed by then, and slavery just generally abolished?

Who gave you an idea that slavery has abolished in present day ?
It is pretty much there in third world countries and of course in Arab world where they import slaves from third world

I think the issue is just brought up again and again simply becuase we have perverted muslim guys who are hoping for some jihaad so they can get some hot attractive American female to make their sex slave. Its pretty sick the way muslims talk of this whole concubine issue.

Qarz ki peetey they mai our samajhtey they !
Rang laye gi apni faqa masti ik din !