Command the good and prohibit the evil

Is speaking against deviant pseudo-Islaamic groups a waste of time and energy and in fact total contradiction to Qur’ân and Sunnah??

In Soorah Aal’imraan 3:110 Allah says “you are the best nation raised up among mankind (because) you command the good and prohibit the evil” Commanding the good is not sufficient in itself to earn us the title “best of the nations” it must be complemented by the prohibitions of evil {an Nahi ‘An Al-Munkar }: Not to mention the classical Ahaadeeth in which the prophet (saws) said “who ever sees evil should stop it with his hands, but if he is unable he should speak against it …”{Narrated by Abu sa’eed al-khudree} and If we review the lives of the Sahâbah and the early scholars, we find them not only teaching Islaam, But also condemning whatever innovations {Bid’ah} or Deviations occurred around them, In every era there arose ideas which challenged the pure concept of Islaam, and were it not for scholars who arose to oppose them, the deviant ideas would have over whelmed the masses, “When some people mentioned to
IMAAM AHMED IBN HANBAL {rahim’ullah} that they felt uneasy about critising people he replied,” If I were to remain silent, how would the ignorant masses know truth from falsehood?" Those who introduce heretical writings and deviant religious rites contrary to Qur’ân and Sunnah have to be exposed and the Muslim nation warned against them according to the unanimous agreement of Muslim scholars Infact, Yahyaa ibn Maeen companion of IMAAM AHMED IBN HANBAL {rahim’ullah} was asked if one who fasted, prayed and secluded himself in the masjid was dearer to him than one who spoke out against people involved in Deviations, he replied, “When he fasts, Prays and secludes himself, he does so for himself alone, but if he speaks out against the Deviations, he does so for Muslims in general which is more Noble, Hence it is clear that openly opposing innovation {Bid’ah} and Deviations is of general benefit to Muslims in the practice of their religion and comes under the heading of “Jihaad fee sabeelil-laah” {struggle in Allah’s path} Purification of Allah’s religion and the repulsion of attacks against it is a general obligation {Fard kifaayah} on Muslims by unanimous agreement. For if Allah did not raise up some people to oppose the corruption preached by heretics, the religion would surely become distorted and deviant, The corruption of the Divinely revealed religion is far more terrible than the corruption resulting from the military conquest of the Non-Muslims, For when Non-Muslims over powers Muslims they are not able to corrupt the hearts of Muslims, or their religion except after some time , whereas, heretics corrupt the hearts from the very outset”

Muhammad (saws) when he said : “The one who loves for the sake of Allah and hates for the sake of Allah, he will taste the sweetness of Eemaan (faith)”. Thus it is a part of Faith, that we evaluate the evidences of those who preach Islam, and thus correct our Islam so that we may be guided. In this regard,
Ibn Sireen {rahim’ullah} said as quoted in the introduction to Sahih Muslim said: “This (hadeeth) is the religion! So be careful as to whom you take this religion”.
Ibn Taahir al-Maqdisi al-Haafidh {rahim’ullah} said, “I heard the Imaam, Abu Ismaa’eel 'Abdullaah bin Muhammad al-Ansaari {rahim’ullah} saying, whilst in Haraah: 'The sword was put to my neck five times [and each time] it was not said to me, ‘Leave your madhhab’ but it was said to me, ‘Remain silent about those who are in opposition to you’. So I would say, ‘I will not remain silent’.” [Aadaab us-Sharee’ah (1/207) of Ibn Muflih al-Maqdisi al-Hanbali].
Al-Humaidee, the Shaikh of al-Bukhaaree {rahim’ullah} said, “By Allaah, that I war against those who reject the Ahaadeeth of the Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) is more beloved to me than that I should war against the same number of Non-Muslims.” [Al-Harawi in Dhamm ul-Kalaam].
Ibn al-Qayyim {rahim’ullah} said, “The Jihaad with decisive proofs [from the Book and the Sunnah] and the tongue takes precedence over the Jihaad with the sword and the teeth.” [Al-Jawaab us-Saheeh of Ibn Taymiyyah (1/237)].
Nasr bin Zakariyaa {rahim’ullah} said, I heard Muhammad bin Yahyaa adh-Dhuhlee saying, I heard Yahyaa bin Yahyaa saying, “Defence of the Sunnah is more superior than Jihaad in the path of Allaah.” So I said, "A man spends his wealth, tires his body and strives (in Jihaad), so is this one (still) better than him? He said, “Yes, by many times!” [Dhammu ul-Kalaam of al-Harawi].
Fudayl ibn ‘Iyaad {rahim’ullah} said: “Whichever man comes to asking for advice and he directs him to an innovator then he has acted deceitfully towards Islam, and beware of entering upon a person of innovation since they prevent from the truth.” (Al-Laalikaa’ee, no.261)

Allahu Alim


‘Rabbee zidnee`ilmaa’
My Lord! Increase me in knowledge.[20:114]

The Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) said:
“Whoever sets out on a path to seek knowledge, Allaah will make easy his path to Paradise.”
[Saheeh Muslim]

[quote]
per appkiamanat:
Is speaking against deviant pseudo-Islaamic groups a waste of time and energy and in fact total contradiction to Qur'ân and Sunnah??
[/quote]

You - a woman is a CONTRADICTION of the quran & sunnah which DEGRADES woman as often as possible and that woman is still its biggest supporter.

Every human is :
"the best of mankind"
in the eyes of the supreme being.

How can muslims (the ones who are not the deviants according to appkiammanat's) definition)claim to be the best of mankind when they are the:
"worst of mankind"

Something to think about! But, you have given that up for a dogma that treats you like a piece of meat.

I hope you can read, if you can write/type. The Muslims cannot be “best” until follow Quran and Sunnah, so today’s Muslims are not anyway closer to be being “best”. (I am talking about Muslims generally, on mass basis, individiually there must be some good Muslims around).

Rest of your blabbering is ignored

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif


May Allah SWT guide us all towards right and help us follow the right

[This message has been edited by Changez_like (edited May 23, 2002).]

Adbul

As usual, you've got it wrong again.

Your errors are like clockwork and death!

In other words, GUARANTEED.

The Muslims are the best of creatures and Non-Muslims, like you, are the worst!

Don't take my word for it.

Research for yourself.

Your own Creator has said so:

098.006 Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures.

098.007 Those who have faith and do righteous deeds,- they are the best of creatures.

If you disagree, don't come crying to me, complain to God.

And as far as women are concerned, you'd best look closer to home!!!

** Shiism ** treats women like crap. ** NOT ISLAM. **

One little example is the concept of ** one-hour mut’ah **

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

But, when the Shiite religion was being formulated ** about 1200 or more years ago **, it was politically correct to treat women like animals. People couldn’t have imagined what the world would have been like 1200 years later. So, they came up with such unintelligible and ridiculous beliefs and concepts, which although must have sounded very complex and modern 1200 years ago, but are now at best laughable.

** This is the problem with every religion * EXCEPT * Islam. **

Only Islam is applicable at all times and all ages.

For example, consider the hadeeth of the Holy Prophet (S) where he said that ** had he not feared that it would cause much hardship to his Ummah, he would have made using the miswaak (natural toothbrush - “daantun”) obligatory. ** Now, only a Prophet could have seen that far, and been that practical.

Watch your language. You are not in your Imambara.


When My servants ask thee concerning Me, ** I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: ** Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way. (Holy Qur’an 2:186)

Great post Sister

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

Please do not be discouraged by the vulgar comments that you may receive from the heretics.

May Allah bless you and guide you. Aameen.


When My servants ask thee concerning Me, ** I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: ** Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way. (Holy Qur’an 2:186)

[quote]
Originally posted by sholay:
**
Adbul

And as far as women are concerned, you'd best look closer to home!!!**
[/quote]

You mean - the West!

In the west if you:
1)Married FOUR women at one time - you go to jail.

2)Try treating her "officially Sanctioned from Up above" as a piece of meat like the below:
"women are like a tilth(field) so till(cultivate) her as you see fit" HQ.
and, you would go to Jail!

3)Try labelling women as 1/2 of men or DEFICIENT in intelligence & religion and you will have the laws of the infidels breathing down your back and you will go to jail.

WOULD you like me to continue....

ADBUL

Just in case you forgot, some of us are actually born, bred and educated in the West.

But that doesn't mean we forget who we are!!

However, please inform us as to when did the West grant women the Right to Divorce, Vote and Inheritance to name but a few?

While you're at it, you can comment on Marriage,Abortion,Rape,Divorce,Single Parents,Health,Alcohol,Smoking and Pornography issues specifically related to women in the West!

You may use at least 3 centuries as a guide!!!

And as far as equality is concerned, western women are nothing but sexual objects, fooled into false equality but in reality, dictated by Capitalism, Feminism, Marxism, Liberalism and any other 'ism you want to throw in for good measure.

Like I said, take a closer look at home.

And oh yes, please do continue!!!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

very true. All these “isms” are part of ‘fitna-e-dajjal’ where people will be fooled in name of equality, independence, feminism etc.


May Allah SWT guide us all towards right and help us follow the right

Khee khee kheee

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggthumb.gif

Great post bro

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

[quote]
Originally posted by sholay:
**
ADBUL

You may use at least 3 centuries as a guide!!!**
[/quote]

OKAY!

Over the last 3 centuries:

1)The Infidel West became enlightened;

Islam slept thru it; decided 'enlightenment' is a kuffar concept.

2) The Infidel West had an industrial revolution and then an Equality revolution and more recently a computer & space revolution - to name a few.

Islam slept thru it; decided all those did not exist in the Quran & Sunnah and was thus - Kuffar!

3) The Infidel West freed the slaves; gave women the vote; put minorities in office of power.

Islam slept right thru it! Decided that Slaves are eternal as every word of the quran and cannot be abolished; women in islam still struggle to find dignity & respect; while - minorities are for all eternity - damned!

SHOLAY:
You missed a big point which is:
The Infidel society can "evolve";
while Islam will sleep right thru all evolutions because to EVOLVE - is KUFFAR!

Should we continue...

**Not in this thread! No derailing!

Adbul, if you wish to discuss something else, open another topic.

Oh, and in the meantime, i suggest you contact admin to get a spell check on that name!

Sentinel.**

Adbul

I would appreciate it, if you can give factual responses to my query concerning Women in the West (which by the way, you started), and not some Final Fantasy XI imaginatory wishlist ideals!

If you are struggling, just admit it, rather than embarass yourself further!

See Ya!!

[quote]
Originally posted by sholay:
**
Adbul

I would appreciate it, if you can give factual responses to my query concerning Women in the West (which by the way, you started), and not some Final Fantasy XI imaginatory wishlist ideals!

If you are struggling, just admit it, rather than embarass yourself further!

See Ya!!**
[/quote]

Sholay,

DE-RAILING like what ? And, why should I derail?

That Islam treates woman as 'meat' according to the DIVINE wish /injunction of Allah!

and,

the Infidel WEST treats both - men & women as 'meat' per their individual design or choice.
Stated differently - many woman see men as 'piece of meat' and not per the DIVINE injuction.
Being a piece of meat is not the prerogative of men only!

The Difference is:
One dogma treats only the woman as - meat.
The other treats both as - meat and per individual choice.

GOOD LUCK with your delusions.

You see - points like these are mute! But - I am still impressed that you wish to beat the drum about a creed that is bankrupt!

Adbul

Thanks for admitting your shortcomings.

You can now start rebuilding your credibility. (What's left of it that is)!

Let us worry about our Bankruptcy, while you run along and invent something new!

Why bother come to a Forum where the majority are Bankrupts????

Imagine if you ever were a Business Advisor!

Salvaging just ONE business would be a Miracle!

See Ya, Cuz I Wouldn't Wanna Be Ya!!

Sholay,

Now - who is stalling or De-Railing?

The FACT is - Orthodox/Fundamentalist/Extremist Islam can never EVOLVE or make the necessary progess reqd. because that is - KUFFAR!

Women for all eternity remain:
"tilth to be tilled as men see them fit" (HOLY QURAN)
and,
non-muslims for all eternity remain:
"vilest of all beings" (HOLY QURAN)

and, on and on - she goes. Where she (Islam) stops - nobody knows!

All will be left in the end will be brainwashed people like you running around proclaiming the blasphemy and insult that is - Orthodox Islam!

Adbul

I gave you a golden opportunity to bail out, but as usual, you just couldn't resist and failed to use common sense and save the embarrassment I'm going to cause you. If you are hell bent on shouting at a brick wall expecting a response to your queries, then so be it!

I'd prefer to have a dialogue with a Human!

Now let me take you to school, Oh champion of Womens Rights!!

I asked you to comment on issues related to Women in the West, and how did you respond?

Stutter! You actually started to STUTTER.

Not one factual response came back from you, just the middle part of your name started to flow! '..bul......'

As late as 1856, women in Britain were not allowed to keep their earnings and had no right of Inheritance.

In 1857, divorced women were granted the same rights as single women, but married women had to wait until 1893 to receive the same rights.

In 1928, women were given the Right to Vote.

In 1975, women were given the right to Equal Pay. However, this is still male dominated and women are still begging and sometimes selling themselves in order to be gratnted this right!

Abortions

In Britain, abortions have increased by ten fold since it was 'legalised' in 1968.In that year alone there were 22,000. You can work the fifure out for yourself!

In USA the figures are even more horrific. Abortion rates have increased since records began!

In Japan, the most 'advanced' industrial country of the World. Abortion is twice the rate of USA!

The former USSR is even worse. In 1965 12.8 million abortions were carried out from a total population of 233 million.

The Freedom of choice under the guise of the First World civilisation, which you are part and parcel of, has claimed the hideous slaughter of over ONE BILLION lives throughout the world over the past 25 years!

In the barbaric past, infant girls were killed for economic reasons. Now children are killed to destroy the evidence of adultery, fornication and mischief!

These figures account only for those that were registered. As for illegal abortions and those carroied out in private, Only Allah knows best!!

Rape

In USA, the country proclaiming the greatest freedom of rights, has the World's highest rape rate. It is 4 times higher than Germany, 18 times higher than UK, 20 times higher than Japan!

In USA, 1.3 Women are raped every minute. That equates to 78 each hour,1,872 each day and 683,280 each year!!

And who carries out these rapes? Not Muslim men and women, I can assure you.

I'll leave that for you to figure out. On second thoughts, you most probably already know!

Rape has a devastating emotional, mental and psychological impact on the Victims and their families. USA census reports, 1.3 million currently have a mental disorder, due to rape, called Rape Related Post Traumatic Disorder.. 3.8 million have previously had this disorder and roughly 211,000 women will develop it each year!!

Marriage and Divorce

Britain has the highset Divorce rate in the EU.

In USA, the divorce rate has increased from 708,000 in 1970, to 1.1 million in 1990. Whereas during the same period the marriage rates have remained virtually static, despite the rise in ' marriageable age' population.

As we speak, the Divorce rate is increasing at an alarming rate and is the worlds highest!

Single Parents

This is yet another depressing statistic. It has increased since the advent of the so-called 'womens liberation'.

The number of births to unmarried mothers is increasing on a yearly basis. Girls of under the age of 15 are giving birth and the number of illigitimate births are also increasing.

The reality of all these births is that women are bearing most, if not all, of the responsibility for raising these children!

Another 'right and liberation' given to the Western Woman!

Health

Studies from 1850 until the the Second World War show that men used to be more prone to Mental Disorders than women. However, since the 50's the whole scenario has changed,and women are more prone!!!!

Why?

Because women find there position in society to be more frustrating and less rewarding than men! She is expected to display masculine traits in the workplace, but also to maintain her 'femininity'. A dual Burden!!!!

Alcohol & Smoking

The Western development of the equality of the sexes has been accompanied by an increase in the vices that were previously thought to be a male preserve.

Women who now drink and smoke is now more or less the same as the men!!

Why?

Equality I suppose again.

And what are the benefits of the two most dangerous drugs on the face of the earth?

Kill the women, in the name of equality!!

Equality alright!!

Pornography

'Mere available commodoties to be used and cast aside'.

Women are led to believe that by selling their bodies, they are achieving equality. But in reality they become subordinate to men who use the idea of equlaity to exploit women for their own desires and financial
gain! MEAT MARKET.

This is the state of affairs which you ADBUL subscribe to, under the false notion of civilisation, progress and equality have brought humankind, where Women are victimised in ever increasing numbers to vices and mistreatment that any sane person would abhor and seek to eliminate.

To summarise, within the last hour the following has taken place in your World:

1 woman was raped

18 women got divorced

20 women had abortions

24 children were born to women without husbands.

These same events will be repeated in the next hour, and in the hour after that.

As you go through your daily routine of sleeping, waking and chatting 'bul', this sorry state of events will continue and the number of women victims will continue!!!

I haven't even touched on your belief system yet! Whatever it is.

If you don't disclose your Faith, I will understand your embarassment. Maybe that is the only way you can 'save face'.

To be utterly emabarrassed about the Way of Life you have chosen for yourself.

Next time you want to speak.

Use the head on your shoulders and not the one between your legs!!!

Sholay,

Copy & paste is your best friend - the source I presume was an Islamic website!

You state some statistics re: the Kafir women as follows:

[quote]
per Sholay:
*As late as 1856, women in Britain were not allowed to keep their earnings and had no right of Inheritance.

In 1857, divorced women were granted the same rights as single women, but married women had to wait until 1893 to receive the same rights.

In 1928, women were given the Right to Vote.

In 1975, women were given the right to Equal Pay. However, this is still male dominated and women are still begging and sometimes selling themselves in order to be gratnted this right!*
[/quote]

POINTS TO PONDER:

The Infidel society has EVOLVED and continues to evolve.

Can the Islamic societies EVOLVE?

What has Islam done for its women in the same time frame that you have cited?

*-> Nothing! *

Because what was good in the 7th century for muslim women is good for all eternity!

If you scroll above - you will see clear references to this, yet - you persist that God in his infininte mercy did indeed wish it this way, or:

Women are tilth(field) so men may till her as they see fit (HQ).

and for all eternity!

RE: RAPE, ASSAULT AGAINST WOMEN:

You have cited statistics against the Kafir women in support of, I guess, superiority of Islamic system in the ways it treats the half of its population - the women.

QUESTIONS:
1)Would I be able to find comparable statistics of crime against women in muslim country?

2)Do all muslim women report crimes against them?

3)If they did - how would their complaints be handled first by their own family and second by the legal system?

She, in accordance to sharia'h, be asked to provide FOUR reliable witnesses - muslims, male & adult that can vouch for her.

Failure means that she is the perpetrator of the crime and the penalty is that - she be STONED!

Interesting mode of justice!

I presume - sexual assaults & other crimes against muslim women take place out in the open - as spectator sport, which is the only reason to demand FOUR eye-witnesses and that too - male, muslim & adult.

RE:ABORTIONS:

It would be silly to assume that abortions - as method of birth control to do not take place in Islamic countries.

In the urban centres - most women know where to locate an abortion centre.

Just like sexual & physical assaults - this category is also heavily under-reported!

For a society that allows FOUR wives at a time, bars family planing and at the same time cannot adequately provide for their maintenance & future reminds one of the breeding habits of rabits who multiply like crazy and quickly eat thru the existing resources. Muslims, unlike the rabbits have this fallback - it is the will of Allah!

RE: DIVORCE, SINGLE PARENT:

You freely cite the high divorce rate in the West . I guess that is to be expected in an "EVOLVING SOCIETY" where both the partners have EQUAL rights to marriage & divorce. It is equally acceptable in a Secular society to have Single parents and Gay Parents.

Any one of them would compare as a better human being over an average muslim.

Islam has solved his problem of Divorce by making it impossible for women to divorce abd granting men to have FOUR wives at one time.

ALLAH - surely is a man!

THE WEST vs. Islamic Societies:

The West is not a perfect society but it is an Open Society which STRIVES for equity for all.

The Other Society i.e. that of Islam is a Closed Society based on Allah's teachings (supposedly) which STRIVES to convert all to the ways of the 7th century which is sharply in conflict with civilized behaviour.

You - for example, are a product of the free society. You would have been nothing if this Kafir society had not nurtured you, protected you and given you the opportunity to flourish.

In any other muslim country - you would have choked. The saudis call you - mishkin(beggar) and demand that you carry ID with you all the time.

Should we continue.....

Adbul

Here you go again!

Asumptions, assumptions, assumptions.

I very rarely copy & paste!

Copy & Paste are for the lazy, gullible likes of you, who just accept everything written by any Tom, Dick an Harry!!

Some of us actually study, research and cross reference before giving and opinion.

I suggest you contact the appropriate Government bodies from the countries I mentioned and clarify the statistics. You may not like what you hear. You might even accuse them of 'copy & pasting'.

The subject here is Woman and Islam. Not who nurtured who! An issue which you foolishly started and attempted to deal with without actually having any knowledge.

When you're presented with facts of a System you subscribe to. What do you do?

You start crying and try to find excuses, rather than take resposibility of your flawes.

Just look at your classical responses!

Empty!

Not one factual response. Instead we see your pathectic attempt to find a reason and then blame Islam.

The proof is always in the pudding!

And then you've got the nerve to ask if you should continue!

How can one continue who is ashamed of his own Belief System and refuses to disclose.

At least if you were brave enough to admit whatever Faith, if any, you followed, we could then do a comparatibve study and then decide who offers who what!

Until then, keep barking at the apple tree hoping for the apple to fall down. Whilst the rest of us simply pop down to the local supermarket and buy one!!!!!

Please don't waste my time.