This is not a sectarian thread but rather a central point on discussing Sunni Islam. As an orthodox Muslim, I feel that we have lost a certain cohesiveness that should exist within faith. Unlike the Shiites, we don’t have that hierarchical clergy, however we have fallen behind in our center for learning/ijtihad and in propagating Islamic orthodoxy. Places like Al-Azhar have become tools of political/secular government (Egypt), while the word “Wahabi” has become a slur, and we see greater divisions such as the Deobandi/Barelvi schism being played out in Pakistan.
As the largest Muslim group, what are our options towards achieving greater cohesiveness and retaking the mantle of leadership of Islam. Please refrain from attacking minority sects, as the greater fault lies in our inability to lead the Ummah rather than some conspiracy.
"It has become increasingly clear in recent times how important it is to unify the Muslims of Tradition, known as the “Salafis” and “Sufis” in the most crudest of terms, but more accurately referring to those practising Muslims that hold to the three well known central schools of ‘aqidah (ash’ari, maturidi, and athari/salafi) at the primary level, and then a mixture of the four schools of law and “no set school of law” at the secondary level. Basically, this means me and you…
*It was with this in view that an initiative headed by Shaykh Abdullah b. Bayyah (hafidhahullah) and some of the senior Imams and Students of Knowledge in the West has just convened a week-long retreat](http://www.binbayyah.net/images/gcrg/DSCF1958.jpg) to discuss these very issues and declare a unified front against this fitnah that is creating such weakness. The “Global Centre for Renewal and Guidance” (المركزالعالمي للتجديد والترشيد) as well as many other things, has officially been launched earlier today and will be releasing a pact insha’Allah very soon cementing all that which holds Sunni Muslims together and unified so that we can move forward and deal with the real challenges facing the Ummah at the moment" _ Abu Esa * Unity Based on Renewal & Guidance | MuslimMatters.org
Alhamdulillah, a very blessed and important step was recently taken by a number of du`aat and students of knowledge in the Western world. This was done in order to achieve a more cooperative spirit and foster a greater degree of harmony amongst Sunni Muslims.
The attached ‘Pledge of Mutual Respect and Cooperation’, signed by people of diverse theological backgrounds, all of whom have historically used the label of Ahl al-Sunnah (or ‘Sunni’ for short), is intended to be a guideline for mutual interaction (a modus vivendi of sorts), primarily for themselves, and also for those who might look to them for guidance.
For the Details of the “Sunni Pledge” please check out this link :
Al-azhar has always been under influence of governments from its inception, it actually was started by Fatimid dynasty of egypt, who were Jafaris in Fiqh, it became sunni instituion much later.
Coming to yuor question, i would never like to have ahierarchial clergy in sunni Islam, it is death of independant thinking. See what happened to shia clergymen who opposed Khumeini, they were removed from status of marjia.
However, what is needed is to accept the disagrements without mudslinging and hate mongering. Tolerance is needed not only among sunnis but among all sets and faiths.
I hope Sipah-e-sahaba forgive me for this .. Anyway, given the early Sunni dynasties of ummayad and Abbasid were those who converted ( particular ummayad dynasty khalifas) when there was no option left that is when they were defeated in war of meccah so should not their imaan be considered less than perfect as per islamic theology and Shia Islam be considered more authentic given in addition they also are direct descendant of prophet.
Coming to yuor question, i would never like to have ahierarchial clergy in sunni Islam, it is death of independant thinking. See what happened to shia clergymen who opposed Khumeini, they were removed from status of marjia.
Wrong. There is no religious establishment in the world as independent as the Shia clergy who are free from government establishment financing or supporting them. All their finances come from the khums sent by the people.
Syed Khomeini was opposed by right, left, and center, and by some of the big names as Syed Khoei, Syed Baqir as Sadr etc. I am unaware of anybody being removed from the status of marja. By the way, how could one "remove" a marja? kill all of the muqalideens?
in addition they also are direct descendant of prophet.
so If I become shia then I become descendant of the Prophet (peace be upon him); hence, people should listen to me? And what if some descendant of the prophet turned to be kaffir? Should we then follow them too? We are all descendant of Prophet Adam (peace be upon him). So as per your logic, now we should even listen to the kuffaar and follow them since they are descendants of Prophet Adam (peace be upon him)?
What kind of utter nonsensical argument is this! If this was the case, I wonder why Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) did not have any children
@OP
Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said that his ummah will never unite upon error. So even though unity is important but we have to remember that there will never be unity unless we all agree upon and follow the haqq. However, we can work together for mutual case as long as we do not ignore the problematic differences and remain quite about it.
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This is not a sectarian thread but rather a central point on discussing Sunni Islam. As an orthodox Muslim, I feel that we have lost a certain cohesiveness that should exist within faith. Unlike the Shiites, we don't have that hierarchical clergy, however we have fallen behind in our center for learning/ijtihad and in propagating Islamic orthodoxy. Places like Al-Azhar have become tools of political/secular government (Egypt), while the word "Wahabi" has become a slur, and we see greater divisions such as the Deobandi/Barelvi schism being played out in Pakistan
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I think the biggest question is who defines orthodoxy and the origins of this debate goes centuries back.Until then this is our best bet
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So even though unity is important but we have to remember that there will never be unity unless we all agree upon and follow the haqq. However, we can work together for mutual case as long as we do not ignore the problematic differences and remain quite about it.
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something else that i fully support is the overthrow ( by force if neccessary) of all corrupt secular non-religious govts in muslim world.Here 12ers in the present age have a headstart with compared to sunnis.Taliban the only really genuine islamic quasi-state that existed in modern age.
But thats not always the case in the past there have been no 12er islamic states but were largely secular.
Greatest need for change is for a sunni orthodox govt in Egypt and saudi occupied arabia
I hope Sipah-e-sahaba forgive me for this .. Anyway, given the early Sunni dynasties of ummayad and Abbasid were those who converted ( particular ummayad dynasty khalifas) when there was no option left that is when they were defeated in war of meccah so should not their imaan be considered less than perfect as per islamic theology and Shia Islam be considered more authentic given in addition they also are direct descendant of prophet.
sunnis dont base their fiqah on rulings given by ummayyad and abbassid caliphs.
Furthermore "shia islam" is a very diverse term historically and theologically which one do u prefer and why ?
Wrong. There is no religious establishment in the world as independent as the Shia clergy who are free from government establishment financing or supporting them. All their finances come from the khums sent by the people.
Syed Khomeini was opposed by right, left, and center, and by some of the big names as Syed Khoei, Syed Baqir as Sadr etc. I am unaware of anybody being removed from the status of marja. By the way, how could one "remove" a marja? kill all of the muqalideens?
By independant thinking i mean, being independant of "senior" clergy's influence. Currently shia clergy are very centralized around howza and only approval from the established marjas. So whatever the top clergy beleive is perpetuated.
The ayatollah who was stripped of his status was ayatullah shariatmadari, read about it.
Naturally, when say 10 independent thinkers come under a roof to work on a subject, a unified picture should emerge specially if all are working within the same framework. There will be people who will emerge as the 'seniors'. Quran too clearly sets Ilm and Taqwa as the benchmarks for greater respect and superiority.
Stripped of his status? :) whoever wrote that, does not have a slightest of the idea of what the term 'mujtahid' means in Shia Islam. Actually, Mohammad Shariatmedari, because of his position as a mujtahid, was saved execution by the government. He was not and can not be cancelled as a marja, unless people who follow him choose to not see him as marja anymore.
"Stripped of status"..Not exactly the correct words. The Grand Marja/Maraje and other mujtahids CAN denounce other mujtahids though - Such as several denouncing Ayatullah Fadlallah.
Al-azhar has always been under influence of governments from its inception, it actually was started by Fatimid dynasty of egypt, who were Jafaris in Fiqh, it became sunni instituion much later.
Coming to yuor question, i would never like to have ahierarchial clergy in sunni Islam, it is death of independant thinking. See what happened to shia clergymen who opposed Khumeini, they were removed from status of marjia.
However, what is needed is to accept the disagrements without mudslinging and hate mongering. Tolerance is needed not only among sunnis but among all sets and faiths.
Shariatmadari was not stripped of his marja, that cant happen, he was however put under house arrest for political activities and not so much because his religious differences....infact many marjas in najaf did not support the clerics coming in to government, they perferred the quietist route, however that didnt mean they were bitterlty opposed or denounced.
Infact you find from thier risaala, that most if not all mujtahid have different rulings on things, some are more strict, others more lenient, and that is perfectly normal. No marja will ask you to follow them, but will ask you to refer to your own mujtahid on fiqhi issues, and it is up to you who you think is the most knowledgable to follow.
Finally, you can only follow in practical issues only....taqleed is not required in aqead (beliefs), that part is your responsibility.
