Clarification needed on a couple things concerning Islam

[Zarvan_Ali]

Re: Clarification needed on a couple things concerning Islam

Sharabee and Med ALLAH is not only mercifull butt he is also the who destroys and gets angry when you commit sins yes he forgives people lot of times butt he is just to so he has to do justice he made the laws before making this world than he send the humans that rules are ISlam if you follow something other than Islam than he is not mercifull thats why he destroyed many nations for commiting sins like the nation of Madian and Pharoh and his partners and nation of AAD and many other nations

[Med911]

Re: Clarification needed on a couple things concerning Islam

@sharaabee

Merciful, just and loving? Is this the same god that wants to burn people for eternity for doing wrongs or being born in a family with a different religion?

Thats your interpretation, not mine. In Islam, although the point is debatable, we believe that all people can be redeemed and hell is not eternal.
And I dont believe people with a different relgion are bound for hell, nor are Muslims ensured a place in HEAVEN.

Thats the point was making. Your statemtn contradicts the belief as its expounded over and over in the Koran, that God is merciful and just. So your understanding is not the correct one.

[Captain_FT]

Re: Clarification needed on a couple things concerning Islam

Well can you please tell me what wrong i had said in my thread there? and before indirectly blaming me and saying me enemy of Islam who creating fitna you must also see my other thread there if you can see with your naked eyes. if i differ from your thoughts then that does not mean that you start calling me enemy of Islam

As for an enemy of Islam who is actively trying to do fitna against my religoin then I have the obligation of removing said threat by the means according to my faith.

.

[Captain_FT]

Re: Clarification needed on a couple things concerning Islam

i like that true statement. :)

@Zarvan_Ali

Sharabee and Med ALLAH is not only mercifull butt he is also the who destroys and gets angry when you commit sins yes he forgives people lot of times butt he is just to so he has to do justice he made the laws before making this world than he send the humans that rules are ISlam if you follow something other than Islam than he is not mercifull thats why he destroyed many nations for commiting sins like the nation of Madian and Pharoh and his partners and nation of AAD and many other nations

[Captain_FT]

Re: Clarification needed on a couple things concerning Islam

well sis you are wrong here. if persons of every religion after doing good deeds would be blessed with forgiveness then why Islam is there? people could also follow christianity and there was no need of Islam to come.? :) the main purpose of Islam was that Allah has ordered to only follow Islamic rules becoz Islam is a true and complete religion whereas others are not :)

Salaam Nisha,

There are arguments from both sides namely exclusivists VS the Pluralists. As per my understanding of Islam (which is very limited and I am always keen to learn more) the only criteria and the only standard eternal happiness and success is the real belief in Allah (swt) and the day of resurrection, accompanied by good deeds. Whoever believes with the right intention and commits right deeds, be it Christian, Jew, or whoever, will find salvation because Allah (swt) is Just.

2:62 Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve

The above verse also clearly states that Muslim, Jew, Christian are mere titles that we have chosen for ourselves and what really matter is what lies inside our hearts and the deeds that we commit. I know that many of my peers will not like me saying this but us saying we are Muslims does not necessarily constitutes that we are seen by God as such. One clear example is when holy Quran explains the high status of the Holy Prophet and his companions but ends the verse with saying "Allah has promised those among them who believe and do good, forgiveness and a great reward" (48:29). So even the companions are to be judged on the same criteria and as the verse shows only those who believed and did good will be succeeded.

Ponder on the words of Imam Ali (as) when he said "Consider the humankind your brother. Either your brothers in faith or your equals in humanity". In nobility and good deeds there are no two standards as demonstrated by a beautiful example given by Faris Udeen.

Wasalam,

ramesha

[sharaabee]

Re: Clarification needed on a couple things concerning Islam

@Med911

Thats your interpretation, not mine. In Islam, although the point is debatable, we believe that all people can be redeemed and hell is not eternal. And I dont believe people with a different relgion are bound for hell, nor are Muslims ensured a place in HEAVEN.

Thats the point was making. Your statemtn contradicts the belief as its expounded over and over in the Koran, that God is merciful and just. So your understanding is not the correct one.

Med.. I am not only talking about the Islamic god.. the judeo christian god more so... and this notion of eternal burning and hell is not my interpretation.. just of most religious people. I personally am not religious at all. But there are pages and pages in various religious books detailing how gruesome and cruel hell is..it's nothing but scare tactics.. threats.. I am not shaking haha... the "god is just and merciful" part just doesnt fit in with the rest "god is gonna burn you u better watch out mofo" stuff..

your statement "ppl from different religious are not bound for hell.. nor are muslims guaranteed heaven" - cheers to that... more religious people (from all religions) need to have this line of thinking.

[sharaabee]

Re: Clarification needed on a couple things concerning Islam

@Zarvan_Ali

Sharabee and Med ALLAH is not only mercifull butt he is also the who destroys and gets angry when you commit sins yes he forgives people lot of times butt he is just to so he has to do justice he made the laws before making this world than he send the humans that rules are ISlam if you follow something other than Islam than he is not mercifull thats why he destroyed many nations for commiting sins like the nation of Madian and Pharoh and his partners and nation of AAD and many other nations

hahahah what a tool

[Aceones]

Re: Clarification needed on a couple things concerning Islam

@Nisha25

since i asked for my other thread to be closed because it was going way off topic i opened this thread,

came across this a few times and need to know the interpretation of those verses that talk about nonmuslims, why are nonmuslims seen as the enemy of Allah?
want to know it from knowledgeable muslims only please that know the quran inside and out.

second the concept of hijab, that i was talking about in the other thread. i think it was misunderstood what i was trying to ask. i might have mixed up the issue in my mind.

when a muslim man or woman observe hijab by covering themselves up by niqaab or burkha in the case of a muslim woman and lowering his gaze or dressing modestly in the case of a muslim man, does it matter whether the people around them are muslims or nonmuslims. does a muslim man need to lower his gaze when the woman is a nonmuslim or does it matter how she is dressed, or does it depend on whether she is practicing hijab in full according to islam as well?

ps: please stay on topic and please talk only in terms of islam. there are no highly knowledgeable representatives of other religions here so i would prefer to talk only about islamic practices and views. also please keep fight inducing comments out, thanku

I will only answer the first part of your question, that is very simple and very easy…

who you consider your enemy? in general, someone who does not want to give you what you deserve, right?
Islam says ALLAH :swt: is THE ONLY GOD, and there is no one to share his divine right to RULE the world and pass orders… anyone who is a Mushrik (polytheists) or Kaafir (non-believer) is denying this right of ALLAH the All Mighty, and not giving HIM what he deserves, hence is HIS enemy.

[Nisha25]

Re: Clarification needed on a couple things concerning Islam

^ i very much believe in Allah, i just see that God can be referred to by all these different names. Even Allah has 99 names I just see it as adding more names to the list. i would convert right this second but just b/c i see nonmuslims as human beings that are good hearted and have done so much good in this world and i refuse to see nonmuslims as they are referred to in certain verses, i shall forever remain a nonmuslim.

[Niksik]

Re: Clarification needed on a couple things concerning Islam

Nisha, it's not aboout Allah having 99 names. It is still one Allah that has several names.

Take Hinduism for example, where I believe, and please correct me if I am wrong, there is Brahma, the supreme god, or Vishnu. Then there are Shiv, and many others who are all significant, but are not one and the same sharing different names. They are in fact different entities, all responsible for different things.

In Islam, the basic fundamental belief is that of the oneness of Allah...tawheed.

It is wrong of any muslim to insult anybody from any other religion as our Prophet never preached that. It is unfortunately our human shortcoming where we so openely pass judgement on others. Only Allah knows who's heart is for him and what we are thinking. Take this as a fault of the human being, not of Islam. As far as the reference is concerned, the purpose is to help those who have accepted tawheed maintain and establish their faith, and for those people who may not have accepted that, it is a reminder that look, look at all the signs around you, how can you find strength in something that has been built by your own hands---this in is reference to the many gods that were being worshipped in Arabia during the time the Qur'an was revealed.

[Nisha25]

Re: Clarification needed on a couple things concerning Islam

niksik,i don't want to talk about hinduism please, you and i have not mastered other religions including hinduism so i would prefer not to bring up other religions here unless there was a hinduism or Christianity scholar present here, by talking without knowledge on hinduism or any other religion, i feel like we're disrespecting those other religion which is something i will not allow.

that's all i ask and because here on GS there are so many muslims that have an immense knowledge on islam, i would prefer to only talk in terms of islam, if that's ok without disrespecting the religion.

[Niksik]

Re: Clarification needed on a couple things concerning Islam

Fair enough. I don't want to pretend I understand everything about any other religion, or even mine. And there aren't too many people here who have immense knowlege on Islam either, really. We all just like to discuss.

I understand very well where you're coming from when you express you concern over the interpretation of what non muslims are referred to. But what do you have to say about my 2nd paragraph?

[FairyTale]

Re: Clarification needed on a couple things concerning Islam

@Niksik

Hijab is a protection for the woman...protection from temptations of men, as well as temptation that attack every woman to look good. Modesty is a great virtue that protects the woman from getting involved in undesirable situations, so observing hijab is supposed to prevent off the possibilities of crossing the boundaries.

This is not to say that a muslim woman shouldn't wear pretty clothes or look good..but avoid doing so for someone who is a na-mehram.

And you know the philosophy that oh we dress such and such way for ourselves not for others doesn't really work because let's say I wear a revealing outfit and go out for "myself" there's a greater chance of being "noticed" by others so even a passive interaction can turn out to be negative. I think that's where this comes from.

@Nisha25

Niksik, ok i see what your saying and i have nothing against practicing hijab but i think i'm trying to relate it to this bigger idea of temptations and to understand it for my own self.....

temptations are all around us. do we cover up all those temptations as if they are not there so we don't get tempted or tempt others?

is it the fault of the temptation or is it our own fault that we aren't working on that self control as human beings?

like the general thinking behind it is if porn tempts us, it's the fault of the internet, take away internet access, is that the right way of approaching this issue?

if somebody is using the internet to bully others, it's the fault of internet and the social networking sites that all these sinful things are done or do we punish/teach the individuals responsible for doing horrible things to see their faults and be more responsible and better human beings. it isn't the fault of the person being bullied is it?

actually see that humans can be stronger and more responsible by teaching our minds to be stronger and resist temptation? humans are capable of seeing a temptation in front of their eyes and resisting it. why aren't we given that much credit of being able to resist and learn that self control.

why is it many times the really religious people that do things like child molestation or sexual abuse/rape if they've been following these verses every day of their lives(regardless of religion).

One my sisters, has a broader body structure compared to we other sisters who are more on the slimmer side. Plus this sis of mine is not as fair as we are but she has kinda wheatish complexion, not dark though. So this sis got married to a very nice looking guy. my BIL very soon after marriage, started to tell her that she doesnt look good as other women do. she is not slim, she doesnt dress up the way other women do etc etc. lots of things like that. Comparing her to other women he would see here n there. My sis felt really insulted, bad and shared it with me. I felt for my sis.

On one fine weekend morning, I took shower, dressed up in a simple cotton dress, gave lil touch of make up to my face, left the home as i wanted to go the bank. I was on foot as bank was just on walking distance. On the way I saw a man, mature man, walking few steps ahead of me, looked back once for something and then kept looking back at me again n again. It was not something new for me or happening to me for the first time so I knew what he was up to. While I was getting irritated of his behavior, Suddenly a thought strike me. I thought what if this man goes to his wife and tells her , that she doesnt maintain herself as other women (e.g. ME, someone who had seen that day and liked) do. What if this cause a fight between husband and wife? What if there was my sis in his wife's place? What if I have caused many fights like this between husbands and wives?

This thought made me think abt why hijaab is important for women. I understood it from my persnol experience. I learnt it coz my sister was going thru something she didnt deserve at all.

You cannot tell the other person to lower his gaze, you cannot control whats going on in his mind, but at least you have control on yourself. You can possibly stop providing that sight of you to those men who enjoy seeing it and which ultimately can result in situations like my sis was in to and I am sure my sisters face it. I or other women may not be at 100% responsible for such situations, but we do have our share, which can be withdrawn if we try.

[FairyTale]

Re: Clarification needed on a couple things concerning Islam

niksik,i don't want to talk about hinduism please, you and i have not mastered other religions including hinduism so i would prefer not to bring up other religions here unless there was a hinduism or Christianity scholar present here, by talking without knowledge on hinduism or any other religion, i feel like we're disrespecting those other religion which is something i will not allow.

that's all i ask and because here on GS there are so many muslims that have an immense knowledge on islam, i would prefer to only talk in terms of islam, if that's ok without disrespecting the religion.

Sorry but I dont see Niksik has disrespected Hinduism in her post. These are the very basic things you get to know about any religion when you are living among ppl from different cultures and religions. We all do have basic knowledge about Christianity, Hindusim etc. What niksik stated is a very accurate answer to your question. Reffering to one God with different names (which describes His different characterstics actually) is different than reffereing to so many gods with so many names. There is no disrespect intended if Hinduism example is quoted. Plus after all your questions are also in regards to muslim vs non-muslims.

[NomiCA]

Re: Clarification needed on a couple things concerning Islam

@FairyTale

One my sisters, has a broader body structure compared to we other sisters who are more on the slimmer side. Plus this sis of mine is not as fair as we are but she has kinda wheatish complexion, not dark though. So this sis got married to a very nice looking guy. my BIL very soon after marriage, started to tell her that she doesnt look good as other women do. she is not slim, she doesnt dress up the way other women do etc etc. lots of things like that. Comparing her to other women he would see here n there. My sis felt really insulted, bad and shared it with me. I felt for my sis. On one fine weekend morning, I took shower, dressed up in a simple cotton dress, gave lil touch of make up to my face, left the home as i wanted to go the bank. I was on foot as bank was just on walking distance. On the way I saw a man, mature man, walking few steps ahead of me, looked back once for something and then kept looking back at me again n again. It was not something new for me or happening to me for the first time so I knew what he was up to. While I was getting irritated of his behavior, Suddenly a thought strike me. I thought what if this man goes to his wife and tells her , that she doesnt maintain herself as other women (e.g. ME, someone who had seen that day and liked) do. What if this cause a fight between husband and wife? What if there was my sis in his wife’s place? What if I have caused many fights like this between husbands and wives? This thought made me think abt why hijaab is important for women. I understood it from my persnol experience. I learnt it coz my sister was going thru something she didnt deserve at all. You cannot tell the other person to lower his gaze, you cannot control whats going on in his mind, but at least you have control on yourself. You can possibly stop providing that sight of you to those men who enjoy seeing it and which ultimately can result in situations like my sis was in to and I am sure my sisters face it. I or other women may not be at 100% responsible for such situations, but we do have our share, which can be withdrawn if we try.

so nicely written :k:

[FairyTale]

Re: Clarification needed on a couple things concerning Islam

Nisha, I dont know if you are muslim, but FYI, Quran was not written in one day. The verses were revealed upon Prophet Mohammed PBUH time to time as guidence to him and his followers. It took more than 22yrs for the Quran revelations to complete. Every verse has a background to it. In short meaning to say, if you see any verse stating nonmuslims are your enemy or Allah's enemy, there must be a back-up incident behind it. Thats where we need Tafseer (commentry, detailed explanation).

Plus as so many already stated that non-muslims will be rewarded for what good they had done in this world. Allah is just of all and He knows the best of all. Quran Surah No. 5, verse 32, clearly states:

"On that account We ordained for the Children of Isra`il that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole **humanity: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the whole **humanity. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear (guidance), yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (5:32) "

Note that word HUMANITY is used here and not MUSLIM only.

[Aceones]

Re: Clarification needed on a couple things concerning Islam

^ i very much believe in Allah, i just see that God can be referred to by all these different names. Even Allah has 99 names I just see it as adding more names to the list. i would convert right this second but just b/c i see nonmuslims as human beings that are good hearted and have done so much good in this world and i refuse to see nonmuslims as they are referred to in certain verses, i shall forever remain a nonmuslim.

Its not about believing in ALLAH. its about believing ONLY in ALLAH subhanahu wa ta'ala, and its about following ONLY HIS command, that's what is needed. like in Surah-e-Fateha we say (translation) "hum TERI HEE ibadat karay hain" we dont say "hum TERI BHEE ibadat kartay hain", there is big difference, very huge.

as for non-muslims doing good, people have already stated that they will get reward of their good deeds in this world, but those good deeds without Imaan, are not going to earn them any good in hereafter... ALLAH ta'la while telling the purpose of creation of us humans, says in Quran:
"وماخلقت الجن والانس الا ليعبدون" --> I did not create the jinns and the humans except to worship Me alone (Surah Zariyaat-51, Verse 56). so the basic and very fundamental requirement is to worship HIM, and the first step to worship is to accept HIM the all mighty, as HE is, and that is ALONE. HE does not share his powers with anyone... and that is exactly what "basic" definition of tawheed is. Without this, no matter how much good hearted we are, its not going to help.

[QUOTE]
Even Allah has 99 names I just see it as adding more names to the list
[/QUOTE]

no its not adding more names to the list, its like delegating those qualities to someone other than HIM, to someone who does not deserve that, and the term we use for it is "shirk"

as for the bold part... i hope its not true, but this attitude does not show the willingness to learn, it shows a determination to reject

[Nisha25]

Re: Clarification needed on a couple things concerning Islam

^i thought what i was doing was questioning and clarifying and not having blind faith or accepting everything that i learn about in terms of any issue.

it's difficult for me to see another human being like how those verses see it or show it and just b/c they have different views than me. i can't see God as being so selfish, "do as i say or burn in hell".

threats of hell won't work either, believe me i've tried using that as a way of accepting all those verses about nonmuslims in my mind, it didn't work......

anyways, i just wanted to ask whether the "nonmuslims are enemies of allah" interpretation was correct or not, that was my only goal with this thread.

[Nisha25]

Re: Clarification needed on a couple things concerning Islam

Sorry but I dont see Niksik has disrespected Hinduism in her post. These are the very basic things you get to know about any religion when you are living among ppl from different cultures and religions. We all do have basic knowledge about Christianity, Hindusim etc. What niksik stated is a very accurate answer to your question. Reffering to one God with different names (which describes His different characterstics actually) is different than reffereing to so many gods with so many names. There is no disrespect intended if Hinduism example is quoted. Plus after all your questions are also in regards to muslim vs non-muslims.

when you've done your phd in hinduism then we'll talk about hinduism and i can ask you questions about it.

i didn't say that niksik was disrespecting any religion, i just would rather not discuss religions that we don't have an immense amount of knowledge on. I just want to focus on islam if that's ok. why do other religions need to be brought up? wanting to have a hinduism scholar or a christianity scholar present when talking about those respective religions isn't too much to ask is it?

that's what zakir naik has done on his website, and most of what he has there about other religions is mostly all wrong according to christians, jews and hindus that know their religion inside and out. that's what i see as wrong, misguiding or taking verses from those holy books out of context. I would never listen to what a christian,jew, hindu would have to say about islam b/c those people would have half knowledge on islam unless they have a phd in islamic studies or world religions. i would just like to stay away from all that.

people here are knowledgeable on islam so let's talk only islam please

[Nisha25]

Re: Clarification needed on a couple things concerning Islam

One my sisters, has a broader body structure compared to we other sisters who are more on the slimmer side. Plus this sis of mine is not as fair as we are but she has kinda wheatish complexion, not dark though. So this sis got married to a very nice looking guy. my BIL very soon after marriage, started to tell her that she doesnt look good as other women do. she is not slim, she doesnt dress up the way other women do etc etc. lots of things like that. Comparing her to other women he would see here n there. My sis felt really insulted, bad and shared it with me. I felt for my sis.

On one fine weekend morning, I took shower, dressed up in a simple cotton dress, gave lil touch of make up to my face, left the home as i wanted to go the bank. I was on foot as bank was just on walking distance. On the way I saw a man, mature man, walking few steps ahead of me, looked back once for something and then kept looking back at me again n again. It was not something new for me or happening to me for the first time so I knew what he was up to. While I was getting irritated of his behavior, Suddenly a thought strike me. I thought what if this man goes to his wife and tells her , that she doesnt maintain herself as other women (e.g. ME, someone who had seen that day and liked) do. What if this cause a fight between husband and wife? What if there was my sis in his wife's place? What if I have caused many fights like this between husbands and wives?

This thought made me think abt why hijaab is important for women. I understood it from my persnol experience. I learnt it coz my sister was going thru something she didnt deserve at all.

You cannot tell the other person to lower his gaze, you cannot control whats going on in his mind, but at least you have control on yourself. You can possibly stop providing that sight of you to those men who enjoy seeing it and which ultimately can result in situations like my sis was in to and I am sure my sisters face it. I or other women may not be at 100% responsible for such situations, but we do have our share, which can be withdrawn if we try.

i see why hijab is used. thanks for the explanation and again i have nothing against using it.

but for me i think what i'm saying is we have temptations all around us right? chocolate, fattening foods, nice shiny expensive gadgets, so many other temptations.....is it the fault of the temptation? do we blame the chocolate or do we blame ourselves for succumbing to temptation or not having self control and then dealing with the consequences of not having self control. why can't a man actually put the effort into having the self control and why has God made it seem like a man or a woman is incapable of it or is only capable of lowering their gaze?

i hope you'll get a chance to read what i've written here:

@Nisha25

Niksik, ok i see what you're saying and i have nothing against practicing hijab but i think i'm trying to relate it to this bigger idea of temptations and to understand it for my own self as hijab is also a way of covering up the temptation.....

temptations are all around us. do we cover up all those temptations as if they are not there so we don't get tempted or tempt others?

is it the fault of the temptation or is it our own fault that we aren't working on that self control as human beings?

like the general thinking behind it is if porn tempts us, it's the fault of the internet, take away internet access, is that the right way of approaching this issue?

if somebody is using the internet to bully others, it's the fault of internet and the social networking sites that all these sinful things are done or do we punish/teach the individuals responsible for doing horrible things to see their faults and be more responsible and better human beings. it isn't the fault of the person being bullied is it?

actually see that humans can be stronger and more responsible by teaching our minds to be stronger and resist temptation? humans are capable of seeing a temptation in front of their eyes and resisting it. why aren't we given that much credit of being able to resist and learn that self control.

why is it many times the really religious people that do things like child molestation or sexual abuse/rape if they've been following these verses every day of their lives(regardless of religion).

i need to respond to what niksik and a couple other people have said too, i'll do that when i get more time. thanks for the clarifications