City of 9 Gates is Makkah.

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Ibrahim says; Greetings of Peace to one and all,

Dear Brethren.

The hindu scriptures refers to a city with 9 gates and 8 circuits where God is embodied within (The House of God) and researchers had identified this as the Ka’abah in Makkah

And Brahma was actually Prophet Ibrahim (pbuh) . The reason for the change in name is similar to Christians converting Prophet Eesa (pbuh) into Jesus Christ.

Lets look at these texts in the Veda ( sruti or timeless and beyond corruption scripts in Hinduism)

** Atharva Veda X, 2, 28: [On Ka’bah]

Whether it is built high, its walls are in a straight line or not, but God is seen in every corner of it. He who knows the House of God, knows it because God is remembered there. **

The Ka’bah is not exactly cubical and its sides are not of the same length. The Holy Sanctuary (Haram) of which Ka’abah is at the center remains open day and night throughout the year and it is always filled with people praying to Allah (the One True God). Muslims face toward it during prayer forming circle in the Haram (Holy House) and the circle extends out in this manner throughout the planet Earth.

**Atharva Veda X, 2, 31:[On Holy Sanctuary (House) and Ka’bah]

This abode of the angels has eight circuits and nine gates. It is unconquerable, there is eternal life in it and it is resplendent with Divine light. **

The holy sanctuary (Haram) of which Ka’bah is at the center remains open day and night throughout the year and it is always filled with people praying and supplicating to Allah (the One True God). It has remained unconquerable. Abraha Al-Ashram, the Abbysinian viceroy of Yemen, tried to demolish it in 570 CE with a strong army and hordes of elephants but was prevented from entering the city (Holy precinct). The people of Makkah had decided not to defend the Ka’bah, fled the city and took refuge in nearby hills overlooking Ka’bah. By Allah’s Command, the ‘Abaabeel’ (flying creatures, birds) pelted stones at Abraha’s army and decimated it, leaving them like green crops devoured by cattle. This incident is described in the Surah (chapter) 105 of the Qur’an. The year 570 CE is popularly known by the Arabs as ‘The year of the Elephant,’ and Prophet Muhammad was born in that year.
Dr. Vidyarthi points out the following facts. The House of God has nine gates - Baab-e-Ibrahim (Abraham) , Baab-al-Wedaa, Baab-as-Safa, Baab-e-Ali, Baab-e-Abbas, Baab-un-Nabi, Baab-as-Salaam, Baab-az-Ziyarat, and Baab-e-Haram. Further, the eight circuits are the natural lines enclosing the areas between the surrounding hills, the names of which are: Jabal-e-Khaleej, Jabal-e-Qaiqaon, Jabal-e-Hindi, Jabal-e-Laalaa, Jabal-e-Keda, Jabal-e-Abu Hadidah, Jabal-e-Abi Qabees, and Jabal-e-Umar.

**Atharva Veda X, 2, 33: [On Abraham and more on Holy Sanctuary and Ka’bah]

Brahma (Abraham) stayed in this abode which is illumined by heavenly light and covered with Divine blessings. It is the place that gives (spiritual) life to the people and is unconquerable. **

The Ka’bah was built by Prophets Abraham and Ismail. It has remained unconquerable as explained in the preceding verse. Many verses of the Holy Qur’an and of the Old Testament in the Bible describe the divine blessings in this Holy house.

In addition to texts found in the veda, the under mentioned texts found in the SVETASVATARA UPANISHAD goes one step further to establish the Ka’bah as the house of God ( as it was known in the past)

chapter 3:

  1. Separate from all the senses, yet reflecting the qualities of all the senses, ** it is the lord and ruler of all, it is the great refuge of all. **

  2. The embodied spirit within the town with nine gates, the bird, flutters outwards, ** the ruler of the whole world, of all that rests and of all that moves. **

  3. ** Grasping without hands, hasting without feet, he sees without eyes, he hears without ears. He knows what can be known, but no one knows him; they call him the first, the great person . **

For further reference visit http://www.hinducentral.com/Hinducentral/Hindu%20Scriptures/Upanishads/SVETASVATARA%20UPANISHAD.htm

hence the City called ** Navadvaare Pure ** (= in the place where there are nine gates ), has been clearly identified as the Ka’bah in Makkah.

Now the question is why would the hindu scriptures have such mention of the Ka’bah if they were actually considered an eastern religion having no relation with Islam?

For a full treatment of some hindu scriptures and their relation to Islam kindly visit http://www.islam-mauritius.org/hindunislam.htm"

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http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

very hi informative…
thanx 4 sharing…
God bless u…

DerVaisH

muhabatein theen kabhi apne dermian kitni…
bicha gaye hai anna hum mein doorian kitni…
abhi to toota hai dil hi teri judai mein…
girein gi hum pe abhi aur bijlian kitni…

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[quote]
Originally posted by kumarakn:
**** So, Ibrahim is Hindu? An that Kaabah is a Hindu place? Interesting!! **

[This message has been edited by kumarakn (edited August 02, 2001).]**
[/quote]

probably yes, in the sense that all Hindus followed Ibrahim (AS) and then rebelled / resorted back to idol-worshipping.

are you saying "hinducentral.com" is a site made by Muslims?

We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

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[quote]
Originally posted by Infoman:
I always knew mohammed was a hindu. I guess islam is just another off-shoot of hinduism, like jain and buddhism.
[/quote]

actually you are in reverse gear again.
Again, almost all religions (including Hinduism) came from one basic religion... Islam. All hindus were Muslims, but of course, following satan/devil won't keep you intact with religion, so we have Hindus making up their religion.

We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

[This message has been edited by Changez_like (edited August 03, 2001).]

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[quote]
Originally posted by Changez_like:
** actually you are in reverse gear again.
Again, almost all religions (including Hinduism) came from one basic religion... Islam. All hindus were Muslims, but of course, following satan/devil won't keep you intact with religion, so we have Hindus making up their religion.

**
[/quote]

That's what I am saying. All religions came from hinduism. Kind of convenient for the "johnny come lately" to claim that they were here the whole time. Quite laughable actually!

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[quote]
Originally posted by Infoman:
**
That's what I am saying. All religions came from hinduism. Kind of convenient for the "johnny come lately" to claim that they were here the whole time. Quite laughable actually!**
[/quote]

yeah, especially when you think that Islam is only 1400 years old and hinduism is 5000 years old (they keep changing dates, I don't know why) while in fact Islam came much before that. Islam head more than 100,000 prophets, and each prophet lived at least age of 40.. makes it 4,000,000 years? some of them existed at same time but the actual number is more than 100,000 too, so which number is bigger? 5000? or 4million? know some maths??

We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

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[quote]
Originally posted by Changez_like:
** yeah, especially when you think that Islam is only 1400 years old and hinduism is 5000 years old (they keep changing dates, I don't know why) while in fact Islam came much before that. Islam head more than 100,000 prophets, and each prophet lived at least age of 40.. makes it 4,000,000 years? some of them existed at same time but the actual number is more than 100,000 too, so which number is bigger? 5000? or 4million? know some maths??

**
[/quote]

Wrong again! God is eternal but religion can be bound by time. So folowers of islam only followed islam after mohammed. Anyway, all the rhetoric about islam from the begining of time seems like a convenient ploy to establish the brand. Ask the Jews and christians (people of the book) what they think of that ridiculou argument.

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Infoman, if Mohammad(saw) was a hindu Islam would have been only confined to Makkah and madina just like your hinduism is confined only in India and even though it is the oldest 'ism'(NOT religion) in this world it still has not spread to the outter corners of the world like Islam has. So just like many other ways, Islam is better much productive, easily understandable true religion, unlike Hinduism where God has to become a rat, or monkey to understand my problems, what stupid would believe that-only a hindu.

"I am not playing with a full deck!"

[This message has been edited by Abdul Basit (edited August 03, 2001).]

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[quote]
Originally posted by Infoman:
** Wrong again! God is eternal but religion can be bound by time. So folowers of islam only followed islam after mohammed. Anyway, all the rhetoric about islam from the begining of time seems like a convenient ploy to establish the brand. Ask the Jews and christians (people of the book) what they think of that ridiculou argument.

**
[/quote]

okay now I showed you that Islam is oldest religion you go astray. "Islam" didn't come 1400 years ago. Ask a Christian for a change. Ask Christian about Jews what is religion of Jews and ask if books of both religion are 'divine-revealed' or not. Ask Jews if in their religion they were told of another prophet or not, to come later (after Moses).

Jewish, Christianity and Islam are the latest 3 divine-revealed religions on earth prevailing today.

I'm not sure, but you can ask Christians about number of prophets before Jesus Christ (Essa AH), I think they were also told an approximate number of prophets before Jesus (Essa AH).

We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

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Ibrahim very impressive, indeed.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

As far as, non-belivers are concerned well what can we do about them, as they cursed by Allah! " and we have closed their hearts …"
These people have denied all the prophets so, why they will listen to you and me ???

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Infoman

What baffles me, is that you still have not confirmed your Faith to all Guppies, so that at least we know where you are coming from.

Please don't be shy or ashamed about your Faith. We are very understanding!

Secondly and more seriously, just to rebut your futile argument about the following of Islam only commenced after Mohammed PBUH.

Here is the evidence confirming that you are wrong!:

003.067 Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to Allah’s (Which is Islam), and he joined not gods with Allah.

Just in case you do not know, but the literal meaning of Islam is 'submission to the will of Allah'.

If you are going to argue that in general terms Islam was only followed after Mohammed PBUH, then please also answer the following:

003.019 The Religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His Will): Nor did the People of the Book dissent therefrom except through envy of each other, after knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account.

Do you know who the People of the Book are?

027.044 She was asked to enter the lofty Palace: but when she saw it, she thought it was a lake of water, and she (tucked up her skirts), uncovering her legs. He said:

"This is but a palace paved smooth with slabs of glass." She said: "O my Lord! I have indeed wronged my soul: I do (now) submit (in Islam), with Solomon, to the Lord of the Worlds."

When were Sheba and Solomon born? Within the last 1400 years or so!

002.132 And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam."

002.133 Were ye witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold, he said to his sons: "What will ye worship after me?" They said: "We shall worship Thy Allah and the Allah of thy fathers, of Abraham, Isma’il and Isaac,- the one (True) Allah: To Him we bow (in Islam)."

When were Jacob and his sons born?

The above are only a small example, but if you want, we can go back to Adam and Noah.

The fact is that Islam has been here with us since the beginning of Creation, whether you like it or not!

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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by SSultan:
**Ibrahim very impressive, indeed.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

As far as, non-belivers are concerned well what can we do about them, as they cursed by Allah! " and we have closed their hearts …"

Ibrahim says: Brother Allah 9swt) did not curse them, they by their very deed of denials earned what they deserve . This is like If you chose to be laborer you can only get a laborer’s pay and If you chose to be a doctor than you will receive what is due .

Hence those who became unbelievers earned what they deserve by their own works. Even when one is born into unbelief he/she still has a chance to become a believer that is why we are given life in the first place.

SSultan:These people have denied all the prophets so, why they will listen to you and me ???

Ibrahim says; It is not your or my function to convert them or anyone for that matter, our function is to reveal the TRUTH and stand as witnesses for the TRUTH by such an action you have become witnesses for Allah (swt) against the unbelievers in the hereafter

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most amusing. the vedas are puzzles, which closed-hearted hindus fail to decode, and hence will pay for it by frying in hell.

anyways, the oldest of the vedas is the Rig Veda, which was composed at around 1500 BC. the Rig Veda is quite elaborate with more than a thousand hymns. this ancient root of hinduism is dominated by hymns praising aryan gods. just like it's sister religion Zoroastrianism's holy book, the Iranian Avesta, the Rig Veda mentions thirty-three gods. interestingly, the mention of the Kaabah is not from this Veda.

then came the Sama Veda at around 10th cent BC. the Sama Veda contains the melodies or music for the chants used from the Rig Veda for the sacrifices. once again, the description of the Kaabah hasnt shown up yet.

after this came the Yajur Veda, which is a description of rituals and sacred ceremonies.

then last of all came the Atharva Veda, which describes hindu rituals - extremely rich in sacrifices, symbolisms, songs, magical spells - the things that semitic religions love to hate. the description of the Kaabah is chooses to surface in this kufr mess!

cheers,
queer

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[quote]
Originally posted by queer:

most amusing. the vedas are puzzles,
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: Greetings of peace to one and all

O Lord not another load of nonsense. I wonder when Hindus will learn about their scriptures what the knowledgeable hindus already know about it!

Queer dear, I do not no whether to cry or laugh , when I read your response but as usual you seem to say what ever that comes to your head . And when I call a spade a spade you say I am calling you names.

Now whatever you say above is utter nonsense, so let me just use the encyclopedia to establish that you talk nonsense. .

Kindly search for vyasa in the Britannica encyclopedia, and if disagree, try and correct them.

[quote]
Vyasa: (Sanskrit: "Arranger," or "Compiler"), also called KRSNA DVAIPAYANA, or ** VEDAVYASA** (fl. 1500 BC?), legendary Indian sage who is traditionally credited with composing or compiling the Mahabharata, a collection of legendary and didactic poetry worked around a central heroic narrative.
According to legend, Vyasa was the son of the ascetic Parashara and the Dasa princess Satyavati and ** grew up in forests living with hermits who taught him the Vedas.**

Thereafter he lived in the forests near the banks of the river Sarasvati, becoming a teacher and a priest, fathering a son and disciple, Shuka, and gathering a large group of disciples. Late in life, living in caves in the Himalayas,** he is said to have divided the Vedas, ** composed Puranas, and, in a period of two and one-half years, composed his great poetic work, the Mahabharata, ** supposedly dictating it to his scribe, Ganesha, the elephant god. **

Copyright 1994-1998 Encyclopaedia Britannica
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: ** The four Vedas are considered sruti , which Literally means "that which is heard".** The term refers to those Sanskrit writings which are ** believed to be of divine composition, having been told by Brahma to certain great sages.** The Vedas, which include the Mantras, Brahmanas, Aranyakas, and Upanishads are examples of sruti. The other category of Sanskrit works are the smritis, or "what is remembered". These writings are believed to be human compositions. All texts in Hinduism are either smriti or shruti

After Veda Vyasa divided the Vedas into four books (Rg, Yajur, Sama and Atharva), his disciples further divided them into 1,130 divisions.

This is stated in the Kurma Purana (52.19-20):

eka-vimsati-bhedena rg-vedam krtavan pura
sakhanam satenaiva yajur-vedam athakarot
sama-vedam sahasrena sakhanam prabibheda sah
atharvanam atho vedam bibedha navakena tu

'Previously the Rg Veda was divided into 21 sections, the Yajur Veda into 100 sections, the Sama Veda into 1,000 sections and the Atharva Veda into 9 divisions.'

Each division has 4 minor divisions, namely the Samhitas, Brahmanas, Aranyakas and Upanisads. Thus altogether the 4 Vedas contain 1,130 Samhitas, 1,130 Brahmanas, 1,130 Aranyakas, and 1,130 Upanisads. This makes a total of 4,520 divisions.
** At present, most of these texts have disappeared due to the influence of time. We can only find 11 Samhitas, 18 Brahmanas, 7 Aranyakas and 220 Upanisads which constitutes a mere 6% of the entire Vedic canon! **

  1. The ** Rig Veda is the oldest of the four Vedas** and presents the key wisdom of the ancient Rishis. It reflects the power of the Divine Word or universal mantra. It is the most important Vedic text that ** all the others derive from or are based upon.**

  2. The Yajur Veda presents the Vedic ritual, which inwardly is a practice of Yoga involving speech, breath and mind. About a third of it are mantras from the Rig Veda.

  3. The Sama Veda is the Veda of music and song showing the ecstasy of Self-realization. It consists entirely of Rig Veda mantras set to a different and more complex chant.

  4. The Atharva Veda provides additional special mantric insights for particular issues including healing. ** It contains many mantras from both Rig and Yajur Vedas, ** as well as many of its own.
    Queer dear, I suggest you get help and when you are able to accept the facts as facts, maybe than I would entertain you, failing which it would be useless to entertain you, as most Hindus have a way of spinning till kingdom come and can be dishonest even when the irrefutable evidence has been presented to them.

BTW kindly find out why, the Atharva Veda claims Brahma built the Ka'bah (house of God), which was true as Prophet Ibrahim (pbuh) indeed built the Ka'bah.

Thus establishing the fact that the names have been changed just like Christians and Jews who have changed the names in the scripture s to market their own versions.

Hope that helps

regards
Ibrahim

** Never contend with man who has nothing to lose **

[This message has been edited by Ibrahim (edited June 15, 2002).]