CIA slammed for Iraq intelligence

I am sure the apologists will be saying “so what” we “liberated” the people of Iraq, blah, blah and blah.

CIA slammed for Iraq intelligence](BBC NEWS | Americas | CIA slated over Iraq intelligence)

US senators have severely criticised the country’s intelligence agencies, in particular the CIA, for the quality of their pre-war information on Iraq.
In a scathing report, the Senate Intelligence Committee says the CIA overstated the threat posed by Iraq.

As a result, the US and its allies went to war based on “flawed” information.

However, the report concluded there was no evidence the Bush administration had tried to coerce or put pressure on officials to adapt their findings.

Global failure

Most of the key judgements about Iraq’s WMD programmes “were either overstated or were not supported by the raw intelligence reporting,” said the committee’s chairman, Republican Senator Pat Roberts.

** SENATE REPORT: KEY POINTS
Assumptions about Iraq wrong, not supported by evidence
Analysts failed to say when intelligence was uncertain
Managers failed to question analysts’ assumptions
CIA had no human sources in Iraq since 1998
CIA withheld intelligence from other agencies
The intelligence community suffered a “collective group-think”, which led analysts to presume that Iraq had active and growing weapons of mass destruction (WMD) programmes and to interpret ambiguous evidence as conclusive, Senator Roberts said. **

But the failings were not America’s alone.

“It is clear that this group-think also extended to our allies, and to the United Nations, and several other nations as well, all of whom did believe that Saddam Hussein had active WMD programmes. This was a global intelligence failure,” he said.

The report said there was no evidence that analysts came under pressure from the White House to deliver certain findings, although some Democrats dissented from this conclusion.

The issue of whether the Bush administration exaggerated the case for war in Iraq is being investigated separately in a report due to be released after the presidential election on 2 November.

** Mistakes leading up to the war in Iraq rank among the most devastating losses and intelligence failures in the history of the nation **

Jay Rockefeller
Vice Chairman

The Democrat vice-chairman of the committee, Senator Jay Rockefeller, stressed his party’s regret that the whole matter had not been addressed in one inquiry.

“There is simply no question that mistakes leading up to the war in Iraq rank among the most devastating losses and intelligence failures in the history of the nation,” he said.

“We in Congress would not have authorised that war. We would not have authorised that war with 75 votes if we knew what we know now.”

Mr Bush said the report was “useful” in pointing out how the intelligence community failed.

“We need to know. I want to know. I want to know how to make the agencies better,” he said during campaigning in Pennsylvania.

‘Slam dunk’

The report could have implications for Lord Butler’s UK report, to be published in a few days’ time, increasing pressure for a strong examination of what happened in British intelligence.

CIA director George Tenet, who steps down on Sunday, was criticised for not personally checking President Bush’s 2003 State of the Union address.

This contained the allegation - which first surfaced in a UK report and since discredited - that Iraq had been trying to buy uranium from Niger.

On Thursday, Mr Tenet told employees that the American people would judge where intelligence has done well and where the CIA has fallen short.

Right action for wrong reasons.. chaltahai!!

objective of terrorists: kill americans
outcome of war: dead americans

wrong action, right outcome, chaltahai!!

Hmmm.. i don't think the CIA will take it lying down.. unless they 'approved' this to demand increased funding so next time they get it right!

We were lied to from beginning to end. Yet everyone seems to be okay with it. Even Orwell would be turning in his grave.

Makes me sick how no one seems to be bothered they killed innocent muslims for no reasone i hope they get wots comin to em

With so much criticism placed right on Tenent's doorstep by the report and also by David Kay (in an interview recently), the man did the right thing be resigning last month. He had become a walking-talking liability.

Though my feeling is that CIA is being made the scape goat in this mess. They were doing nothing but following orders. I am darn sure they (the CIA) was instructed to find (conjure) intelligence to back up attacking Iraq and those who disagreed were pooh-poo'd by the higher ups.

"I am sure the apologists will be saying "so what" we "liberated" the people of Iraq, blah, blah and blah."

It was a mistake to focus on WMD. Clinton called for Regime change.

Anybody want to debate that Saddam was arguably a genocidal killer of hundreds of thousands of Muslims? Or is this OK?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
Anybody want to debate that Saddam was arguably a genocidal killer of hundreds of thousands of Muslims? Or is this OK?
[/QUOTE]
If being a genocidal killer is the only criteria of being taken out by 130,000 US soldiers, then atleast the US government could be more honest about it before the war. They didn't had to 'invent' (literally) non-existent reasons to attack Iraq. You could have presented that argument and see if the world buys it. Heck, leave the world, just have the US Congress buy it.

All the evidence that is coming out now suggests that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 nor did he had any WMD's. If you recall, all of Bush's pre-war speeches were rhetorical on one word "disarm". That has now been proven to be a big false. Admit it.

Now we have members of the US Congress who have come up and said that if they had been told the truth (without embellishing with false claims of WMD) they would not have approved the war on Iraq. So where is the legal justification of war, anymore? Its all fiction, according to US' own Congressional investigations.

“If being a genocidal killer is the only criteria…”

You can stop right there, case made.

Or, do we not care about Genocide. A virtual seige was laid to this guy and he still would not step down. Human Rights watch tried for years to get indictments, but were blocked by the Russians, the Chinese, and the French because of their business interests. Hundreds of boxes of documents were captured after the 1991 Gulf War, proving beyond a doubt that Saddams’ regime was guilty of wide scale organized killing, ethnic cleansing, and genocide. They were all Muslims, or don’t they count?

Never mind.

I blame Bush, but more I blame Colin Powell. I believe he felt that the WMD was the only issue on which the UN would unify, and the only issue on which a coalition could be built. The case should have been built on Genocide.

I stand by this:

"Several thousand Kurdish villages were destroyed, forcing residents to live in appalling camps. In at least 40 cases, Iraqi forces under Saddam’s cousin, Ali Hassan al-Majid, used chemical weapons to kill and chase Kurds from their villages. Then, during the Anfal campaign from February to September 1988, Iraqi troops swept through the highlands of Iraqi Kurdistan rounding up everyone who remained in government-declared “prohibited zones.” Some 100,000 Kurds, mostly men and boys, were trucked to remote sites and executed. Only seven are known to have escaped.

The full scope of the Anfal horror became known only after Saddam’s defeat in the Gulf War. The Iraqi military’s withdrawal from the region in October 1991 after the imposition of a no-fly zone made it feasible for the first time in years for outsiders to reach the area.

Human Rights Watch investigators took advantage of this opening to enter northern Iraq and document Saddam’s crimes. Some 350 witnesses and survivors were interviewed. Mass graves were exhumed. And Kurdish rebels were convinced to hand over some 18 tons of documents that they had seized during the brief post-war uprising from Iraqi police stations. These documents were airlifted to Washington, where Human Rights Watch researchers poured through this treasure trove of information about the inner workings of a ruthless regime.

With this extraordinarily detailed evidence of genocide, Human Rights Watch launched a campaign to bring Saddam to justice. At the time the U.N. Security Council was creating special tribunals for Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia, but there was no consensus for similar action on Iraq. France and Russia, each with extensive business interests in Iraq, threatened to wield their veto. China, worried about analogies to its treatment of Tibetans, was disinclined to support an International Criminal Tribunal for Iraq. With no International Criminal Court then in the works, and the Pinochet option of exercising universal jurisdiction in national courts not yet widely recognized, the prospect of criminal prosecution was remote."
http://www.hrw.org/editorials/2002/iraq_032202.htm

All we are saying is that one should be honest about the reasons for going to war. And preferably be honest about it BEFORE going to war and not as a result of an investigation afterwards. It should not be like firing a bunch of stuff, hoping something would stick.

I am not the one whose permission US government needs to go to war. Apparently even UN is not the one (cz it never gave any). However, when US Congressmen say that they wouldn't approve the war either just because the man was a maniacal murderer, then you need to seriously re-think your going-to-war rationale.

Re: CIA slammed for Iraq intelligence

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mawarid: *
I am sure the apologists will be saying "so what" we "liberated" the people of Iraq, blah, blah and blah.

[/QUOTE]

To the contrary, I have maintained pretty consistently that my biggest concern was finding out whether and why our intelligence services made such a poor assessment of the situation in Iraq. The intelligence failure was huge and has been and will continue to be very costly in terms of American lives and American credilbility now and in the future. As bad, I think the intelligence failure will put a death sword into the heart of what I believe to be a good and sound policy in the war against terror: i.e. pre-emptive self defense. The public support for actions taken in the name of that doctrine are inextricably linked to the acceptance and quality of the intelligence upon which they are based.

That said, the failure of intelligence was global in this case. It has been an absolute given in intelligence circles for at least a decade that Saddam had WMD and an active development program. Well...I guess he fooled us. Ha Ha Ha.

Saddam reaped that which he sowed and I still think we are better off for taking the action we did than we would otherwise have been. The Iraqi people are and will be better off as well for what we have done. Over time, I think that most of the world will also come to this realization.

Faisal,

I think absolutely everyone fully expected to find WMD. Sending in troops with chemical weapons suits sort of convinces me that every allied security force, intelligence service, and most politicians believed that he had weapons. Most of the intel was developed during the Clinton years, not Bush. We did not throw up all the reasons to the wall and hoped something stuck.

I agree with Myvoice that Saddam presented a future threat. 9/11 proved that you no longer need missles to deliver a deadly payload. It was only a matter of time. But I personally would not have gone to war over this and this alone. That fact that Saddam was a genocideal murderer is all that is required, and if I had my preference, that would have been the highlighted reason for war. What is disgusting is how everyone glosses over a murderer of hundreds of thousands of Muslims. Simply amazing...

Well, no one is saying that all this intelligence was "created" during Bush years. But it was acted upon during Bush years that resulted in 1,000 coalition deaths and tens and thousands of Iraqi deaths. If Clinton and other foreign powers were truly convinced that having a murderer in Baghdad is the best reason to go to war, then they could have took out Saddam much earlier. The gassing of Kurds didn't exactly happen in 2002, you know.

Having said that, its a circular argument, and mostly conjecture at this point. There are some other maniacal murderer rulers who have killed thousands (if not tens of thousands) of innocent people. Wanna list?

And last point is, that the fantastic theory of pre-emptive strikes (made famous in Tom Cruise's movie Minority Report, as well) can only be used when you have good intelligence. With US intelligence in shambles and totally lacking any credibility, atleast for the short term, you might as well stick to the conventional reasons for starting a war, for now. The one thats been followed for centuries.

BOTTOM LINE: The US was wrong (whether it knew about this all along is another matter) about their chosen pretense for war. Now it can save its blushes by putting on the saviour of humanity act but that doesn’t cut it. Saddam has been a mass murderer for the past couple of decades, but it didn’t concern the US much then.

If you do claim to be a hero, then what about Kashmir, what about Israel? Isn’t Sharon as bad or worse than Saddam? Or is that type of genocide ok? When it was CONVENIENT for them they jumped in and conquered Iraq and world can see the Iraqi’s gratitude for that :rolleyes:. They didn’t care that the UN didn’t agree. They didn’t care that their own Congress wasn’t fully won over. They wanted to fulfill their own agendas and ulterior motives and Iraq was a convenient means to an end. Nothing more nothing less. Now the very fact that their own intelligence can’t back them, well that just proves my point.

PS. Did I mention oil?

"The gassing of Kurds didn't exactly happen in 2002, you know."

Yes I know.

The full scope of the Anfal horror became known only after Saddam's defeat in the Gulf War. The Iraqi military's withdrawal from the region in October 1991 after the imposition of a no-fly zone made it feasible for the first time in years for outsiders to reach the area.

And, for most of the '90's the intelligence on Iraq was superb. When the UN was just about ready to declare Iraq "clean", Saddam's brother in law defected and the Biological programs were first discovered.

"Isn't Sharon as bad or worse than Saddam?"

Numerically not even close really!

Let's say you see your child about to be hit by a car in the street. You race out into the middle of the road, swoop him into your arms and dive safely to the curbside. You then look at him and see it's not your child, but rather your neighbors child.

Your pretense for action was wrong: i.e. you thought it was your child but you were wrong.

Just because your pretense for acting was wrong doesn't necessarily mean that your action itself was not worthwhile.

Nor does it mean that you now must risk your own life by trying to save every little kid you see in danger of getting hit by a car. And if you don't risk your life to try to save every other little kid, that doesn't diminish the benefit of your action in saving one little kid.

So the MAIN and PUBLICLY cited pretense of our action was wrong. OK fine. What of it? Let's move on and talk about the merits of the action separate and apart from the MAIN pretense. OhioGuy has done so and makes a compelling case. Previously, I talked about how Putin's claim that Russian intelligence learned of terror attacks on the US IN THE US being planned by Saddam as being a good enough justification for war also.

There's a whole bunch of very good reasons for getting rid of Saddam. I haven't really heard of any single good reason for not getting rid of Saddam. Can anyone tell me how much better Iraq and the rest of the world would be if only we had permitted Saddam to remain in power followed by rule by his demonic sons?

What if in your quest to save the kid you cause an accident causing the deaths of several others? And upon saving the kid, do you adopt him and kill his parents because they were so irresponsible? And I still don't understand how if you would like to save that one kid but let other kids die?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by myvoice: *
Let's say you see your child about to be hit by a car in the street. You race out into the middle of the road, swoop him into your arms and dive safely to the curbside. You then look at him and see it's not your child, but rather your neighbors child.

Your pretense for action was wrong: i.e. you thought it was your child but you were wrong.

[/QUOTE]
Well the only problem with your analogy is that while saving the child (who was not yours) you also filed a wrong police report that the driver is carrying a firearm and drugs and then when the police was investigating you actually went ahead and killed the driver who you thought was about to hurt 'your' child. And in the process you also broke your arm and smashed 5 other passing cars. And worse of all, the driver was not going to hurt the child but was rather standing at the stop light waiting for the child to cross the road.

See now? :)

well the whole reason you went in was because you knew the driver had run over other kids and was driving with a suspended license and giving rides to drug dealers. see now :) ?