CIA flew stealth drones into Pakistan to monitor bin Laden house - Wash Post

So what now? Move our energies towards technologies to take care of stealth equipped planes & missiles.

CIA flew stealth drones into Pakistan to monitor bin Laden house
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/cia-flew-stealth-drones-into-pakistan-to-monitor-bin-laden-house/2011/05/13/AF5dW55G_story.html

**The CIA employed sophisticated new stealth drone aircraft to fly dozens of secret missions deep into Pakistani airspace and monitor the compound where Osama bin Laden was killed, current and former U.S. officials said.

Using unmanned planes designed to evade radar detection and operate at high altitudes, the agency conducted clandestine flights over the compound for months before the May 2 assault in an effort to capture high-resolution video that satellites could not provide.

The aircraft allowed the CIA to glide undetected beyond the boundaries that Pakistan has long imposed on other U.S. drones, including the Predators and Reapers that routinely carry out strikes against militants near the border with Afghanistan.**

The agency turned to the new stealth aircraft “because they needed to see more about what was going on” than other surveillance platforms allowed, said a former U.S. official familiar with the details of the operation. “It’s not like you can just park a Predator overhead — the Pakistanis would know,” added the former official, who, like others interviewed, spoke on the condition of anonymity, citing the sensitivity of the program.

The monitoring effort also involved satellites, eavesdropping equipment and CIA operatives based at a safe house in Abbottabad, the city where bin Laden was found. The agency declined to comment for this article.

The CIA’s repeated secret incursions into Pakistan’s airspace underscore the level of distrust between the United States and a country often described as a key counterterrorism ally, and one that has received billions of dollars in U.S. aid.

Pakistan’s spy chief, Lt. Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha, last week offered to resign over the government’s failures to detect or prevent a U.S. operation that he described as a “breach of Pakistan’s sovereignty.” The country’s military and main intelligence service have come under harsh criticism since the revelation that bin Laden had been living in a garrison city — in the midst of the nation’s military elite — possibly for years.

The new drones represent a major advance in the capabilities of remotely piloted planes, which have been the signature American weapon against terrorist groups since the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

**In 2009, the Air Force acknowledged the existence of a stealth drone, a Lockheed Martin model known as the RQ-170 Sentinel, two years after it was spotted at an airfield in Kandahar, Afghanistan. The aircraft bears the distinct, bat-winged shape of larger stealth warplanes. The operational use of the drones has never been described by official sources.

The extensive aerial surveillance after the compound was identified in August helps explain why the CIA went to Congress late last year, seeking permission to transfer tens of millions of dollars within agency budgets to fund intelligence-gathering efforts focused on the complex.**

The stealth drones were used on the night of the raid, providing imagery that President Obama and members of his national security team appear in photographs to have been watching as U.S. Navy SEALs descended on the compound shortly after 1 a.m. in Pakistan. The drones are also equipped to eavesdrop on electronic transmissions, enabling U.S. officials to monitor the Pakistani response.

The use of one of the aircraft on the night of the raid was reported by the National Journal’s Marc Ambinder, who said in a tweet May 2 that an “RQ-170 drone [was] overhead.”

The CIA never obtained a photograph of bin Laden at the compound or other direct confirmation of his presence before the assault, but the agency concluded after months of watching the complex that the figure frequently seen pacing back and forth was probably the al-Qaeda chief.

The operation in Abbottabad involved another U.S. aircraft with stealth features, a Black Hawk helicopter equipped with special cladding to dampen noise and evade detection during the 90-minute flight from a base in Afghanistan. The helicopter was intentionally destroyed by U.S. forces — leaving only a tail section intact — after a crash landing at the outset of the raid.

‘A difficult challenge’

The assault and the months of surveillance leading up to it involved venturing into some of Pakistan’s most sensitive terrain. Because of the compound’s location — near military and nuclear facilities — it was surrounded by Pakistani radar and other systems that could have detected encroachment by Predators or other non-stealth surveillance planes, according to U.S. officials.

“It’s a difficult challenge trying to secure information about any area or object of interest that is in a location where access is denied,” said retired Air Force Lt. Gen. David Deptula, who served as head of intelligence and surveillance for that service. The challenge is multiplied, he said, when the surveillance needs to be continuous, which “makes non-stealthy slow-speed aircraft easier to detect.”

Satellites can typically provide snapshots of fixed locations every 90 minutes. “Geosynchronous” satellites can keep pace with the Earth’s rotation and train their lenses on a fixed site, but they orbit at 22,500 miles up. By contrast, drones fly at altitudes between 15,000 and 50,000 feet.

In a fact sheet released by the Air Force, the RQ-170 is described as a “low observable unmanned aircraft system,” meaning that it was designed to hide the signatures that make ordinary aircraft detectable by radar and other means. The sheet provides no other technical details.

Stealth aircraft typically use a range of radar-defeating technologies. Their undersides are covered with materials designed to absorb sound waves rather than bouncing them back at sensors on the ground. Their engines are shielded and their exhaust diverted upward to avoid heat trails visible to infrared sensors.

Unlike the Predator — a cigar-shaped aircraft with distinct wings and a tail — the RQ-170 looks like more like a boomerang, with few sharp angles or protruding pieces to spot.

The Air Force has not explained why the RQ-170 was deployed to Afghanistan, where U.S. forces are battling insurgents with no air defenses. Air Force officials declined to comment for this story.

Strikes along the border

Over the past two years, the U.S. military has provided many of its Afghanistan-based Predators and Reapers to the CIA for operations in Pakistan’s tribal region, where insurgent groups are based. The stealth drones followed a similar path across the Pakistan border, officials said, but then diverged and continued toward the compound in Abbottabad.

U.S. officials said the drones wouldn’t have needed to be directly over the target to capture high-resolution video, because they are equipped with cameras that can gaze at steep angles in all directions. “It’s all geometry and slant ranges,” said a former senior defense intelligence official.

Still, the missions were regarded as particularly risky because, if detected, they might have called Pakistani attention to U.S. interest in the bin Laden compound.

**“Bin Laden was in the heart of Pakistan and very near several of the nuclear weapons production sites,” including two prominent complexes southeast of Islamabad, said David Albright, a nuclear weapons proliferation expert at the Institute for Science and International Security.

To protect such sites, Pakistan’s military has invested heavily in sophisticated radar and other aircraft-detection systems. “They have traditionally worried most about penetration from India, but also the United States,” Albright said.**

Largely because of those concerns, Pakistan has placed strict limits on the number and range of CIA-operated Predators patrolling the country’s tribal areas. U.S. officials refer to the restricted zones as “flight boxes” that encompass North and South Waziristan.

Staff writers Craig Whitlock and Greg Jaffe and staff researcher Julie Tate contributed to this report.

Re: CIA flew stealth drones into Pakistan to monitor bin Laden house - Wash Post

I guess it is time to be independent in arm and weapon development, stop buying it and start developing them... harder done then said, but eventually have to do it, the F-16 and other crap we get from US and Europe ain't worthy any more, we need better technology and it is evident that these arm sellers only sells you things they don't need and never offer you things you do need ( apart from kick-back and commissions)... We do not need to buy anything from them now, we need to develop it at home, doesn't matter if we have to copy it, try to shoot one down and copy the technology... this would help to build the New-Generation of the arms which are being used... other choice is keep sucking Uncle Sam as he pays the politicians and generals big kick-backs to sign the purchase order and get raped every now and then

Re: CIA flew stealth drones into Pakistan to monitor bin Laden house - Wash Post

^^ It is not feasible. it is too expensive and expertise is not there.
if you start now then in 20 years you can build your own and to match america... add more 40-50 years.
America is generations ahead of any country in the world.

Re: CIA flew stealth drones into Pakistan to monitor bin Laden house - Wash Post

^^ yes may be for Indians it is not feasible but i am not talking about India to make it!!! just to give you a hint, no one is saying to re-invent the wheel, which you are recommending here...

Re: CIA flew stealth drones into Pakistan to monitor bin Laden house - Wash Post

According to some sources who requested not to be named, America has very sophisticated stealth posters who spam Pakistani forums pretending to be well wishers of Pakistan but very cleverly undermining the country and shooting down anything that could be good about it.

These sock-puppets are brain washed to an extent that they refuse to say anything positive about this great country.

How can Pakistan fight this kind of stealth technology? Any ideas guys?

Re: CIA flew stealth drones into Pakistan to monitor bin Laden house - Wash Post

okay now, tell them to stop covering for hundreds of CIA operatives roaming in Pakistan.

Re: CIA flew stealth drones into Pakistan to monitor bin Laden house - Wash Post

...yeah, but even the Chinese are beginning to feel it lot more difficult to steal technology these days, so you can stop dreaming of another A.Q.Khan heist.

nobody has anywhere near the technologies that Americans and Russians have. Israel & France are may be a decade behind, China 2 decades behind, India 2.5/3 decades behind and is just showing some signs of even getting into that map.

Re: CIA flew stealth drones into Pakistan to monitor bin Laden house - Wash Post

^^ Chinese or any other nation cannot be example, it is law of nature, Indian some thousands of years ago invented zero and now they go to western universities to get a credible degree in physics... muslims were once the leaders in science and technology ( which was their secret of winning wars) then it was west who took from where Muslims left it, and now they are the leaders, untill someone is going to takeup the job.. nothing is going to happen, and as far as A.Q.Khan saga is concerned, the even russia stole it or bought it from an american couple and later developed it.... so as i said don't think about re-inventing the wheel...

and as for India it is not 2.5/or 3 decades behind, it is at least 6 or 7 decade behind.. just check out the things you make and sell... i think it was Indian helicopter which was bought by some African or Latin American country and it fell down in its maiden flight.... i never saw that happen with Chinese or Pakistan J-17... oh how many J-17 kind of things or better than this is being developed by India??

Re: CIA flew stealth drones into Pakistan to monitor bin Laden house - Wash Post

I wouldn't say 7 decades behind but there is more than a decade gap between china and india. The two decade gap was the talk of the nineties but now the western analysts from FAS and Jane wouldn't agree with it. I would say china is coming to a make or break point where it will have to spread its wings and do some serious research, not just work on reverse engineering western and/or russian technology like in the case of jet engines where they are trying to come up with a reliable and efficient engine: the day china does that then you can see their J-20 truly soaring to the skies.

Re: CIA flew stealth drones into Pakistan to monitor bin Laden house - Wash Post

and to how many economies India sell war-fare stuff... or how many civil nuclear plants India have developed.. last i heard they were trying to buy it from US... and China on the other hand is selling it... and let me tell you this, tere is huge difference between the countries who buy the nuclear technology and who sells its out and that difference can't be covered in a decade or 2....

Re: CIA flew stealth drones into Pakistan to monitor bin Laden house - Wash Post

dude i gave a rational reason but you couldnt fathom it and started this nationalistic bs.
India already has its helicopter program and it is also exporting it.

the reason i said it is not feasible is because it takes lots and lots of money to build just a flying prototype. more money than you get from kerry lugar in a year. and for a country who never had a indigenous aircraft programmme it is next to impossible to match americans in terms of technology. and if you dont export it then you will have to have a huge domestic market to make it worthy and to being cost down.

and there is technical expect too, where are you going to find people who can build it. it takes huge solid institutions with international reputation to produce good avaiation engineers. your industrial growth in other fields contribute in to making one war machine

so it is better to get it off the shelf and transfer of technology if possible.

regarding your hint about reverse engineering. that is not as easy as making a shirt from a sample. if reverse engineering was that easy then you would have had tons of local car brands of your own.
and even then you will be making a old copy whenever u are able to produce it. what about modifications with time, what about newer versions. there are many many issues with it.
even a relatively more developed country like china finds it challanging to reverse engineer american outdated planes. and pakistan is no china.

Re: CIA flew stealth drones into Pakistan to monitor bin Laden house - Wash Post

Excellent point you have raised here. magar "deewaron se baaten karna achha lagta hay":)

Re: CIA flew stealth drones into Pakistan to monitor bin Laden house - Wash Post

people - can either have a jingoistic and patriotic debate. Or a fact based objective debate.

But it is impossible to have both at once.

Ask yourself this: is it more patriotic to recognize, acknowledge and deal with a weakness a country has or is it better to hide it with bombastic demagoguery?

Re: CIA flew stealth drones into Pakistan to monitor bin Laden house - Wash Post

It can be only done if Indian trolls don't jump in here, as soon as an Indian will show up it will become a patriotism issue/defensive attitude just like Indians get defensive when Pakistanis show issues on their side of border.

Re: CIA flew stealth drones into Pakistan to monitor bin Laden house - Wash Post

how does it matter whether it is Indian or Tibetian pointing out the fact? debate the fact or interpretation if you don't agree with it. Take this thread - Kaka_in_USA (I am assuming he is Indian?) said it will take 40 to 50 years to catch up with the USA because in the next 20 years while Pakistan is retooling, USA would forged further advancements. And that is assuming a faster rate of advancement by Pakistan than US. What is 'Indian' about this? You may disagree with the difference in rates of advancement but you know the method he is using is sound!

Re: CIA flew stealth drones into Pakistan to monitor bin Laden house - Wash Post


I am going by the norms of the society/forum, not by utopian thought process :)