Protestants are more well known for their
ability to quote chapter and verse. For some
reason, it seems some Catholics do not place
as great an emphasis on this. I have the idea
that Catholicism could benefit much by bor-
rowing s o m e aspects of other faiths. Not in doctrine, but in a peripheral way. I am
aware of some things written in the last book
of the Bible. These verses are quite heavy in
content from my point of view, containg both
horror and awe. By the way, the Bible would
be accessed at Mass on Sunday for a seminary
student. It cannot be banned from him. The
case of Protestants in a missionary role is
a subject unto itself. At times, their dis-
cretion may be called into question. To do
the job of evangelization takes tact, respect
for culture and talent. Do Hindus embark on
missionary work? It seems Christians and
Muslims are the major players here. Hence,
they must often meet at the crossroads of
the spirirtual frontier. I would like to
discuss more matters with you on a more
private exchange due to some humility on my
part. Is that acceptable?
[quote]
Originally posted by TOMASSO:
Protestants are more well known for their ability to quote chapter and verse. For some reason, it seems some Catholics do not place as great an emphasis on this.
[/quote]
Ibrahim says: Greetings of peace to one and all
To the best of my knowledge the reason is due to the fact that the Catholics have their own version of the Bible which when compared for accuracy based on the Latin or Greek manuscripts (supposedly the originals for the NT) will have grave problems .
Further since they established the trinity doctrine, they have to have their own version for the Bible itself is sufficient to defeat such a doctrine.
In addition I am aware the Catholics, actually use the protestant Bible society to make for them amendments in the bible according to their designs , when they print their community bibles.
Thus catholic priests are “tuned” to only memorize certain verses and use them on a daily basis and No church would ever completely read the bible in its entirety ever but jump form on chapter to another to avoid the ugly ones.
Hence Catholics are not very familiar with the bible.
[quote]
I have the idea that Catholicism could benefit much by borrowing some aspects of other faiths. Not in doctrine, but in a peripheral way.
[/quote]
Ibrahim says: which means you want them to become Buddhists or Sikh!. Because the very notion of inventing or strengthening a faith by filtration or alteration amounts to corruption of revelations. Which means it is NO more Gods revelation but man’s concoctions.
On the other hand the catholic faith is what it is today because it borrowed from the Mithra faith
So IF truth is what you are after, than seek for the TRUTH and the truth will set you free.
[quote]
I am aware of some things written in the last book of the Bible. These verses are quite heavy in content from my point of view, containg both horror and awe.
[/quote]
Ibrahim says: Exactly, that is the reason why the crusades started in the first place and it has NEVER ended and will NEVER end till Christians realize that they have been following an erroneous interpretation of revealed texts.
[quote]
By the way, the Bible would be accessed at Mass on Sunday for a seminary student. It cannot be banned from him
[/quote]
Ibrahim says : you did not get my point, the Bible is a forbidden book to a seminarian whilst in the seminary. That does not mean selective verses are not read and used daily but a seminarian cannot read the bible in its entirety or keep one in his possession …one should wonder why, don’t you think so?
[quote]
The case of Protestants in a missionary role is a subject unto itself. At times, their discretion may be called into question. To do the job of evangelization takes tact, respect for culture and talent.
[/quote]
Ibrahim says; I can point you to many articles as to the tact and respect Christians may show but I am amazed you missed the starting article to this thread which revealed the kind of tact and respect they may be using.
On the other hand the catholic method of integration and transformation is rather deceitful too.
[quote]
Do Hindus embark on missionary work?
[/quote]
Ibrahim says: Hinduism is a blend of religions and traditions with anything and everything included so it does not need a missionary. Thus Anyone who does not like to follow rules and regulations can opt for Hinduism.
[quote]
I would like to discuss more matters with you on a more private exchange due to some humility on my part. Is that acceptable?
[/quote]
Ibrahim says; Not a problem actually, in fact many Hindus and Christians know my private email and where I come from as well as my ethnicity. But I stopped this personal touch of late as I have been receiving too many viruses on a daily basis. Not to mention the amount of subscriptions of my email account to phonographic sites and spam literature. And the difficulties I have to go through to access the net with added costs is war of its own.
In addition I have had my web sites hacked and of late one web site has vanished period .
So I feel much comfortable on a public forum with some anonymity , but surely you too have the same anonymity and have nothing to worry about in this forum.
Best regards
Ibrahim
Do you know how to acess the PM's on this site? Some discussions are better removed
from view of the general audience because of
a lack of seriousness and respect on their
part, ie I don't enjoy being ridiculed on
matters of importance. I'm sorry to hear that
you got so many viruses etc. I am not a cyber
terrorist. In regards to borrowing from the
other large monothesistic religions, I in no
way advocate corruption of the faith I hold,
but the possiblity I may see things in some
different context. Islam seems to have an
interest to me at least in cultural sense. I
would say that Zoroaster might be the pro-
genitor of only one God, predating the Jew-
ish revelation. It is interesting to note
that you refer to a religious chronology of
an order of time new to my understanding. Are
you able to acess the inbox here to check any
PM messages?
[quote]
Originally posted by TOMASSO:
Ibrahim says: I had been able to access my PM once in December last year in the fasting month, which to my surprise had a number of messages from a number of people to which I hoped to respond after the fasting month . And to this day I cannot access those messages or see anything other than the front page to enter the password.
Since you asked I just tried it a minute back and same thing, all I will be able to see is repeats of the first page where it will ask me to enter my pass word again and again.
This is nothing new, I find I have similar problems in accessing other web sites I have tried different browsers even , could be due to some kind of software to prevent access that is either on my computer or on my ISP server or router
Ibrahim says: Discussions are discussions and only the parties who have interest will appreciate them, others may mock, who cares. You cannot imagine the kind of ridicule I will be facing in a hindu web site because I do discuss Hinduism on Hindu web sites where they are the majority and can correct me If I am in error but not here since the Hindus are minority in this forum . So sometimes you have to be thick skin or else we may not achieve what we desire.
Ibrahim says: I do understand, but as you can see, I cannot even access my PM on this forum for some unknown reason.
Ibrahim says : that is what public forums are meant to achieve.
Ibrahim says: Most people who have given some thought about Islam will find it interesting but the amount of negative slanders and anti Islamic propagation by the opposition plus what is being portrayed in the Media can even lead Muslims to think , they is something seriously wrong about their religion, so I think you are doing all right.
Ibrahim says : You are indeed wrong to think as such but that is what they teach in schools , so I cannot blame you.
here this are texts from the Hindu scripture. Any Hindu will proudly tell you that their religion is the oldest on this planet. And I am sure you know Hindus have too many gods to think of even
But look at what their scriptures says:-
“Ekam evadvitiyam” meaning ** “He is One only without a second.” **
[Chandogya Upanishad 6:2:1]
“Na casya kascij janita na cadhipah.” Meaning ** “Of Him there are neither parents nor lord.” **
[Svetasvatara Upanishad 6:9]
“Na tasya pratima asti” menaing: **“There is no likeness of Him.” **
[Svetasvatara Upanishad 4:19]
“Na samdrse tisthati rupam asya, na caksusa pasyati kas canainam.” Meaning : ** “His form is not to be seen; no one sees Him with the eye.” **
[Svetasvatara Upanishad 4:20]
"na tasya pratima asti meaning: **“There is no image of Him.” **
[Yajurveda 32:3]
“shudhama poapvidham” meaning: ** “He is bodyless and pure.” **
[Yajurveda 40:8]
“Dev maha osi” meaning: ** “God is verily great” **
[Atharvaveda 20:58:3]
Ibrahim says: the above message and description of God is what is found in the Qur’an as well as the Bible, so you may wonder how in the world did the hindus get so many idols as their gods?
In order to understand that you only need to understand Catholicism.
-
You see the Catholics invented trinity from nowhere , so did the Hindus
-
The Catholics invented idols of their saints so did the Hindus
-
The catholic carry their idols and venerated them on their feast days so did the Hindus.
-
The Catholics pray through their saints so did the Hindus who eventfully made their saints as gods
In fact the Catholics can eventually end up like the Hindus , if God so allowed them to survive another million years.
I cannot blame the Hindus for their current situation, their ancestors started editing and altering scriptures just like the Jews and Christians have done, so they have now a religion which is totally different from the “Religion of TRUTH” that God approved for mankind.
Ibrahim says: I know, in order to understand that chronology one needs familiarity to a number of scriptures which are kept by opposing parties and one has to be sincere in trying to understand what is being conveyed in those scriptures, any blind hatred, rejection or faith, is not going to help . But most of all without the Grace of God, nothing can be understood.
[quote]
Are you able to acess the inbox here to check any PM messages?{/quote]
Ibrahim says: I have been trying to access my PM, for quite some time but in vain, being a Muslim, I generally do not worry about these matters, so I have left it as such. I recently took up this problem on another forum, where I can read only the first page every attempt to read the articles on the second page will take me back to the first page. Others do not seem to have that problem. So much so every time I post or respond to others, I have to include a short message telling the readers that if they find my post on the second page, and want me to respond, they should post that article as a new thread and make it appear on the first page so that I can read and respond to it.
That’s life for some people. .
Best regards
Ibrahim
You are, indeed, an interesting fellow. This
is because you have been able to do what I
wish I had the time and ability to do. The
possibility that God revealed himself to man
many times, to many folks is not a problem
for me. I did not know about the Hindu deity.
What was this "Godhead" called? Catholicism
does have images of various people in it's
culture. They are venerated, not worshiped.
They are respected like you respect Mohammed,
but you do not permit an image of your last
prophet. They should not have any more impor-
tance than Mohammed does for you. Islam is so
deep that slander and propaganda may not al-
ways be intentional. I, for one, respect the
zealousness of some of your followers. Their
belief is great. Propaganda cannot whitewash
over this. Zoroaster was not taught to me in
school. I searchd this out myself. I did say
I have an interest in cultures and religions.
I have no blind hatred for creeds. I wouldn't
even have hate if Mohammed himself stood over
me with a sword. I was told to love my enemies by my hero and Lord, Jesus Christ. It
is his messages and views that I cherish most
They are not easy to follow, but these stand-
ards are my ethos. By the way, exactly where
did you "learn" about seminarians not being
able to acess the Bible? This is not so. I
try to be respectful to you when I speak of
Islam. I am not here to sway you at all. I
just wish to converse and learn. Thankyou.
Ibrahim says: Greetings of peace to one and all.
[quote]
Originally posted by TOMASSO:
I did not know about the Hindu deity. What was this "Godhead" called?
[/quote]
Ibrahim says; Try searching for “Brahman” as well as “Ishvara”; Now you must understand God has many attributes and each of His attributes will be given a different name and that too can be used to address God, Thus in Hinduism as well as all revelations God has numerous names. The only reason you may not notice this in the current Bible is because English translators chose to restrict it to just Lord and God . Otherwise If you use original texts even the Bible will have many many names for God.
Nevertheless God is not a name and God indeed had only ONE name and many attributes by which mankind can address Him by.
[quote]
Catholicism does have images of various people in it's culture. They are venerated, not worshiped.
[/quote]
Ibrahim says: I know that is what I wrote and that’s what Hindus too originally did but as time progresses man tend to forget the most basic of details and fail to convey them to their offspring’s. Thus their offspring’s end up believing that their forefathers spent much time venerating those idols and hence they are gods and end up worshipping them. This is clearly evident when you try to find out why the Jews cannot know for certain what YHWH means although their forefathers must have known it.
[quote]
They are respected like you respect Mohammed, but you do not permit an image of your last prophet.
[/quote]
The reason should be obvious, it is because some did what the catholics have done they ended up like the Hindus at some future date and time. Thus in order to prevent this it is forbidden in Islam and God too forbade any image making in the Bible.
Leviticus 26: 1. ** "`Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God.**
[quote]
They should not have any more importance than Mohammed does for you.
[/quote]
Ibrahim says; this due to your present time frame but as generations progress clear records have proven that mankind indeed end up worshipping them out of ignorance. This is due to the fact that, we generally do not transfer all the knowledge we acquire to our children and our children may tend to forget much and their children even more.
[quote]
Islam is so deep that slander and propaganda may not always be intentional.
[/quote]
Ibrahim says: care to explain?
[quote]
I, for one, respect the zealousness of some of your followers. Their
belief is great. Propaganda cannot whitewash over this.
[/quote]
Ibrahim says: But you can be no different for we are all created equally, our level of understanding may differ due to the level of knowledge we have acquired but that cannot change the fact that we are one creation.
[quote]
I was told to love my enemies by my hero and Lord, Jesus Christ.
[/quote]
Ibrahim says; All Muslims believe in Christ (pbuh) and love and respect him like any other Prophet . Now here is where you need to realize whether you are ready for the reality test. Meaning to be strong enough to handle truth, one must accept it even if goes against our established beliefs. If we cannot handle such matters I would advise you to refrain from conversing with me since I reveal truth as is, which might look as if I am attacking your faith but in truth I am only revealing what is the TRUTH.
I do not like to conceal TRUTH, and this is sometime difficult for others, for they would expect me to conceal it, in order to please them .
The bottom line is I personally do not like to use the name “Jesus” even though you can find many Muslims using it, simply because it is an invented name and since I love and respect Christ ( pbuh) just like any other Muslim . Although you may find it written in The translations of Qur’an even, I feel it is not right. So I suggest you find out the truth concerning his name and only when you can accept that it is a false name and it is wrong to alter the name of anyone especially the “word” of God. Than your statement that you love Christ (pbuh) has true meaning to me.
[quote]
is his messages and views that I cherish most They are not easy to follow, but these standards are my ethos.
[/quote]
Ibrahim says: whatever Christ conveyed were the words of God when it was in its original state, so If I had lived in his time frame I would indeed follow only those words but his time frame came to an end the moment the Jews tried to kill him, as such I am enjoined to follow the one who comes after him as prophesied in the Bible.
Nevertheless All the Prophets and messengers sent by God , conveyed the same message, that is why you find many things mentioned in the Qur’an sublime and these words are missing in the other scriptures due to alteration and filtration by its followers.
[quote]
By the way, exactly where did you "learn" about seminarians not being
able to acess the Bible? This is not so.
[/quote]
Ibrahim says: From priests who have converted to Islam after being ordained as priests. As I said before I know a number of priests who are now Muslims and propagating Islam.
[quote]
try to be respectful to you when I speak of Islam. I am not here to sway you at all. I just wish to converse and learn. Thankyou.
[/quote]
Ibrahim says: I know and I do not feel that you have said anything or can say anything that can sway me at anytime, for I handle hate mongers and bigots from various faiths most of the time. I also hope you do not get the impression that I am attacking your faith or trying to convert you. I may add, that my nature and style of conversation is not always acceptable to others and some times my truth telling habit or straight talk, might hurt your feelings ( my apologize if any) but I do pray you have a strong character and be able to get the essence of what I am saying and overlook any sharp words that I may use in the course of the discussion.
Best regards
Ibrahim
** A moments insight is sometimes worth a life’s experience**
That which may appear as slander and propa-
ganda could just be a lack of understanding.
The American media, in general, glosses over
subjects. So, a headline and a short story
are what average folks read. Cultures and
religions have much depth. They need to be
fully grasped before commenting or forming an
opinion. I feel that Islam is maybe one of
those subjects which does require much detail
in study. It is related to our views more
than creeds originating further east of Arab-
ia. You have the added perspective of these,
though. Are you originally from the area of
the subcontinent? Many cultures converge at
this point. Eminently fascinating!