Chinese warships for Pakistan Navy

In a major revamp of the Navy costing some $630 million, Pakistan is to acquire Chinese warships to replace its old British stock.

Good news for the Navy and godd news for PAK-China relations!

http://www.timesofindia.com/today/12worl2.htm

Chinese warships for Pakistan Navy

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan Navy in a US$ 630 million modernisation plan is to acquire a frontline Chinese warship and build three others indigenously under technology transfer, according to Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Abdul Aziz Mirza. Declaring that the process of acquisition of the four warships would be completed by the next decade, Admiral Aziz said that procurement of warships from China would be cost-effective in comparison with the purchase of ships from other western countries.

The Pakistan naval chief was quoted by The News as saying that induction of Chinese warships was part of moves by the Navy to phase out British built destroyers in a phased manner in the next ten years. Aziz, the paper said also hinted at moves to develop Gawadar Port on the Makran coast in Baluchistan as an alternatiive to country’s main seaport Karachi, which he said was vulnerable to Indian warships.

The naval chief said that building of an alternative seaport was also a must keeping in view plans to lay gas pipelines from Central Asian states via Afghanistan. He also said that Malaysia, Saudi Arabia and Qatar had shown interest in acquisition of French built Agosta submarines from Pakistan.

Aziz also said that Pakistan would soon acquire a survey ship at a cost of $70 to 75 million

Malik Bhai that is a very good news, but I think the 10 year time should be cut down to 6 years.

[This message has been edited by Musalman (edited January 11, 2001).]

Excellent news.
Post something more after namaz.


CROIRE A L'INCROYABLE

Its another massive step in the increasing economic and military cooperation between the next leading power of the world, and Pakistan.

And unlike the sad state of the Indian Navy it should make our Navy one of the strongest in Asia.

More news from Malik about China. Poor ZZ will be choking on his egg noodles.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/dixsi.gif

Man you are the best! A true leader!

[This message has been edited by Malik73 (edited January 12, 2001).]

I was just checking out BK and i really think we need a forum for Military info board.
Here is something cool and bad.
More help from the chinese and not the west.

=============================================

G-7 sanctions retard Super-7 project

               ISLAMABAD - The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is on the verge of downgrading the specifications
               for its next-generation multi-role combat aircraft, the Super-7, because of the Group of
               Seven's enforcement of an informal ban on weapons sales since last year's military take-over,
               a ranking PAF source said Thursday. "We will soon reach the point where we may be forced to
               take a decision to adopt a Chinese avionics suite, instead of the more advanced technology
               we had hoped to procure from the West," he told The Nation. 

               "Air Command has already been instructed to draw up alternate plans," he said. The political
               fall-out of the G-7 sanctions is also expected to upset the development schedule of the
               Super-7, delaying delivery of the first prototype beyond its 2003 deadline, the PAF source
               said. The revelation comes a week after India sealed a contract with Russia for the supply of
               140 Sukhoi Su-30 Mk1 fighters, along with a complete transfer of technology and production
               licence. The combination of India's latest acquisitions and the downgrading of the Super-7's
               technology are a major blow to the PAF, which has been seeking to re-establish a qualitative
               edge over its Indian counterpart and expected the new combat plane to fulfil about 70 per
               cent of its future operational requirements. 

               The hi-tech version of the Super-7 was viewed as the ideal replacement for the PAF's ageing
               medium-tech fleet of F-6s, F-7s, A-5s and Mirages, which are to be retired over the next
               decade. It is now obvious that its Air Staff Requirement of 150 Super-7s will have to be
               revised to take into account its inability, in the short-to-medium term, to procure advanced
               Western avionics, including a multi-mode Pulse Doppler Radar, a mission computer, INS and
               multi-function displays. The Western arms embargo also means that the PAF will have to
               revise the Super-7's weapons package, which was to have included a variety of conventional
               and guided weapons, a potent SRAAM and an active MRAAM. 

               The PAF will have little choice but to press the government for a much larger number of the
               Chinese version of the combat plane, known as the FC-1, which is to have basically the same
               airframe as the Super-7, but would have to be equipped with Chinese-manufactured avionics
               and weapons systems. There are also small differences in aircraft systems and equipment.
               Pakistan has had to struggle to find an overseas partner for the Super-7 venture. Its earlier
               overtures to Turkey and the United Arab Emirates were rebuffed. Ankara remains committed to
               the production under licence of the F-16, while the UAE has preferred off-the-shelf purchases.
               Beijing, too, had hesitated to form a joint venture, because of its belief in more affordable
               options and weaponry, and had sought to place the responsibility for the procurement of
               avionics with the PAF. 

               They were finally convinced by former chief of the air staff, Air Marshal Abbas Khattak, to
               collaborate in the avionics venture on strategic grounds. It took three years of negotiations
               between 1995 and 1998 to finalise the two sides' selection of equipment, statement of work
               and cost evaluation. A memorandum of understanding was signed by the governments of
               Pakistan and China during the visit of the then prime minister, Nawaz Sharif, to Beijing in
               February 1998. This was followed by the inking of a formal contract during his next visit to
               China in June last year. Appropriately, Thursday's revelations about the Super-7's development
               came on the sidelines of a ceremony at Air Headquarters to launch The Story of the PAF
               (1988-98) - A battle against the odds, a book that details the retarding effect of international
               sanctions on Pakistan's air defence capability over the last decade. 

               The book, drafted by a team led by retired Air Marshal Rasheed Sheikh, candidly relates the
               difficulties encountered by the PAF since October 1990, when the Bush administration
               adjudged Pakistan to have crossed the nuclear threshold. This resulted in the cancellation of
               the Peace Gate-IV programme, under which Pakistan was to have spent US$1.4 billion on the
               induction of 60 new F-16s between March 1993 and February 1997. The enforcement of the
               Pressler Amendment was reflected within a year, when the PAF's fleet of F-16s was hit by
               engine-related problems and all aircraft had to be grounded. The PAF's Project Falcon initiated
               engine inspections and depot level work at the Sargodha Air Base, but it took two years to
               recover the 32 aircraft. 

               Washington also resisted the implementation of the Falcon-Up F-16 upgrade programme,
               saying it was prohibited under the Pressler Amendment, but were eventually convinced to
               relent on the grounds that programme was a safety-related one, and did not enhance the
               aircraft's operational capability. The earlier enforcement of the Pressler Amendment also
               prompted the PAF to launch efforts to procure a non-American hi-tech aircraft. 

               Between late 1990 and 1993, it evaluated and rejected the British Tornado, took a close look
               at the Mirage 2000E, and received a misleading offer from Poland for the supply of MiG-29s
               and Su-27s. In 1992, the PAF revived an 11-year-old proposal to acquire 20-40 Mirage 2000s,
               but Paris was reluctant to sell a fully capable version for political reasons. A possible
               alternative appeared in August 1994, when Sweden's SAAB conglomerate offered to supply its
               JAS-39 Grippen aircraft, but the deal was killed because of its 20 per cent American
               component content. 

               Meanwhile, France had offered the Mirage 2000-V and upon re-evaluation, the PAF concluded
               that model incorporated the technological jump that it had been looking for. The French offer
               was not based upon the PAF's the operational requirement vis-a-vis its operational deployment
               in the event of war, but Paris agreed to remove the plane's deficiencies. The negotiations
               began to become unstuck when it came to the price tag of $3 billion for 32 aircraft, a figure
               that shot up to $4.1 billion when the cost of a 10-12 year financing package was included.
               The PAF continued to press for the technical package, but had to combat both tough French
               negotiating tactics and the Pakistan government's reluctance to pay for such a large
               purchase. The deal was ultimately killed in late 1996 by the caretaker government of Malik
               Meraj Khalid, who was scared off by a distorted media campaign against the Mirage
               acquisition. During this difficult period, the PAF had little option but to take steps to maintain
               its fleet size and operational capability. 

               This involved the induction of additional F-7 aircraft and the launch of two major upgrade
               programmes, the most important involving the upgrade and overhaul of existing Mirage III and
               Vs, as well as F-7s, A-5s and T-37 basic trainer aircraft. The PAF is currently taking delivery
               of 40 upgraded Mirage III and V aircraft under a $118 million contract finalised in February
               1996. 

               This followed the procurement of 50 mothballed Mirages from Australia under a A$27 million
               deal finalised in April 1990, from which a total of 45 aircraft have been recovered, upgraded
               and inducted into the PAF. Unfortunately, the imposition of fresh sanctions by the United
               States in May 1998, following the tit-for-tat nuclear tests conducted first by India and then
               Pakistan, has again hit the PAF's maintenance of its F-16 fleet. These sanctions, imposed
               under the Glenn Amendment, has also affected the serviceability of the PAF's fleet of 12
               C-130s, reduced the availability of its automated air defence network, and rendered unusable
               the six TPS-43 radar employed to provid high-level coverage over Pakistan. 

CROIRE A L'INCROYABLE

Thank you Malik, have a spring roll on me. ZZ isn't around at the moment, he's watching his favourite video..."Enter the Dragon".

Thanks Xtreme I’m off to lunch, think I’ll try the local Chinese - wonder what the fortune cookies hold for me?

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Hmm do the same rules apply for the general???
If so.
Then you two better stop making out and get back to the topic.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif


CROIRE A L’INCROYABLE

Why don’t you join in the fun CM?

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

I think that a separate thread should be started as a folder to bring together all the PAK-China military cooperation?

Pakistan got over this hurdle, thanks inpart to the Italian defense electronics manuafaturer; FIAR. They have tranferred technology for assembling ‘Grifo radars’ to Pakistan. This radar features look down capability within a radius of 27-30 kms. Other avionics for F-7 and Super-7 will be supplied by FIAR or Marcon Electronics of France.

PS, I have some more info on the frigates being manfuctured in Pakistan. Most of the assitance will come from Ukraine. I’ll post it in detail..great post..

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

And yes malik lets start a thread on China - Pak military trade.
And outlaw could you provide some of those sites where you get all of this military information???
I am a novice but a big fan of military tech and info.


CROIRE A L'INCROYABLE

[This message has been edited by Mursalin (edited January 14, 2001).]

Yep let's make this a project of sorts? Outlaw is our resident military advisor so he can help us on gathering on all the info?

Ok fine, anything in the news these days on military info?
Plus you have any links on military info?


CROIRE A L'INCROYABLE

CM, I have been following the development of Super-7 for many years. The news come in little nicks 'n pieces, and basically one has to derive his own conclusion. For instance, the Governement will never reveal the technical specifications before the aircraft is launched. Although, it is a well known fact that they have been vigrously pursuing to equip Super-7 with Western Europeon Avionics- which serve as brain in a fighter aircraft- for a long time. The program was temporarily hampered due to the nuclear tests, however, avionics and other material still didn't fall under any embargo. In the beginning, BAE Systems' radars and avionics were tested, but pilots complained about the incompatibility of the system. Then, CSF Thompson-Marconi was considered and will supply some 'unknown' components. My guess would be HUD( Heads-up display) units. However, FIAR really emerged as a major partner during the ideas 2000, when Pakistan assembled Grifo radars were put on display. Therefore, it was concluded that the Air-Force was well over this hurdle. There are still several unanswered questions, such as what kind of weapon systems will be deployed on Super-7. But, the news will be available once it approaches it launch date, later this year.

I'll have more on the Navy, this evening.

The acquisation of Agosta-B submarines technology is a giant leap forward in laying basic infrastracture for manufacturing naval vessels which involves high degree of complex engineering and percision.

Initially, three giant hulls are welded together which invloves laser-alignment. Then inner compartemets, propulsion systems, and weaponary is added. Present capacity allows rolling-out of a submarine every other year. If countries like Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, and Iran, which have shown keen interest, go ahead with the placement of orders, there's a likely chance that capacity will be enhanced.
The participation of private contractors in this project is almost non-existant as most of the work is carried out by Navy itself. More on the involvement of private contractors later in the article.

One of the Type 53 frigates will be built in China, with subsequent numbers to be made indigenously. Ukraine, which inherited most of the ship-building industry of the Former Soviet Union, is eager to help in the enigeering and fabrication sectors. They have even gone as far as extending cooperation in working on an aircraft career. Pakistan has already purchased close to 300 T-84 type tanks from Ukraine, and is interested in employing a major role Ukrainian role in ship-building.

Due to the exoberent cost of these projects, there should be a greater emphasis in amalgamating private enterprise with the State owned. Sound policies should lead towards encouraging new entrepreneurs to enter into ventures in defense field.

Just came to see if any indian was in this thread.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif

I see none.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

Great news, great post Malik sir bahi jee.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

Take it easy now.


V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**


----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

Thanks for the info oh rightful mod of pak affairs.
And cool info on the Super 7.
So it will be out all plans and everything ready for production at the end of this year??
My question is that is it really what it is cracked up to be, as this was seen by many pakistanis as the next best plane around on the world market.
Is that true?
Also who would it rate say against the mirage and the F-16, standard aircrafts in most military.
So when do we start this thread on chinese and pak military agreements???
I say we stick to this one and let our teacher here Outlaw lecture us on our military might.


CROIRE A L'INCROYABLE

[This message has been edited by CM (edited January 16, 2001).]

If super-7 turns out to be what previous PAF reports claimed it to be,than it would be 70-80% as capable as PAF F-16's.These are the words of recently retired PAF chief.
Remember this is in comparison to PAF F-16's which are block 15 F-16A's.Not in comparison to the more modern ones now flown by many airforces.