China will stand by Pakistan in hour of need: Chinese vice PM

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: China will stand by Pakistan in hour of need: Chinese vice PM


either lines drawn on the ground, or water-line drawn away from the ground.... not going to solve the problem

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Re: China will stand by Pakistan in hour of need: Chinese vice PM

You know you look at a person’s name and you can automatically tell what they think about a post or news.

Look at the ones questioning the loyalty of the Chinese. A bunch of Indians. A few random posters who have their head stuck in the sand and a bunch of posters who believe in delusional ideas due to an education at the School of the Americas.

Considering the Americans take such sentiments seriously, I don’t understand whats wrong with the PA posters. Either they wish to remain ignorant or are deaf dumb and blind.

sachaydino I am sorry but lets not spread lies around as facts. The accession of China to the WTO was agreed to in rounds before Sept 11th. That is why everybody knew in 2005 the textile regime would end.

Lastly Pakistan never went to china regarding Sept 11th. If it did by all means provide proof of such ascertains. News articles highlighting usch discussions would be great.

Edit: Link to statement that Pakistan supported the US the very same day:
http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&complete_911_timeline__war_on_terrorism__outside_iraq=afghanistan

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Re: China will stand by Pakistan in hour of need: Chinese vice PM

That’s a layman or laywoman excuse, shifting responsibility to some one else for the failure. As long PR was doing business with USA Railways was well up to the target. Getting commission by higherups such as mininisters and secretaries started businesses from other countries, such as Japan and Germany. China was worst when a general, a head of organization bought defective locomotives and coaches. PR had to modify plat forms all over railways to accomodate over dimenssion coaches hitting on platform while moving, spending billions. Decide who was responsible for that China or General. I say BOTH.

The corruption nonsense is not the main reason for failure, as 99.99% pakis are corrupt whenever they get a chance. "they follow the doctorine of “muft hath aaiay to bura kya hay”. Railway is a purely technical organization, talk to a person from railways who will tell you what is the main problem. Don’t speculate.

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Re: China will stand by Pakistan in hour of need: Chinese vice PM

Guys get real … this so called deputy prime minister came to show solidarity with pakistan? Goto chinese govt website what his designation is. he is minister of Public security which is interior minister. He came here because ppl are being trained in Pakistani tribal area and they are going into China’s province of xinjiang. Check the facts first .. look at this website to see what his real designation is www.gov.cn/english/2008-03/17/content_922671.htm
And see what Chinese news agency is reporting about his visit http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/china/2011-09/27/c_131163408.htm

We need to get out of self delusion and deal with reality.

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Re: China will stand by Pakistan in hour of need: Chinese vice PM

Right, and PPP supporters wouldn't have burnt railway engines if they were bought from USA.

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Re: China will stand by Pakistan in hour of need: Chinese vice PM


Can you show a related news/article about this?

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Re: China will stand by Pakistan in hour of need: Chinese vice PM

Chinese investment in Pak runs in $ billions, below is news about future projects.

http://www.dawn.com/2011/08/06/chinese-investment-in-pakistan-crosses-25-billion-mark.html

http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story_s.asp?storyid=1093384487

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Re: China will stand by Pakistan in hour of need: Chinese vice PM

for a peaceful and developing subcontinent if you are really interested ,nothing else .

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Re: China will stand by Pakistan in hour of need: Chinese vice PM

guys this discussion about Pak/China relationship not for Rail or india!!

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Re: China will stand by Pakistan in hour of need: Chinese vice PM

so you say rail is not the part of buissiness between pak china ? isake ilawa baat se baat nikalati hai.
any way,

this cheena bhai has come to solve the problem of growing terror attacks in china by terrorists who are using pakistan as training school , he may discuss solidarity issues also but he is a minister responsible for internal security only .

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Re: China will stand by Pakistan in hour of need: Chinese vice PM

PLAYING CHICKEN WITH NUCLEAR POWERS

October 01, 2011

It’s awfully hard for the world’s greatest power to admit its high-tech military forces are being beaten in Afghanistan by a bunch of lightly-armed mountain tribesmen. But that’s what’s happening. Washington is blaming everyone else for the bloody fiasco in Afghanistan, the “Graveyard of Empires.” Right now, the chief whipping boy for US fury is Pakistan, still officially called a “ strategic US ally.”

Last week, outgoing US chief of staff, Adm. Mike Mullen, accused Pakistan’s intelligence agency, ISI, of being behind recent high profile attacks against US targets in Afghanistan staged by the Haqqani network, one of Taliban’s coalition fighting foreign occupation. The Pentagon accused the Haqqani network of being “a virtual arm” of ISI. Pakistan strongly denied US charges.

**The US is reacting with blind rage rather than careful thought. The example of the Soviet 1989 defeat in Afghanistan increasingly haunts Washington.

Ironically, as I saw myself in the 1980’s, the US created the Haqqani network, arming and funding it these “freedom fighters.” **

One of the US Senate’s dimmest members, influential Republican Lindsay Graham, threatens US attacks on Pakistan “to defend US troops” from “terrorism.”

That’s pretty rich. The US invades a country, brands any who resist as “terrorists,” then must invade Pakistan to “protect” its invading troops. Meanwhile, the US is paying bankrupt Pakistan $7.5 billion over five years to sustain the war in Afghanistan.

Ever since the days of George W. Bush, US policy in the Muslim world has been driven by a combination of imperial arrogance and profound ignorance.

When the US was preparing to invade Iraq in 2003, I had dinner with three of Bush’s most senior advisors. “Tell us about Iraq, Eric,” they asked. As I spoke of Kurds, Sunnis, assorted Shia, Yazdis, their eyes glazed over. “Just give us the bottom line,” snapped one Alpha Republican. “The bottom line,” I replied, “is don’t get involved in a messy country you don’t understand at all.”

Well, here we go again with Pakistan. Hardly any senior members of the Obama administration understand complex Pakistan.

But these bulls in South Asia’s china shop are ready to charge in, heedless of the facts.

**Threatening war against Pakistan, a nation of 180 million with a tough military is the height of folly. Pakistan controls most of the supply routes essential to US and NATO forces in Afghanistan. Most Pakistanis now consider the US a bigger enemy than old foe India.

Even crazier, Washington is making warlike threats against nuclear-armed Pakistan, a close ally of China, an important nuclear power. So far, Beijing has been cautious yet firm in its support of old ally, Pakistan.

But US attacks on Pakistan that go beyond the current raids by CIA drones could draw China into a confrontation with the US. China has quietly made clear it will not allow the US to tear apart Pakistan in order to grab Islamabad’s Chinese-aided nuclear arsenal.

More craziness. The US under both Bush and Barack Obama has been trying to get India militarily involved in Afghanistan. But the Indians were too clever to send combat troops into Afghanistan.

Washington then gave India a green light to pour intelligence agents and money into Afghanistan to support the anti-Taliban Tajik, Uzbek and Hazara minorities. The US has greatly aided the buildup of India’s nuclear arsenal – which has only two targets, Pakistan and China.**

All this, of course, has set off alarm bells in Islamabad, which sees Afghanistan as its strategic back yard. Russia is also watching this drama with growing unease.

The strategic interests of Pakistan and the US are different, often in conflict. Yet the US “put a gun to our head,” in the words of a former ISI director (confirmed by former President Pervez Musharraf) and forced Pakistan to join the war against Taliban, a close Pakistani ally and strategic asset.

Why should Pakistan forsake its own strategic interests for those of the United States, whose confused, erratic foreign policy is largely run by domestic special interest groups?

A blow-up between Pakistan and its sometime American patron would be a calamity for all concerned. Expanding a war into the intersection of the interests of four nuclear-armed powers in the height of irresponsibility and manic behavior.
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copyright Eric S. Margolis 2011

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Re: China will stand by Pakistan in hour of need: Chinese vice PM

China is supplying trains even to India. They are getting pretty good.

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Re: China will stand by Pakistan in hour of need: Chinese vice PM

Now for a dose of reality. The Chinese Vice FM is their internal security and intelligence head. He was here on a previously scheduled visit in order to follow up on DG ISI's sudden visit to Beijing sometime ago, basically to discuss joint operations against the ETIM - the so called East Turkistan Independence Movement, a jihadi terrorist group killing Chinese in Xinjiang. Despite our assurances, the Chinese want to get their own people on the ground in FATA to verify that we are doing what we promised to do against these Uighur jihadis, who are finding shelter among our so called assets.

Unlike the Americans, Chinese express their displeasure in private and offer smiles in public.

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Re: China will stand by Pakistan in hour of need: Chinese vice PM

A dose of reality does not come from outsiders looking in.

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Re: China will stand by Pakistan in hour of need: Chinese vice PM

Captain Sahib I don’t spread lies or say things out of blue moon. Though once I also preferred Chinese friendship but it cost Pakistan billions of losses and complete breakdown of Pakistan Railways due to such friendship. China is no more socialist country, it is gradullay moving towards market economy. Definitey they would be stupid if not thinking about short and long term profits from such ventures. It is not friendship but kind of selling their not so good products or products on trials to Pakistan utilizing sales and marketing skills. Comming bact to topic. Read following reports “ke shaiad dil main utrar jaaiay meri baat”

**The collapse of Pakistan Railways

Former president Pervez Musharraf appointed General Javed Ashraf the railway minster, General Saeed the chairman and General Hamid Butt the general manager of manufacturing and services, all of whom had no prior experience in railways.

They imported from China ‘Group 1’ locomotives with axle load of 23 Tons per axle, although the limitation was 22 tons per axle. Similarly, orders were placed for ‘Group 3’ locomotives with loads of 19.3 tons – while the limitation was 17.5 tons per axle.

A special dispensation was issued by the Railways allowing their operation on sections where it could prove dangerous and this is still in force. This has led to numerous accidents and loss of precious lives.

Trials conducted on Chinese Group 3 locomotives revealed that while their fuel consumption was higher the hauling power was much less than the specifications listed jointly by the manufacturers. Their performance was worse than the existing 30 to 40 year old locomotives.

The 64 Chinese locomotives, based on vintage Russian technology, had an additional impact for spare parts procurement valued at $15 million annually, making them the most expensive locomotives ever procured by Railways. Earlier, the annual allocation for maintenance and repair would never exceed $10 million for the total fleet of 530 locomotives.

More recently, in 2009-2010, an additional order for 75 brand new locomotives has been placed with the same Chinese middleman Dong Feng Trading House (DFTH) and Mishan Locomotives Works, the manufacturer.

As if this was not enough, 200 passenger carriages at an exorbitant cost are also being procured, although the same could be manufactured by the factory in Islamabad with imported raw material.

Yet another major source of pilferage is the sub-standard manufacturing outsourced to local contractors – most of these firms owned by front men of senior officers. The Chemist and Metallurgical Centre, responsible for testing and analysing raw materials and spares, boasts obsolete equipment.

Pakistan Railways is not a member of UIC, the international standards regulatory body and therefore cannot have access to their specifications and drawings, nor has railways upgraded their own systems, that could facilitate quality control of procurement.
At the end of the day, economics decides the fate of an industry and an integrated policy would benefit the national economy.**

Published in The Express Tribune, September 20th, 2010.

http://archives.dawn.com/2002/08/11/local2.htm

PR trims platforms to run new coaches

By Arman Sabir

**KARACHI, Aug 10: The width of platforms on the side of railway tracks in various railway stations are being shortened due to a manufacturing fault in the 14 newly-imported coaches, Dawn learnt here on Saturday.

Well-placed sources said a new train, Karakoram Express, would be flagged off from Karachi on Aug 15, and before it began its journey, platforms were being shortened in various stations so that the train could easily pass through those stations.

They said the body of the 14 coaches, recently imported from China, was wider than those of the Pakistan Railways had. The size of the chassis was of the standardized specification and it could run easily on the tracks, but the wider breadth of its body created problem in various stations where the coaches could not be accommodated, so the platforms were being shortened by 6-9 inches.

Officials of the Pakistan Railways claimed that there was variation in the dimension of the coaches while they moved due to which some of the stations were being renovated. They denied shortening of platforms or any mechanical fault in the imported coaches, and said the railways was making adjustments only.

The officials said formal reservation for Karakoram Express began on Saturday and new computerized tickets were being issued to passengers. After President Pervez Musharraf inaugurated the new train in Islamabad on Aug 14, the Sindh governor would it flag off at Karachi, which would leave for Lahore on Aug 15 at 4:30pm. All of the 14 coaches were lower airconditioned compartments for six passengers each. The railways would provide breakfast and other facilities to the passengers. The fare for a seat with sleeping berth would be Rs1,495.

Commenting on the defective coaches, the sources said engineers of the Pakistan Railways, minister of railways, the chairman of the Railway Board and other high-ranking officers paid several visits to China before finalizing the deal. The Pakistan Railways was wholly responsible for giving China a defective design, the sources claimed.

The sources said the shortening of platform would facilitate the new coaches, but shortened platforms would pose a serious threat to the life of passengers travelling in other trains.

When railway officials at Karachi were contacted for their comments on the matter, they said the General Manager of the Pakistan Railways, Iqbal Samad Khan, based in Lahore, was the appropriate person to comment on the matter. When he was contacted from Karachi by phone for his comments on the issue, his phone operator told Dawn that he was busy at the moment.

The sources maintained that there was no need to import the coaches, and it was the first time that coaches were imported.

They claimed that Pakistan manufactures enough railway coaches for its own needs and also exports coaches to other countries.

They sources said the Carriage Factory in Islamabad and Mughalpura Factory in Lahore had the capability to manufacture railway coaches of international standard. The coaches imported from China were bought at the rate of more than Rs32.5 million apiece. If these coaches had been built in a factory in Pakistan, the cost would have been Rs10 million apiece, the sources claimed. They alleged that those involved in the deal had received kickbacks.

The sources claimed that a locomotive factory in Risalpur had been built with the help of Japan, which provided modern equipment and technology, but it remained unutilized.

Railway officials said the railways would get 175 coaches, of them 40 would be built in China and the remaining 135 at the Carriage Factory in Islamabad through technology transfer. The second consignment of 26 coaches was likely to reach Karachi in the next three months.

They said the railways was procuring passenger coaches valued at Rs7.77 billion from China. Besides, a ship carrying 4,000 tons of rails of UIC 54 specification had also arrived at Karachi from China and the consignment would be unloaded in a couple of days.**

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Re: China will stand by Pakistan in hour of need: Chinese vice PM

what this has to do with the topic? I hope you are in full senses while writing such nonsense.

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Re: China will stand by Pakistan in hour of need: Chinese vice PM

I still can't find the amount spent in trimming the platforms from the article you posted. As for the blame, it is clearly on us (Pakistani government).


so our current has decided to not learn the lesson and put its mouth in the same sh!t again.

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Re: China will stand by Pakistan in hour of need: Chinese vice PM

I am not spreading lies. China’s approval for WTO came after 911. As far I remember before U-turn by Musharraf he difinitely called China for support, when Bush told him “Either you are with us or against us”. However I don’t see any article or news item on it. Normally Pakistan look first to China due to so called only friend to Pakistan during such crisis. And yes I am not Indian and my head is not in the sand. I don’t think ISI has given you the certificate of patroitism, so avoid personal attacks and nonsense.

**WTO successfully concludes negotiations on China’s entry

The World Trade Organization today (17 September) successfully concluded negotiations on China’s terms of membership of the WTO, paving the way for the text of the agreement to be adopted formally at the WTO Ministerial Conference in Doha, Qatar, in November.**

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Re: China will stand by Pakistan in hour of need: Chinese vice PM

Hello, you are not that naive to figure it out the amount spent on the modification of thousands of platforms on railway stations all over PR. How much railway civil engineers had gotten commissions from such stupid policy decisions can be confirmed form their living style and palaces they have built.

Once a contract is signed, you are bound to abide under the law till finish of the project to avoid penalties and of course on cost of so called only friend to Pakistan. Pakistan is "Devoted Friend" of Oscar Wild to China.

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Re: China will stand by Pakistan in hour of need: Chinese vice PM

I would rather have factual numbers instead of guesstimates, I am not denying an ill-gotten money for railway civil engineers, I am not trying in anyway to 'defend' such moves, just trying to get actual numbers rather than rumored numbers.


Again, the problem/corruption is ours, its not Chinese engineers' fault if our engineers'/government overlooks the specifications of Chinese locomotives though I also agree that Chinese companies are not angels or "sincere" to their customers (whether its 'friendly Pakistan' or not), they are just another manufacturer who are selling their articles.