came to the office today to find two small boys, both soooo tiny and both less than 7 i’m sure, cleaning the floors 
they were so young, choochay jai, you could see they didn’t even have the strong grip on the broom or control on the broom thingie 
seen the scene of small kids begging or working before to but it really struck today…we colleagues were discussing this amongst ourselves too…lekin we just decided its the norm so lets not get too perturbed and got back to our cubicles…
My Khala's domestic servant, Bilquees, had four children i think. The youngest was about 8 or 9 years old. Ab shayed das ka ho ga. He worked as an apprentice to a tailor. Bilquees told me he was the hardest working out of all of her four children. At night, after his little weary body had returned home, he would massage his mother's feet - ask her if she wanted paani, or anything to eat. Can you imagine... an 8 or 9 year old working all day hunched over a sewing machine, and then he comes at night and the first act he does is to massage his mother's feet.
Allah aisay bachon ko jannat mai eik jaga dai Insha'Allah.
i don't know what solutions we have to this issue. i honestly have no clue. By eliminating child labour, one also eliminates that additional source of income many families may be relying upon - just as Bilquees was relying upon her 9 year old son's income maybe to help pay the rent or something. There should be some immediate financial compensation for parents in order to convince them of the benefits of taking their children away from employment and towards schooling.
This is such a sad situation. I met the most adorable 10 or 11 yr old servant boy who didnt beleive me when I told him that the world is round. And he wanted to know if New York is as far away as Islamabad (which he considered to be like the end of the earth) I saw him take his very first sip of soda and he said "It jumps in your mouth!!" I just wanted to adopt him and take him home with me.
But if they dont work, maybe they wont eat. So what to do? Its a societal problem that needs to be addressed - if they just outlaw child labor, they're creating more problems than they're solving. And there isnt enough money in the gov'ts coffers to provide school with breakfast and lunch programs for students. But by educating the children, they could help the country get to where it needs to be.
A very serious dilemma that I dont know the answer to.
Child labor is the worst form of human right violation. To think that people think that they are giving them work and otherwise they will starve to death ... ah my foot, I think that doing nothing to change the situation even worst. If the government is going nothing, then atleast the educated people could stand up and speak againt this.
If there is something that we all can do, that is the word of mouth progaganda, I think Irem, you should complain to your superiors that this is not something that is toleratable in such a firm. Its a shame that all this is officially allowed and we close our eyes and say, things will not change so why try ! If no one is going to take a step then this will go on and on and on...
what is the solution here. we know the situation, we know the issues. talk about realistic short and long term solutions.
One person not letting a kid work does jack, the kid will go work somewhere else, or starve.. not quite the situation one would like to see.
madhanee as far as petrodollars rich people being an issue, lets not forget the landowners who did not have problems with kids working in their farms and fields. The urban domestic servant market is large, but i doubt if it is as large as the rural agricultural worker market with the whole serf system still in place.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Madhanee: *
The emerging middle class in Pakistan (that has brought back petrodollars) is the largest exploiter of the secondary labor market. In most families, where there are 10-20 household members, they can easily do thing around the house. But they are lazy and think that they are “too above” mopping floors and cooking dinner, so they exploit these poor people of the society that have no other job opportunities – these workers (including child labor) usually come from the minority groups.
[/quote]
The flip side is that without the middle classes providing these jobs, these poor people's poverty would be deepened further.
Of course, I'm not supporting child labour, an educated person always has a better chance of breaking out of the poverty cycle. But the poor, uneducated adults... without exploitation by the middle class they would be even worse off.
Mdhanee
I think I agree with you on many points with the exception of this not being an issue in rural areas, I have seen kids work in farms, shops, as domestic servants and what nots there as well.
Now for the problem at hand,
I would have no problem if child labour is completely banned. (in addition their need to be more regulations for minimum wage, maximum working hours, vacation and leave etc for domestic workers)
but..
once you outlaw this, you have taken care of the symptoms, what about the causes. why are these kids working, their parents want/need them too, once this source of additional income is gone, what does it mean to the entire family and the kid.
banning child employment is only a partial solution which is not sufficient, the causes should be fixed, and not just the symptoms. That starts with pverty alleviation, minimum wage laws, social welfare and all this can be done by diverting our resources from military use and focus it on welfare of the people. This requires sorting out the issues with India and moving on with life.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Mamaof3: *
This is such a sad situation. I met the most adorable 10 or 11 yr old servant boy who didnt beleive me when I told him that the world is round. And he wanted to know if New York is as far away as Islamabad (which he considered to be like the end of the earth) **I saw him take his very first sip of soda and he said "It jumps in your mouth!!" I just wanted to adopt him and take him home with me.*
[/QUOTE]
:( :( :( :( :( :(
Someone asked what's the solution. You can't just take away the additional source of income. It doesn't solve anything, just exacerbates the problem. Those two little boys mentioned at the beginning of this thread, probably take their meagre earnings back home to their families - they may have siblings who need an operation, a father who needs bus fare every day, sisters who need money for their weddings. Those boys may have been earning for any of those reasons, who knows. You tell them they should be in school and you don't offer them a feasible economic alternative - what are they going to do except scoff in your face and rightly so.
So...folks, think of solutions. Put your thinking caps on.
* a trade school? It's not ideal, but still - at least at the end of six months, they have a more stable form of employment. Could be arts or crafts, handmade crafts are big among gorays now. There's that shop in Islamabad - starts with an "S", forget what it's called...sells only handmade stuff. Girls and boys both could be taught to make handicrafts that are then exported to foreign countries. Part of the revenues from that should be set aside to build a school or library in the community where these children live.
for every family that sends a certain number of children, especially their daughters to school, maybe there could be tax refunds. There was some law in Quebec or somewhere, due to a low birth rate, where the provincial government gave viable tax rebates to parents who had more than one child. Same principle - you send your kid to school, you get a tax rebate at the end of the year. Where does the money from the tax rebate come? i suggest we take it from the top 10% of the upperclass in Pakistan - tax them and use that money for tax rebates for poor families. Those freaking 10% who live in palatial villas with security guards and mercedes will have to learn to survive with one less security guard or one less trip to Italy for the summer. boo hoo. They will get over it. And even if they don't, screw it. Maybe a tax cut of all senior-level governmental officials as well. Everyone forgoes their vacation money for the next year.
night schools? If some kids HAVE to work during the day, why not have some classes held at night time. This would be difficult to implement, because children - especially girls - would have to walk from their homes to the schools, but ideally the school would be located right smack in the middle of the community. For all of this, you need funds. For funds, you need a government that is willing to allocate less money towards governmental salaries and a bit more in the social sectors. i think the idea of taxing the top 10% of the country's upperclass, is a really good idea.
*Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
*Someone asked what's the solution. You can't just take away the additional source of income. *
Exactly, child working is only the symptom, poverty that is forcing these children to work rather than be i school is the dilemma.
** Girls and boys both could be taught to make handicrafts that are then exported to foreign countries. Part of the revenues from that should be set aside to build a school or library in the community where these children live. **
The first part is happening, but the working conditions in these handicraft places are horrible. there have to be better work conditions rules enforcement. Maybe ISO social responsibility qualification.
*** for every family that sends a certain number of children, especially their daughters to school, maybe there could be tax refunds. **
Nadia, do u really think that these people who are working odd jobs and getting bare minimum salaries pay taxes?
*Those freaking 10% who live in palatial villas with security guards and mercedes will have to learn to survive with one less security guard or one less trip to Italy for the summer. boo hoo. They will get over it. And even if they don't, screw it. *
Tax collection is a major isue, from corporations as well as individuals. I forget the exact numbers but when I met Shaukat Aziz he had mentioned some miniscule percentage that we actually collect of all taxes that should be paid.
*** night schools? If some kids HAVE to work during the day, why not have some classes held at night time. **
yes, minimumum wages first of all would help many families to not have their kids work, family planning would help them not produce so many that they cant support. as far as phasing it in goes, limit work hours for these kids, set mimimum pay and benefits including education that the employers have to pay for. and then see what happens.
You are right, no tax refunds - we can call it a direct cash handout. Simply put, you send your kid to school - the government gives you a certain amount of money at the end of the year. The programme sounds very naive but it was implemented by a Swedish NGO somewhere in western Africa, i think. i wish i knew which country or what the details of the programme were, but i completely forgot. Bare bones of it were that the NGO gave a direct financial compensation to the parents for sending their children to school every day.
Tax collection - the government should make this its number one priority. i am all for squeezing every bit of excess money from the top 10% of the country's bloodsuckers/elite class. They can do without the summer jaunts to London and the frolicking in their BMWs.
i like your idea of making the employers pay for the education...or at least subsidize it partially.
Nadia: Your suggestions are good but the one on tax refunds is impractical... taxes will only create another source of corruption for individuals.
I believe Nawaz Sharifs first government did introduce a law against child labour after the issue threatened exports in the early '90's. Again the problem in Pakistan is not laws..we have plenty, it's enforcement.
My family in Pakistan has always tried to look after domestic servants..and almost all were sent to school (even when they didn't want it) the end result was they either robbed us..or ran away to another employer who treated them far worse...
hey everyone,
thanks for reading my post and posting your interesting views here… :k:
highsocietylady, welcome to GS 
actually, if our company fires them, they will just get another job somewhere else…there needs to be a system in place which ensures that there is no child labor in the country…
although the kids seem excited to come into a well furnished office and the work is not too difficult…ignorance is bliss i guess…but its still sad to see that these kids are not going to get the opportunity to get a decent education, which is the right of every human being and duty of every Muslim…
I am against child labour but simply abolishing that is not going to work. Most of these kids work not because they wantt o but because theyhave to, from a young age they are helping with teh family income, without their contribution the family will suffer. so its not sinply a matter of abolishing child labour, it is also looking at the wages that their parents earn, cost of living, etc.
EXACTLY!! we have these two kids around the age of 12 working at our house. so obviously i wasn’t used to it all n sum of my chachuz wuld treat em like crap 
hated em for doing that…but i felt bad so i wuld call them bhai n they started callin me baji so sweet
so then i askd one y he doesn’t go to school n y he works here..so he said that he has 15 siblings and his rentz work too so he juz came to our house n livs there too cuz they(parents) arready have loadza burden on themselves…
but i mean it ain’t really bad…cuz we have a factory right nex to our house n they mostly do house work as in go out to the store to get stuff o sumfin..n plus they live in our house and our workers r like our family..but we do have a few exceptions where ppl tend to boss em around n treat em like crap only cuz they think they own em…eventhough that chachu of mine lives separate n tends to act like he owns everything 
In factories children work up to 16 hours per day, are as young as 5 or 6 years old. They are often injured, there are many deaths. And yet they receive barely enough pay to stay alive. I ask you ladies and gentlemen, those of you here who object, have you ever experienced such cruelty as this? How do you have the right to give our youngsters such suffering?
Factories need new legislation, including abolishing child labour under the age of 14 and bringing these children within the reach of education, and within reach for a chance of happiness.
pakistan
now... I have never been to pakistan (or any other country in asia for that matter), and I do not know about the situation there.... but I wonder, why the government has not interviened... is the pakistani government also a tool of the bourgeois, profit-seeking, careless middle and upper class, as it is in amerika?