Unfortunately this cause they are fighting and dieing for in Iraq is making our country less safe and less secure. It has nothing to do with partisan elections, it has to do with the future of our country. Again, the dishonor is to the active and reserve troops being sent to fight a war that is being waged on a false premise and making the world a more dangerous place. Just because they are there doesn't mean we pretend it wasn't a mistake to put them there. We did that for many years in Vietnam and it cost tens of thousands of lives.
So let's debate if the war in Iraq is advancing the cause. I categorically say it is not. It is diverting us from going after the fundamentalists that attacked us while increasing their recruitment and the resentment against the US. But now that we are in Iraq it is obvious the US has to have a strategy to win it. Someone has to fix the mess this president has put us in a with his poor planning, poor decision making and poor strategies. He does not deserve another 4 years based on his resume to date, especially since he can't even acknowledge the realities of his poor decision making. How can we do better if we pretend we are doing the best job now?
Some non-thinkers in this country say "don't change horses in midstream." But if that horse took you into the most dangerous part of the stream because of its bad instincts and decsion making, how long are you going to stay on the old nag? How close do you come to drowning before you jump onto another horse who at least offers hope of a different path? Another chance won't come for 4 more years.
There is a long, long list of things we can be doing to win the 'war on terror'. Way down on that list (perhaps somewhere on page 134), would be: topple Iraq on false premises, alienate the world, don't have a plan for the peace, spend hundreds of billions of dollars and divert all of our troops on this adventure instead of concentrating on the terrorists who attacked us.
Kerry has talked about what he will do as president in Iraq and since he hasn't been proven that he can't do it (as Bush has), it offers hope in the midst of a quagmire.
Convene the world's major powers and Iraq's neighbors to insist they make good on a U.N. resolution calling for international troop contributions and financial assistance.
Get serious about training Iraqi security forces.
Carry out a reconstruction plan that finally brings tangible benefits to the Iraqi people.
Take immediate, urgent, essential steps to guarantee that the promised elections can be held next year.
I believe it is a patriot who wants better for this country instead of blindly following wrong policies just because they were made by a president. It doesn't mean pulling out and leaving. We messed up the bed and now we have to make it. Based on his 4 years in office, I just don't see this president capable of doing it.
Regardless of whether you feel that the initial decision to invade Iraq advanced or didn’t advance the cause, the battle going on over there now is advancing the cause and, in fact, is the main battelfield in the war against terror. If Zarqawi and his followers were not in Fallujah today kidnapping and beheading people, blowing up innocent Iraqis and spreading their terror campaign throughout Iraq, what do you think they would be doing? Do you think they would be peacefully praying in some Mosque 24 hours a day?
It is not just a question of how we “end” our involvement over there in Iraq. The operative word is “WIN.”
Cmon Seminole. What about those 4 points do you see as a viable “PLAN?” Exactly how does Senator Kerry “insist” that the world’s major powers and Iraq’s neighbors supply troops and financial assistance? France, Germany and Russia aren’t sending troops to Iraq no matter whether Kerry, Bush or the Michelin Man is President.
What would Kerry do different in training Iraqi troops? That process is ongoing and the effort is already pretty serious.
What is Kerry’s “reconstruction plan that birings tangible benefits to the Iraqi people?” And please don’t tell me that it is insisting that the world’s major powers and Iraq’s neighbors send troops and financial assistance.
What are the immediate, urgent and essential steps that Kerry promises to take that will guarantee elections next year? Even the UN believes that elections can be held on time in the current environment. ** U.N. Says Iraq Can Hold Credible Elections on Time ** http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=6598750
Seems like the immediate, urgent and essential steps are being taken by the current administration.
although interms of draft dodging, aren't there levels of how you dodge it, whether its clinton who took off to UK, or cheney who mysteriously was always exempt from it or W himself.
Myvoice, take off those rosy hallucinating inducing eyeglasses for a moment. The Bush post-“major battle” plan has been a failure, the cause that it is advancing is terror recruitment.
Kerry’s plan, includes training Iraqi troops in a secure location so they don’t get beheaded before they’re even a viable force, His plan to have a summit has been endorsed by the European Commission President, why would something as simple as a Summit make sense? Because Bush hasn’t reached out. Myvoice, Bush has driven the country into a ditch and he keeps pressing on the gas which only furthers complications, it’s time for a new driver.
As far as elections and UN saying they could be held in the current environment, you got that wrong too. Annan has said security conditions must improve before the UN sends in staff necessary for the election.
Regardless of whether you feel that the initial decision to invade Iraq advanced or didn't advance the cause, the battle going on over there now is advancing the cause and, in fact, is the main battelfield in the war against terror. If Zarqawi and his followers were not in Fallujah today kidnapping and beheading people, blowing up innocent Iraqis and spreading their terror campaign throughout Iraq, what do you think they would be doing? Do you think they would be peacefully praying in some Mosque 24 hours a day?
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It is a battlefield because the US has left a vaccuum of power that is sucking in every terrorist within car bomb distance to Iraq. We are doing a horrible job at containing these terrorists so I disagree that we are advancing any cause. There are more and more attacks each day than the previous. But were these guys ever even part of the cause until we gave them the opportunity to start beheading and blowing up Iraqi police? The cause are still in the mountains of Pakistan and Afghanistan where we lost focus when invading Iraq.
Any other repressed Muslim country we invade, plan poorly for and allow open borders would have an equal number of terrorists pouring into it. What did we expect, flowers and camp fires? Recruitment is way up for extremists because of this blunder and we gave them a playground to practice their evil ways.
There obviously isn't a lot of options for Kerry or anyone else to fix the problems we now have. It's like the president shattering a crystal vase and putting the onus on the incumbent to find ways to glue it back together as the president sits there with bloody hands and a bottle of super glue, telling everyone he would do it all again the same way, has made no mistakes and is on track.
Kerry's 4 points are about the only issues we can address at this point and since Bush is/has been doing such a poor job at it I think we need to give someone else a chance.
As far as elections and UN saying they could be held in the current environment, you got that wrong too. Annan has said security conditions must improve before the UN sends in staff necessary for the election.
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Apparently, either you or Kofi (more likely both) don't know what the UN guy on the ground in Iraq is saying and thinking about elections. Just click on the little blue thing that has the Reuters name in it. It's called a link and it contains news from today.
Seminole. You act like Zarqawi and his men didn't even exist or were sitting around the campfire singing Kumbaya before we invaded Iraq. As is abundantly clear from the link UTD supplied to MSNBC, they were busily making ricin and other deadly poisons to attack the UK and other countries. These terrorists already existed. Bush didn't make them. They now happen to be congregating in Iraq where they think they can defeat the Great Satan by beheading a bunch of people, murdering a whole bunch of Iraqi's and turning the country into a graveyard of violence and mayhem.
You want to blame Bush for the fact that this war did not end up being a quick in and out, fine. You want to blame Bush for bad WMD intelligence, fine. But man, don't delude yourself into thinking Kerry has any kind of a real plan to make things better. A vote for Kerry is just a hope that some world leaders might like a Kerry administration better than a 2nd Bush one and do something helpful. IMO, that is naive and dangerous. I don't want a President who will let Chirac or any other world leader decide what actions best secure the American people.
You act like Zarqawi and his men didn't even exist or were sitting around the campfire singing Kumbaya before we invaded Iraq. As is abundantly clear from the link UTD supplied to MSNBC, they were busily making ricin and other deadly poisons to attack the UK and other countries. These terrorists already existed. Bush didn't make them. They now happen to be congregating in Iraq where they think they can defeat the Great Satan by beheading a bunch of people, murdering a whole bunch of Iraqi's and turning the country into a graveyard of violence and mayhem.
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There are way more unsavory characters planning the demise of the US in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc then there are or ever were in Iraq. It just doesn't wash to justify the Iraq war based on alleged successes against Zarqawi and his merry bunch as they blow up civilians, execute Iraqi policemen and soldiers and kidnap and behead innocent foreigners. As you say, a previously contained terror group is now turning Iraq into a graveyard of violence and mayhem. We can't train Iraqi forces fast enough and the ones we do can't protect and allow them to be infiltrated. Regular Iraqis are seeing no improvement in their quality of life and are less secure in their own country than ever. We are allowing thousands tons of explosives to disappear. There are more and more attacks against the US and Iraqi forces than ever. Fundamentalists are winning in the polls (if we are ever secure enough to hold an election). Allies are leaving, not joining. Muslim and world wide public opinion and respect for the US are at all time lows. Where exactly are we advancing the cause?
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A vote for Kerry is just a hope that some world leaders might like a Kerry administration better than a 2nd Bush one and do something helpful. IMO, that is naive and dangerous. I don't want a President who will let Chirac or any other world leader decide what actions best secure the American people.
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I don't either. But at this point it looks like Chirac had a better idea at what best secures the American people than Bush did. At least with Kerry there is hope. Bush has absolutely no plan other than the one that isn't working. He has made huge stategical, political and security mistakes and refuses to budge form his stubborn instincts that got us into trouble. Continuing that path and to think it will get better is naive and dangerous.