I personally am very defiant of norms. I don't care about traditional expectations of the male and female. I don't care whether men are programmed to sow their seed or whether women are programmed to mate with the man who has the best attributes on display. Evolutionary theories and what not don't justify different moral standards for men and women.
So PERSONALLY, if I call the women is scenario A liberated, I would do the same for the man. If I call her loose, I would hold the same opinion of the man.
As far as the majority of the world is concerned, yep they have double standards. Desi or non-desi, the same ideas exist. HOWEVER, desis fall on the extreme end of the spectrum.
Delusional.
Oh? So every woman wants a loser instead? Face it, if George Clooney "renounced his ways" and converted to Islam (if that matters to you) and proposed to you, you would probably say yes. I don't know how old you are so pick the appropriate celebrity lol.
And yes Desis are more extreme. But men and women ARE different, like it or not. You're always going to be treated differently. Like I said, women have to deal with this negative stigma but they also have the power to turn men into putty should they wish to. It goes both ways. For a woman to sleep around is EASIER. That's why it's frowned upon so much. The average man simply does not have the opportunity to sleep with that many women. I wonder how many guys, if they suddenly had fame and fortune thrust upon them, could resist hundreds of women throwing themselves at them?
And you can try to fight the norm all you want but it's women who are the most critical of other promiscuous women. Biology always wins. Getting off topic here...but yeah desis are more extreme but it's a more conservative society too.
By the way Reha, the person who said that there is no double standard in western societies, were they desi or white?
So many of these mothers ship over simple 'back home' girls to marry the sons that they know have slept around and with that same mentality the cycle gets repeated all over again..
Please be little brave and say ‘Pakistan’ Standards instead of using ‘desi card’ ,with that out of the way,I must say
It is across the board as I see hence my point above ^ I have south american friends, Chinese friends who have such issues and the later has the worse of records
Secondly to relate such ^ ‘relationship with female gender’ is exclusive to ‘wannabe’ society status. Percentage wise it would be less than 2-3 percent practice for the entire population, hence nothing to write home about.
Ps : What is your criteria of ‘Immature responses’ ? I need to know ,
You are a ‘Mod’ so set some good standards,rather than being a bully :cobra:
Oh? So every woman wants a loser instead? Face it, if George Clooney "renounced his ways" and converted to Islam (if that matters to you) and proposed to you, you would probably say yes. I don't know how old you are so pick the appropriate celebrity lol.
Read carefully. I said, it is delusional to think that EVERY women wants a 'non-loser' because exceptions exist. We are not species that run on instinct only and therefore latch onto alpha males.
And meet me. No, I would not say yes to him or any other celebrity or stud whose looks/attributes I admire even if he turns into a muslim and wants me to marry him (Unless I lived a similarly promiscuous lifestyle before deciding to mend my ways). Good thing you qualified your statement by using 'probably' rather than 'surely' or I would have had to type 'delusional' again. :)
Yes, men and women ARE different. I'm not denying that neither will I deny it ever. Except for the cost of pregnancy (that's where biology wins), the cost of social stigma IS in our hands. Having different moral standards for the genders is WRONG.
I'm not trying to fight the norm and I know that the consequences of this norm will and do affect me one way or another, but that is not in my hands.
I know I can't change it but it does not mean I have to accept it as right. And I won't.
Fair enough. I never said it's right, just saying why things are the way they are. For most of human civilization, birth control didn't exist and the "sexual revolution" in the west really only occurred recently.
And yes thanks for seeing the distinction. I was speaking in generalities not specifics. I realize every person is different and I was referring to everyone in my posts, including people in the west, who do go for men like that because it's rare that people aren't promiscuous.
Its interesting…very interesting you ask me that. They were desi and the viewpoint was that westerners are beyond double standards and they ONLY exist in desi cultures or areas where desies reside…like my area Chicago.
No, I do mean desi…not just Pakistani…it has nothing to do with bravery (although how it would be brave is beyond me).
As far as immature responses, I was referring to jokes or meaningless comments that could derail a thread that is meant to be very serious.
I was having a conversation with a friend and their viewpoint was that DESI people are FAR more stereotypical than NON-DESI. I do agree with this.
However, they went so far as to say there is no gender bias or double standard in non-desi societies and it ONLY exists among DESI people. I disagree with this because I do not know many non-desies that would ignore a promiscuous woman's past and take her home to mama.
Just a few observations.
*Non-desi men & women are both expected to have had sex before marraige many times, so yes, it is less of an issue with them. So a non-desi man wont mind if a women had few hookups in the past. A desi man will mind that a lot. On the other hand a desi women despite the previous relationships of a man will accept him if he is otherwise a suitable match. The double standard id due to attitude of not only men but desi women as well.
*Women are more tolerant of men's affair than the other way around, in both desi and non-desi culture.
this line of questioning is just aggravating.. why is it anyone else's business about what someone chooses to do with their lives in ways that don't involve them? learn to mind your own business.
this thread scores viciously high on the controversy index - and can be dissected into three of the most hackneyed themes in here - premarital sex, gender discrimination, desis vs. non-desis morality.
the right answers on GS are of course - no to premarital sex, men and women are equal yet different (my personal favorite), and desis have a better sense of morality because they are religious and god-fearing.
this line of questioning is just aggravating.. why is it anyone else's business about what someone chooses to do with their lives in ways that don't involve them? learn to mind your own business.
this thread scores viciously high on the controversy index - and can be dissected into three of the most hackneyed themes in here - premarital sex, gender discrimination, desis vs. non-desis morality.
the right answers on GS are of course - no to premarital sex, men and women are equal yet different (my personal favorite), and desis have a better sense of morality because they are religious and god-fearing.
Blaze one mate, its a forum. Its there for people to rant about meaningless stuff. See, I didn't need to respond but I did. I should probably blaze one too. Two puffs and passes it on
WTH? Who is questioning who here? Does the thread talk about a friend of mine or someone I know? Um, no. These are general questions and if you do not like what we’re discussing here…there are plenty of other threads for you to browse.
As for the second irrelevant bit…nowhere do I talk about morality or blah blah blah. It is talking about views of society…in general versus that of desi. Does being non-desi make you such a liberal that there are no longer any society taboos? Is there a double standard among non-desies?
Please stay on topic, Ive no idea WHERE you got all that from…
Based on my upbringing and background I would say both of them are cheap. It's really hard to say if I would feel the same way were it not for my religion. It's easy to say that I would still have the same morals were it not for my religion but I am the way I am because of the rules I had to follow. Had I not I could easily have been ok with casual relationships.
Double standards apply to all societies they are just different levels ie in desi society a girl who sleeps with one guy is a slut whereas in the west maybe if she slept with 15 shed be considered a slut , guys will usually be judged less for having many sexual partners. Also does desi apply to people of the subcontinent? Muslims? Pakistanis? I find that a lot of Indians have changed their cultural norms significantly and are more aligned with the west so I was just wondering who 'desi' refers to.
Based on my upbringing and background I would say both of them are cheap. It's really hard to say if I would feel the same way were it not for my religion. It's easy to say that I would still have the same morals were it not for my religion but I am the way I am because of the rules I had to follow. Had I not I could easily have been ok with casual relationships.
Double standards apply to all societies they are just different levels ie in desi society a girl who sleeps with one guy is a slut whereas in the west maybe if she slept with 15 shed be considered a slut , guys will usually be judged less for having many sexual partners. Also does desi apply to people of the subcontinent? Muslims? Pakistanis? I find that a lot of Indians have changed their cultural norms significantly and are more aligned with the west so I was just wondering who 'desi' refers to.
Upbringing and our religion has A LOT to do with how we perceive and judge people...agreed 100%.
However, if you think about it...how different are the morals taught to non-desies? They are also told not to lie, cheat, steal, sleep around, commit adultery, murder, etc etc etc. Their Bible does not say its okay to do any of the things I listed. The only difference I see is enforcement of those rules.
They are A LOT less judgemental and more lax about these things but are they so lax that it doesnt creep into their thinking when they are choosing who to be with?
Does a non-desi man look at a woman who is promiscuous and forget about her past because his is just as colorful? What is promiscuous? Or does he think "this is not the woman I want to be the mother of my children"? My question is, do non-desies ignore these things completely or is there SOME double standard STILL there?
Does a non-desi man look at a woman who is promiscuous and forget about her past because his is just as colorful? What is promiscuous? Or does he think "this is not the woman I want to be the mother of my children"? My question is, do non-desies ignore these things completely or is there SOME double standard STILL there?
While there may be some double standards, non-desis are able to over look this stuff and don't focus to much on stuff like this. I have non-desi friends who are religious and believe in abstinence but they have partners who've slept around and it doesn't bother them because they say they focus on the person and what the future could be, not what happened in the past.
So a non-desi man wont mind if a women had few hookups in the past. A desi man will mind that a lot. On the other hand a desi women despite the previous relationships of a man will accept him if he is otherwise a suitable match.
I know dozens of desi women who would never accept a man who has had a few hookups and if they do, they don't accept him in their heart, they agree to marry him because of outside pressure. Thank God my hubby told me he respected women and would never sleep around and expect this double standard.
The double standards are still there in western society but far less eg the vast majority of non-virgin western men (at marriage, which is practically all of them) will not be bothered if their future wife isn’t a virgin, it’s usually only a problem if she’s slept with half the town or something.. It’s becoming a lot more common as well for them to overlook the fact that she might already have a child.. Desi men in these situations tho will almost always want to marry a woman who’s ‘untouched.’
My youngest uncle who’s a widower (only in his late thirties tho) recently married a divorced woman with a teenage son and sooo many people were shocked by that and openly said why didn’t he go for someone younger or unmarried
Also when a western guy gets a girl pregnant usually his family will try and get him to take some sort of responsibility for the kid but if it’s a desi guy (even more so in the case of a white girl) nine times out of ten they’ll tell him to dump her and not accept the baby
Both are cheap but yeah there is some in-justice towards the index of cheapness from society and unfortunately this gender discrimination towards women is largely from women.
Female: educated, pretty, nice, great personality, all the bells and whistles are there, etc. However, she has been with at least 3 men that you know of...not in the marriage context...casual relationships. Is she cheap or sexually liberated?
Scenario 2
Male: educated, good looking, nice, great personality, all the bells and whistles are there, etc. However, he has been with at least 3 women that you know of...not in the marriage context...casual relationships. Is he cheap or "the man"?
Furthermore, if there are double standards for gender............are they particular ONLY to desies or are they true all across the board...?
p.s. - Immature responses are discouraged and will be promptly deleted. I want real answers.
Both "cheap".
Yes there are double standards and it's not unique to just desis.
