Re: Change
1) So you are asking for Military to take control (ok Mohib-e-watan Generals) -- right? We all know who has power in Turkey.
Generals in Turkey don't have as much power as they do in Pakistan. In Turkey, there is a constant struggle for power between the Judiciary, the elected Government and the Army. While the Army may have the upper hand, it is not completely dominant.
Anyways, whoever is in control seems to have done a very good job.
Re: Change
Generals in Turkey don't have as much power as they do in Pakistan. In Turkey, there is a constant struggle for power between the Judiciary, the elected Government and the Army. While the Army may have the upper hand, it is not completely dominant.
Anyways, whoever is in control seems to have done a very good job.
If you consider power that can remove democratically elected Prime Minister (Islamic oriented PM that is) , "little power", then there is nothing anyone can say.
Re: Change
If you consider power that can remove democratically elected Prime Minister (Islamic oriented PM that is) , "little power", then there is nothing anyone can say.
If I remember right the PM also removed a dozen senior generals last year. That's like sacking all Corp Commanders in Pakistan. Any PM here got the guts to do it?
Re: Change
If I remember right the PM also removed a dozen senior generals last year. That's like sacking all Corp Commanders in Pakistan. Any PM here got the guts to do it?
Its the PM of ARMY's liking ..so he can do this. I bet had Necmettin Erbakan done it, he would have been kicked out sooner than he was.
Anyways. last thing we need in our country is secular revolution. (btw, there is no true secular country in the world). All we need is to get rid of extremism, education and swift and visible justice
Re: Change
point taken.
Yes and you defended church in the White House as an aspect of the Secular Government. Sad.
Also Munza and Icesoul, if anything any revolution in Pakistan would be along the lines of the Islamic Revolution in Iran. The fact is that the majority 90% of the country is deeply religious. Unlike the posters on GS. There is a huge disconnect between what we call the English medium and the Urdu medium. The Mehran Man as quoted by the Guardian is a deeply religious, modern politically movitated Islamist with a view to a large Ummah where the religion is more important than a sense of national identity. That is roughly 160 million Pakistanis.
I always ask this question to prove how disconnected posters on this forum are. Remove the word Islamic in our official Title as a country. How many in Pakistan would agree with that? Easily less than 2%. On GS a majority would.
Re: Change
Zia Ul Haq was your type, wasn't he. And look where he left the nation. Not to mention what he did to his "Muslim Borthers" in Afghanistan.
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I dont agree that 90% of Pakistanis are deeply religious. Nor do i agree that a secular government means economic development. That argument as lame as those saying that implement a religious code and everything will take care of itself.
There are 50 secular countries that are in a worse mess than Pakistan.
Pakistais are not deeply religious but they are not secular lot either. The system should respect their beleifs and their culture. Any attempt at imposing secularism upon them will only create more problems.
Re: Change
The current state of this country gives me that right.
Anyways, its a never ending discussion. You can choose to accept that countries like the US and UK are ahead of us. Or you can continue to insist that a religious model like Iran or Saudi Arabia will work. As I said earlier, To Each His Own.
Re: Change
the question arises, are we ready for the change? are we mentally prepared for this change? we can only change when we want to change... a dream can only be made reality when somebody works on it... the point is, we need to work for the change and as a starter, lets not discuss our glorious past, lets not discuss our wonderful religion(s), lets not indulge in refuting other point of views on the basis of personal likes and dislikes, lets try to live with differences, lets try to tolerate the ones who do not carry or believe the views we have, lets not follow anyone blindly, lets try to re-build Pakistan of our children... : it is high time we start working towards the change.. the change would only come, if we change our thinking style, if we identify our problems and if only we try to fix them... let us identify the problems we have and lets try to seek the solutions for it...
To me, the major problem is our ruling elite, the one who is always in parliament, doesn't matter if it is Democracy ( thats what they call it) or if it is Army rule... they can be found with Ayoub, With Yehya, With Zia and With Musharaf...
As much as I would like to agree and point the problem other ways, I will disagree with you. The problem in Pakistan is you, me and everyone out there. We can't say 'the problem is ruling elite' and get away with it. Who elected the ruling elite? You and me. When they do the wrongs, do we hold them accountable? No, even in next election we vote for them again. So brother, the problem is you and me. We need to correct ourselves, we need to start holding these 'ruling elites' accountable for each and every action. We need to stop paying bribes, can we do that? Do we have patience to go through proper trial for anything? Are we ready to pay full electricity bill and not use kunda? The list is long for us to correct ourselves before we start blaming 'ruling elite'.
Re: Change
We need a Turkish style revolution leading to a TOTALLY SECULAR government and extremely strict laws for crimes such as murder, rape, corruption, kidnapping etc (As in China, where many of these are punishable by death).
After the secular revolution, the government should put every thing on the back burner and concentrate on education. Only when the masses are truly educated (and not just able to write their names) will Pakistan prosper.
Also, the liberation of women that will follow a secular revolution will itself trigger massive economic development.
Were talking about Pakistan here. Remember the huge uproar when Musharraf took out the name Islamic Republic from the passports? Of course secularism is the way to go but when you got mullahs everywhere then its close to impossible.
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Were talking about Pakistan here. Remember the huge uproar when Musharraf took out the name Islamic Republic from the passports? Of course secularism is the way to go but when you got mullahs everywhere then its close to impossible.
I'm not saying it will be easy. But if we can put Mullah's everywhere, we can take them out. As always, awareness is the key. And a strong leader. The average Pakistani doesn't know what's good for him as shown by his voting patterns.
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Our only hope is from you people grown up abroad in some better involvement.
We all here are trapped in our corrupt past.
Only way to save this country is to start again . Give pardon to all of us if we are ready to surrender.
Remember the original name of Pakistan.
God given state of Pakistan
مملکت خدا داد پاکستان
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Would it be possible for Pakistan to bury the hatchet with India (at least for 15 to 20 years?)
That way Pakistan (and India too) can concentrate on their Economy, education and health.
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We need a Turkish style revolution leading to a TOTALLY SECULAR government and extremely strict laws for crimes such as murder, rape, corruption, kidnapping etc (As in China, where many of these are punishable by death).
After the secular revolution, the government should put every thing on the back burner and concentrate on education. Only when the masses are truly educated (and not just able to write their names) will Pakistan prosper.
Also, the liberation of women that will follow a secular revolution will itself trigger massive economic development.
why Turkey? why not Malaysian?
Re: Change
I wonder which type of goverment did you mean, Islamic Government and danda, only for ppp, of Zia-ul-Haq Or Islamic governement of Saudi Arabia?.
Almost every one in Pakistan is frustrated, I have yet to see a happy and satified soul there. But when it comes to money every one wants to grab it whether by hook or by crook. Elite blame poor masses, poor blame elite class, politicians blame military, military blame politicians, every crook in Pakistan believe in holier than though attitude. When nation go that low, only Allah can intervene like Sodam and Gomorah, there is absolutely no solution.
Yes there is no happy soul in Pakistan, to me, it is logical to blame the ruling elite as they were elected ( whenever elected) to provide relief to the poor but instead they did more looting then the military dictators did!!!
it is us the people who need to learn that these people who are land-lords, industrialists, generals they cannot solve our problems.. as a matter of fact i really doubt that they even know our problems... so lets not look at them any more.. lets not get fooled by them... lets not praise them lets not vote for them... lets not kill and fight in their name....
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I sincerely believe , new people , new faces are needed on the political arena .. We need to break the existence of parties like PPP and PML and their whole lot .. and start seriously voting for those individuals who come from the masses rather then the elite class...
The state of mess that the country is in right now , even a common , well educated man can run the country better then the current lot.
u hit the nail right bro... that is what i am trying to say.. lets create awareness amoung the people of Pakistan... lets use our friends and social networks to spread the message
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As much as I would like to agree and point the problem other ways, I will disagree with you. The problem in Pakistan is you, me and everyone out there. We can't say 'the problem is ruling elite' and get away with it. Who elected the ruling elite? You and me. When they do the wrongs, do we hold them accountable? No, even in next election we vote for them again. So brother, the problem is you and me. We need to correct ourselves, we need to start holding these 'ruling elites' accountable for each and every action. We need to stop paying bribes, can we do that? Do we have patience to go through proper trial for anything? Are we ready to pay full electricity bill and not use kunda? The list is long for us to correct ourselves before we start blaming 'ruling elite'.
that is what i am saying, i've blamed the ruling elite ( most of the time voted by us) because we voted them to solve our problems not to increase them... we voted them for better future not for the worst one!!! and that is the reason i have not said single word to fix the current political leadership... my emphasis is on you and me.. we need to elect the right one...
In any society when breaking law, stealing and bribing is symbol of power and member of high society then it is hard to convince anyone to pay his bills perform his duties... do u agree on this point?
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Were talking about Pakistan here. Remember the huge uproar when Musharraf took out the name Islamic Republic from the passports? Of course secularism is the way to go but when you got mullahs everywhere then its close to impossible.
we need not to be allergic to the word Islamic... nor does we need to abandon Mullas.. secular people are equally funny... we need to be tolerant towards each other...
Re: Change
Today I saw a program at Sama Tv .
Faisla Aap Ka
Must see it . A perfect talk on this issue.
must see it.
Faisala Ap Ka – 4 September 2010