change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

You are mixing things. Try to stay on one topic. The rapes are happening in every province. Its society failure and not political. What do you want ? For now, PTI lost and PMLN won, they have RIGHT to rule till 2018. They are delivering better. What ever you may say about Punjab, Shahbaz Sharif has transformed Punjab. His 5 years under PPP didnt have his brother PM. He has done what no other CM has done. No other CMs combine have done what Shahbaz has done and thats why he GOT VOTES. Whether you like it or not, accept it or not, All this BS about Punjab is just that BS. We are in 21st century, this Crap about Provinces and Punjab is not going far. Show performance get votes. My parents are retired in Abbottabad. KPK govt is as in ept as it gets. If they are doing good work, 2018 will give the Verdict. So instead of being hateful, be objective. For Now you have not other Choice but to accept PMLN is here to Stay and Inshallah will win heavily in 2018 as well.

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Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

Why has our countrymen become so negative. Why is that every thing has to be a conspiracy. Why is that a lot of people and particularly PTI followers have become so negative that they cant find any good in any thing. This is probably the most serious threat a society can have where a politican for his ugly desires turn youth in to so hateful to others that people are become absolutely inept at taking middle road.

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Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

I dont know about other things but Imran Khan did lie to becoem PM. His 35 puncture epic FAIL is nothing less than most shameless act one can remember. He has been proven wrong over and over, he has proven himself a Broken record and now he is trying push limits by punishing Punjab not voting him. I can only imagine, 2018 marketing campaign and how his character will be destroyed using his own words and actions. I remember he tried Burning lahore and Faisalabad, on Lies like 35 punctures. No one is racist for pointing the facts. The FACTS are 2013 elections are OVER, PMLN Won heavily, PMLN won again in all by elections. Judicial Commission didnt find any wrong doing but systematic faults that needs to be fixed. Imran needs to grow up so as his supporters. Instead of trying to make CPEC controversial where $35 B out of $ 46 B are simply for energy projects, try to work in hand. NO ARMY will intervene this time, they cant. Imran has to wait for 2018 and most probably for 2023. Accept it or not, like it or not this is the FACT.

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Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

Are you freaking kidding me? Punjab the heaven on earth with superman of a CM has the highest number of rapes, way more than any other province. This is because Punjab police is politicised to the core. Tell me how many notices of rape your CM has taken, and what happened to to cases? What your CM is doing for the rampart rape, robberies in Punjab? Does Punjab has state of art health care, police, and education?

I don't care about your Punjabi chauvinism, but accept realities as well. The entire development budget of Balochistan is the budget of Pindi Metro, then likes of you have the nerve to abuse other provinces. I hope the other provinces rise up and break this system of rig Punjab, occupy Pakistan. Why should other provinces be ruled by Punjabi chauvinists they don't even elect? Punjabis can have Sharif family until 2099, why should rest of the Pakistanis suffer? Look at you, PNLN supporters like you don't believe that PMLN should play a role of responsible and responsive federation and resolve issues. It's all about mud slinging other provinces. rubbing salt in their wounds and laughing at their miseries.

When Punjab's total NA seats are more than NA seats combined of all three other provinces. Why should Punjabi leaders give a hoot about non Punjabi stakeholders?

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Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

Of course. PMLN the party that can stoop so low and distribute BB's fake nude pictures from a plane, they can do absolutely everything to launch formidable character assassination campaign against IK come 2018. Has there ever been a time when IK hadn't face any character assassination? It was your party that started the whole Yahoodi thing.

Let PMLN rapist media leader Adnan Sanaullah come out, I'm sure he'll plan an excellent media campaign for IK. Bring it on.

Pashtuns have every right to demand more equality and transparency in CPEC. It is their constitutional right. Shame on those who call them traitors.

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Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

Yeah more stories and more crap from past that is meaningless today. If PMLN did those wrongs they suffered, so as PPP back in the day. The 90s politics was ugly and all of Pakistan suffered. Get over it, PMLN of 90s is no longer here so as PPP and that is what Imran needs to understand now that he has been used like a toilet paper by generals once.

Fast forward to Today, No rapes are not happening in Punjab because of Police, Rapes are happening in Punjab or Pakistan is society breakdown which is happening for over 60 years and nothing to do with a political party. Childern in Thar are dying, Bacha Bazi of Peshawar is at its heights, etc etc, these are societal issues. They will only get better when the system as a whole will improve and that starts with every individual.

For, Punjab being haven, no Its not haven, but it is better than other three and its well documented its because of the fearless leadership of Shahbaz Sharif. He has used his resources and his hardwork to transform province. Say what you want, you are irrelevent here so as I. The people who have witnessed transformation of a province from Pindi to Rahim Yar Khan are relevenet and let them decide. Your thesis means NOTHING.

KPK govt like past Govts is quite in ept. They have done some good work to get some Policemen directing traffic and thats where it ends. In any case, it doesnt matter what I say or not, 2018 will

Yes Punjab has more NA seats than others, because it has most population. This is the same Punjab that voted almost PPP in to Power, had Bhutto call Lahore his fortress, voted PTI close to 8 million votes and what Imran gives back, try to burn Lahore, Try to Close Faisalabad? Destroy lives of daily wage earners for 126 days based on his lies and his lust for power that Inshallah he will never ever have. So yes Punjab has most NA seats and the in this day and age, the Vote from Punjab is only on Delivery. On one side there will be scenes of people burning Lahore and Faisalabad and other the development. I will let you decide whom people will vote. The issue with Imran is that he has weak character, he got used like a toilet paper by generals, he cant control his tounge and his little friend and then he expects others to not take advantage. Regardless, I know I am open to voting who ever deliver and for now Shahbaz sharif is winning by miles.

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Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

So when your Punjabi Kings giving Lodharan the Rs. 2.5 billion package that he promised in front of everyone? Yes now it say it was all a lie. What is the situation with LB representative taking charge? Your PMLN's media leader has been accused of brutally gang raping a minor and instead of feeling sickened and condemning, you are cursing IK like he has personally committed a crime against you.

Stop this pathetic fascist language of burning Lahore, burning this and that. It was your Punjabis that came out to support PTI, not idiotic Pashtuns from KPK, Balochs or Sindhis! This is a pathetic fascist mindset that cannot tolerate powerful protests.

Yes your opinion is irrelevant, 2018 will decide everything. Hopefully the other three provinces also realise that they don't have to be ruled by a Punjabi chauvinist party they don't even elect who later in Federation poses all kinds of hindrances for them.

Long gone the days where people of Punjab were open minded and genuinely appreciated strong opposition. Now PMLN has given birth to the phenomena of Punjabi bigotry where everyone from other three idiotic provinces are traitors accept Punjabis. Why do you even need three provinces in Pakistan? Just have Punjab as a country with Sharif family as Royal Family.

I can show countless examples of delivery in KPK, will you come out of your Punjabi chauvinist agree and admit that? It is actually a compliment to PTI that their 3 years in a warn torn province is competing with heaven on earth Punjab ruled by King Showbaz Sharif since 9 years. Why don't you also give PTI the same amount of time before rubbing salt in their wounds?

KPK elected PTI in LBE, let's see if they give them another chance in 2018 - of course 2018 decide everything.

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Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

Honestly, before going gaga over Punjab and rubbing salt in other province wounds. Do consider that Punjab has historically been one of the most prosperous regions in the whole of Indian subcontinent regardless of the rulers. Yes Indian Punjab despite not having superman, batman, iron man, spiderman that it is Shabaz Sharif has done excellent! So this is where historical background is important to consider.

Significant areas of Balochistan to this day are largely inhabitable due to nature. Afghan war and recent Taliban insurgency have destroyed the fabric of KPK society. So really PMLN supporters should have some shame when they laugh at these provinces and make fun of their miseries. Showbaz Sharif inherited a very stable and progressive Punjab from Ch Brothers. Same can't be said about other two CMs. If you want to give out a signal that Punjabi leaders will never work in their interests and will always blame them, then fine, get rid of the whole federal NOC culture, and let these CM's make their own trips to foreign countries to attract investors. You really think Nawaz Sharif will leave behind his sons, brother and other cronies to take along CM Balochistan to China (forget PTI)?

Sindh is the only province which had distressingly and shocking bad considering Sindhi party had enjoyed government at centre and provisional level numerous times.

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*Overall good discussion in this thread. No need to get emotional. I have cleaned up the thread removing all the posts with personal attacks. Please stay on topic, otherwise an action will be taken. thx *

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Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

KP is paid for the electricity it produces through Hydel projects. The electricity benefits the national grid, but KP is compensated for it.

Punjab would benefit, as much as any other area of the country which is connected to the national grid. That the highest consumption of energy occurs in Punjab is not due to theft, but to the simple fact that Punjab is the most densely populated part of the country. And im sure you would agree that given the acute shortage of energy, it would only make sense that priority should be given to those areas that contribute the most toward the economy... So powering the textile factories etc in Punjab, which constitute a good portion of the GDP, should take precedence over small towns in KP that dot contribute to the same extent.

As it was mentioned in the article above, the Feds have asked the provinces to identify areas for industrial zones. But a number of problems exist. Besides security in Balochistan, other impediments are the lack of funding. CPEC isnt an open source of funds, its very specific. Many of the projects being implemented are not actually funded through CPEC. Also, you cant simply make an industrial zone appear overnight, it requires some ground work first. Punjab already has an extensive infrastructure that encourages investors to inject money more readily as they are more likely to see a quick return. Thats not the case in Parts of Balochistan or KP.

As far as who will be hired, Pakhtuns have a huge economic foot print in Pakistan second only to Punjabis. There are sufficient numbers of well trained Pakhtun professionals and laborers that you wont need to hire outsiders.

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Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

I would strongly suggest that you read the article I linked to in post no. 224. Its rather informative.

I can understand the cynicism, but lets not criticize for the sake of it.

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Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

Many things can be made to look all rosy and picture perfect on the paper. But this is where importance of facts and ground realities come in. KPK may get compensated but this also means KPK ends up buying electricity at much higher rate with long hours of due load shedding. Moreover, KPK hasn't been paid their share of Net Hydel Profit for last 7 years with no agreed payment plan for future. So yes, there are genuine concerns and frustration that needs to be addressed, and it is okay to address them. You cannot expect total silence when stakeholders are carrying baggage of disastrous past dealings.

It is much easier for people to chant slogans for democracy, but democracy also means undergoing the painful tasks of resolving issues amicably with certain compromises. Asking for suppression of any criticism and genuine concerns is a hugely destructive approach.

[QUOTE]
Punjab would benefit, as much as any other area of the country which is connected to the national grid. That the highest consumption of energy occurs in Punjab is not due to theft, but to the simple fact that Punjab is the most densely populated part of the country. And im sure you would agree that given the acute shortage of energy, it would only make sense that priority should be given to those areas that contribute the most toward the economy... So powering the textile factories etc in Punjab, which constitute a good portion of the GDP, should take precedence over small towns in KP that dot contribute to the same extent.
[/QUOTE]

I rather believe Federal Minister of Water and Electricity that theft also plays a huge role in shortage of electricity and so does outdated grid lines.

Give electricity to the whole country by all means, but don't have this discriminatory attitude towards areas and communities that don't 'contribute' towards economy. If you don't want to share electricity, then at least give them compensation or share of NHP or invest, in collaboration with provisional government in small scale energy programmes. If these areas don't have electricity, how would they ever possibly achieve economic mobility and contribute to the economy?

[QUOTE]
As it was mentioned in the article above, the Feds have asked the provinces to identify areas for industrial zones. But a number of problems exist. Besides security in Balochistan, other impediments are the lack of funding. CPEC isnt an open source of funds, its very specific. Many of the projects being implemented are not actually funded through CPEC. Also, you cant simply make an industrial zone appear overnight, it requires some ground work first. Punjab already has an extensive infrastructure that encourages investors to inject money more readily as they are more likely to see a quick return. Thats not the case in Parts of Balochistan or KP.
[/QUOTE]

No you cannot make industrial zone appear overnight that's why KPK wants to see the plan for KPK in the CPEC or at least in Federal proposals. KPK also has reservation how party politics is being played over NOC where Federal government isn't granting NOC to investors for KPK. Now let's not deny this and pretend that Pakistan is Norway or Finland, where you can have parties like PMLN rule and expect them to not to not play any dirty politics to give a hard time to their nemesis in KPK whose only aim is to compete and overtake your home province. If Federal government can get rid of NOC system, then I am sure KPK will make direct deals with foreign investors, and bring business to the province.

[QUOTE]
As far as who will be hired, Pakhtuns have a huge economic foot print in Pakistan second only to Punjabis. There are sufficient numbers of well trained Pakhtun professionals and laborers that you wont need to hire outsiders.
[/QUOTE]

That's a very noble guess, if not wishful thinking, and I hope this comes true. But sadly there is no evidence that the workforce for Hydel project won't be outsourced. So these are contractual details where KPK government must clarify the quota for local employment in Hydel Project.

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Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

**Karot Hydropower Project at ****Jhelum River … 720 MW

**

http://www.karotpower.com/cms/editor/upload/images/1_副本.jpg

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http://e.dunya.com.pk/news/2016/January/2016-01-16/LHR/colum_img/65426_62486807.jpg.pagespeed.ce.iNjuSxOo40.jpg

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Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

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Note : Lower Part of CPEC in " What KPK See"

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Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

The issue that KPK has with CPEC is that the center is supposedly NOT building anything in the smaller provinces. Thats not true however. They are building these dams, they are building new railroads, motorways etc.
And accordingly, the center believes that they have given the provinces due representation during negotiations, they have asked them to provide details on potential economic zones for future growth. And there belief that the provinces
are playing politics is not necessarily an exaggeration or flight of fancy.
There is a general governance issue here which concerns distribution between provinces, there are bureaucratic hurdles, there is political mistrust... But those are things that need to be worked out. Democracy in Pakistan is an
evolving process. It takes time. But just as you would want others to not be naive and assume the best of intentions from the federal government towards KPK, you should also not cynically assume the worst of intentions. There is always
two sides to every story.

Theft is an issue though out Pakistan. There are parts of Peshawar that are infamous for not paying their bills at any cost.
Its not discrimination, its just demographic and economic reality... If there isnt much to go around, then you have to be selective where to allocate your resources. Given the shortage, it makes economic sense that priority
be given to areas that generate the most economic output. It would be irresponsible to do otherwise.

NHP I dont know much about... But again, its a governance issue. To assume malicious intent in lieu of any evidence and just based on conjecture is not fair.

As far as who is going to be employed in the construction of, functioning and maintenance of the dams, I havent seen any evidence to indicate that this is some conspiracy to just employ Punjabis at the expense of Pakhtuns.

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Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

You seem very misinformed on the whole issue. I suggest you read more about KPK government's reservation to fully understand the whole argument. They have categorically said that building a highway or rail track is not akin to building the Western route, KPK wants to know what plan Federal government has to bring industrial growth to KPK. Giving them a lollipop of a big project that completes in 10-15 years and contributes to the national grid is not enough.

[QUOTE]
And accordingly, the center believes that they have given the provinces due representation during negotiations, they have asked them to provide details on potential economic zones for future growth. And there belief that the provinces
are playing politics is not necessarily an exaggeration or flight of fancy.
[/QUOTE]

More misinformation. No small provinces were represented when Sharif brother went to China to sign contracts. So far there had been only been two meetings on the whole issue where Federal and Provisional governments were represented. KPK government has been given no real documents over CPEC. There is serious transparency and secrecy issues in regards to CPEC. Giving nice presentation or asking editors to write wishy washy stuff is not a valid and legally binding evidence of anything. KPK wants to see the agreements.

One hand you ask provisional government to identify economic zones and on the other you don't give NOCs to investors who want to invest in KPK. If there are bureaucratic hurdles, they need to dealt with, if there is a political mistrust, that needs to be eliminated. For both things, efforts are needed.

[QUOTE]
There is a general governance issue here which concerns distribution between provinces, there are bureaucratic hurdles, there is political mistrust... But those are things that need to be worked out. Democracy in Pakistan is an
evolving process. It takes time. But just as you would want others to not be naive and assume the best of intentions from the federal government towards KPK, you should also not cynically assume the worst of intentions. There is always

[/QUOTE]

One of the responsibilities of stakeholders of evolving democracy is to genuinely try to resolve issues and conflicts instead of suppressing them.

[QUOTE]
Theft is an issue though out Pakistan. There are parts of Peshawar that are infamous for not paying their bills at any cost.
Its not discrimination, its just demographic and economic reality... If there isnt much to go around, then you have to be selective where to allocate your resources. Given the shortage, it makes economic sense that priority
be given to areas that generate the most economic output. It would be irresponsible to do otherwise.
[/QUOTE]

This demographics and economic priority excuse meant smaller units couldn't be developed in last 70 years, if we carry on with this discriminatory attitude, these units won't be developed for another 70 years. Pakistan lost East Pakistan due to this tunnel vision.

In the age of information anyone who thinks that economic disparity can run along the lines of ethnic and regional divides without fanning the already existing divides needs a reality check. We need to find ways to reduce these disparities instead of adopting the age old failed and dishonest policies of 'it is what it is, live with it'.

[QUOTE]
NHP I dont know much about... But again, its a governance issue. To assume malicious intent in lieu of any evidence and just based on conjecture is not fair.
[/QUOTE]

Why can't you? When Federal government only decides to meet the local government after they threaten cutting Punjab's electricity, and when the Federal Minister skips the next meeting, why shouldn't malicious intent be assumed? You do know that PTI and PMLN are arch rivals and there is a competition going between two province? I KPK goes ahead of Punjab in terms of performance and development, it massively hurts PMLN who love to get the credit for ruling the most developed and prosperous province. Generous amounts of funds in the kitty can change the face of KPK.

[QUOTE]
As far as who is going to be employed in the construction of, functioning and maintenance of the dams, I havent seen any evidence to indicate that this is some conspiracy to just employ Punjabis at the expense of Pakhtuns.
[/QUOTE]

Nor there is any evidence that federal government contract means the staffing won't be outsourced just like it is in Balochistan. KPK has every right to seek guarantee of employment for the local population.

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Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

Gazprom Talks LNG with Pakistan

Gazprom Chairman Alexey Miller meets Shahid Khaqan Abbasi, Pakistan’s Minister of Petroleum and Natural Resources.

By **MarEx2016-01-20 18:46:19
**
Russia’s Gazprom hosted a working meeting between Chairman Alexey Miller and Shahid Khaqan Abbasi, Pakistan’s Minister of Petroleum and Natural Resources.

The leaders discussed areas of cooperation, particularly addressing the possibility of Russian LNG supplies to Pakistan and Gazprom’s participation in hydrocarbon exploration and production projects in the country.

Pakistan’s economy has continued to struggle with underemployment, slow economic growth, and high inflation. Expensive energy sources, circular debt, and insufficient transmission and distribution systems have caused a major energy crisis. According to the

Asian Development Bank, prolonged power shortages have cut GDP by about two percent. Pakistan’s government has indicated that addressing the energy crisis is a top priority.

Being the sixth-largest in Asia-Pacific (after Australia, China, Indonesia, India and Malaysia), Pakistan’s recoverable natural gas reserves amount to 570 billion cubic meters.

In 2014 Pakistan produced 42 billion cubic meters of natural gas. The total volume of gas produced in the country is consumed domestically.

The main natural gas producers in Pakistan are the state-run companies Oil and Gas Development Corporation (OGDCL) and Pakistan Petroleum Ltd. (PPL).

In July 2014, the Pakistani government approved the construction of three LNG terminals, including the Engro Elengy LNG Terminal. The first shipments of LNG began to arrive at the terminal in July 2015, via a floating, storage and regasification unit (FSRU).

China has agreed to fund and build a natural gas pipeline from Iran to Pakistan following the end of international economic sanctions imposed against Iran as a result of its nuclear program.

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**Pact signed for Gwadar Port City Master Plan feasibility study - Newspaper - DAWN.COM

***Published in Dawn, January 23rd, 2016

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan and China on Friday signed a letter of exchange for the feasibility study of Gwadar Port City Master Plan Project costing Rs410 million under a government-to-government arrangement.

Economic Affairs Division Secretary Tariq Bajwa and Ambassador of China to Pakistan signed the letter of exchange on behalf of their respective governments.

China agreed to finance the project under grant assistance and subsequently a meeting was held in Beijing on Aug 25 between Chinese ministry of commerce and the government of Pakistan to discuss Gwadar Smart Port City Master Plan Project.

Accordingly, the implementation mode, objectives and scope, time-frame arrangement of the project were discussed and the minutes of the meeting duly concurred by the ministry of planning, development and reforms were signed by ministry of commerce and EAD on Nov 24, 2015.

EAD Secretary expressed his government’s gratitude for the financial and technical support being provided by Chinese over the years, specially the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) projects.

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Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

**Top One Hundred Businessmen from ‪China‬ Fly in to ‪‎Lahore

‬**A 100 member delegation comprising of leading Chinese‬](Facebook) companies arrived in lahore on Tuesday 19th January 2016. The delegation was headed by Mr. Sha Zukang, Chairman Pak-China Friendship Association.

The purpose of the visit was to identify possible areas for collaboration in trade and investment in Pakistan.
The Punjab Board of Investment and Trade and the Lahore Chamber of Commerce and Industry jointly organized “Pakistan – China Business Opportunities Conference” at the Pearl Continental hotel Lahore on January 20th, 2016.

Chief Minister Punjab, Mian Muhammad Shahbaz Sharif, was the key note speaker at the conference. During his speech Honorable CM said, “Punjab is Pakistan’s economic heartland and presents tremendous opportunities for investment which, if fully utilized, will reap rich dividends for investors”.

The Council General of China, Excellency, Yu Boren said, “China Pakistan Economic Corridor, a truly magnificent project, testifies that both Pakistan and China want to play a major role in creating enormous economic opportunities for our people.”

President LCCI, Mr. Sheikh Muhammad Arshad in his remarks stressed upon the need for holding events like investment conference on reciprocal basis to pave the way for much-needed foreign investment in the country.

Mr. Sha Zukang in his speech said, “Pakistan is a brotherly country and his delegation is honored to be in Lahore and hopes that this visit will result in maximum benefits for both countries”.

The Conference was divided into two segments. First half included introductions, orientations and presentations while the second half focused on constructive business engagements with public sector and prominent businessmen from the private sector.

All Government Entities attended the event to highlight prospects and opportunities in Punjab and to facilitate any queries of the foreign and local businessmen.

In addition, PBIT also supervised B2B and G2B sessions focusing on different sectors including energy, mines, health, transport, textiles, agriculture, IT etc.

The delegation visited Islamabad before coming to Lahore, where they discussed business opportunities with the Federal Government. After the conference in Lahore, the delegation will also visit Karachi. This is another key initiative to reap the opportunities presented through China-Pakistan Economic Corridor - CPEC

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