Re: Change of Heart - PMLN supporting Drone Strikes?
If Pakistan army has these coordinates they can take them out themselves. After all OBL was living in Abbotabad and Hakeemullah also a km away from army Hq's of NWA.
Did army ever made claim that they knew of the coordinates? ;)
Re: Change of Heart - PMLN supporting Drone Strikes?
Anyhow, whatever anyone says or thinks; fact is that, due to drones killing Taliban terrorists, especially their leaders and planners, by doing that, drones saved thousands of innocent Pakistanis lives and properties worth billions of dollars, and that also Pakistan without spending a penny.
Terrorist attacks have incrementally increased over the past 10 years. So I dont know which lives have been saved.
Secondly, by allowing/asking US to launch attacks, our government is essentially saying that we are not capable of doing it. In that case, why not hand over the governance of the country to the americans as well?
Lets face it. Its a money game for our politicians. Otherwise, there is no logical reason to agree/allow such attacks on our soil. On the one hand, we cant stop boasting about nukes and missiles, and on the other hand, we lay belly up whenever drones come. Our rulers dont even have the guts to make a strong verbal statement.
Re: Change of Heart - PMLN supporting Drone Strikes?
Did army ever made claim that they knew of the coordinates? ;)
But you were saying above that the army is providing the Americans with the coordinates.
Re: Change of Heart - PMLN supporting Drone Strikes?
In short Pakistan's sovereignty is being violated by terrorists on one side and the drones on the other, and the country having the sixth biggest army and nukes can do nothing about it.
Re: Change of Heart - PMLN supporting Drone Strikes?
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Terrorist attacks have incrementally increased over the past 10 years. So I dont know which lives have been saved.
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Well, if drones had not killed many of their leadership, attacks would have been more and more Pakistanis would have died. You do not have to agree with me, but that is what I think is true.
Regardless, I love the news when I hear another Kharjee leader got killed by drones and reached hellfire to burn. :)
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Secondly, by allowing/asking US to launch attacks, our government is essentially saying that we are not capable of doing it. In that case, why not hand over the governance of the country to the americans as well?
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By allowing/asking US to launch drone attacks, Pakistan government is saying that Pakistan is not as capable and effective as drones attacks and its hell-fire missiles. That is fact too.
There is no need to make illogical statements like saying that if Pakistan is not as capable as Americans in killing Kharjee leadership then Pakistan should give government to USA.
Your statement is as illogical as saying that if Muslims are not capable of making heart disease medicine and need medicine made by Christians, then why not Muslims become Christian.
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Lets face it. Its a money game for our politicians. Otherwise, there is no logical reason to agree/allow such attacks on our soil. On the one hand, we cant stop boasting about nukes and missiles, and on the other hand, we lay belly up whenever drones come. Our rulers dont even have the guts to make a strong verbal statement.
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It may not be logical reason for you to agree/allow Americans to do drone attacks on our soil, but to me and for many, such is not only logical but good for the country too.
Having nukes and missiles does not mean Pakistan can do everything, neither killing Kharjee leadership effectively is to do with military strength. All is to do with having high technology striking capability that Pakistan do not have.
It is same with many countries, that is, where they are deficient, they take help of others. Japan and most European countries (UK, France, Germany, Turkey, and so on) have American bases because they do not have enough military strength to fend off their military foes (like USSR). It does not mean they should hand over their government to USA.
Saudi Arabia and UAE have American bases because they are scared of Iran, plus, they are also scared of their own people whom their rulers are ruling forcefully and illegally. But here also, one cannot say that because they are scared of their neighbouring country or their own people, thus taking help of USA to stay in power, they should handover their government to USA.
Well, most Arab countries could not even get oil out of ground without help of west, than it does not mean to give all their oil wells to west.
Re: Change of Heart - PMLN supporting Drone Strikes?
Because that is what Americans have you believe in it 
Re: Change of Heart - PMLN supporting Drone Strikes?
But you were saying above that the army is providing the Americans with the coordinates.
That is my assessment. I think that only people who have deep reaching foot on ground all over Pakistan (including FATA) is ISI and Pakistan army. So, when Americans are getting dead accurate coordinates then the one who is capable of giving them such accurate coordinates must be giving them, and that to me is Pakistan army (my guess).
Re: Change of Heart - PMLN supporting Drone Strikes?
You think that I have no brain and think what is told irrespective of it makes sense or not … like Zombies ? 
Re: Change of Heart - PMLN supporting Drone Strikes?
In short Pakistan's sovereignty is being violated by terrorists on one side and the drones on the other, and the country having the sixth biggest army and nukes can do nothing about it.
American drones are violating Pakistan sovereignty only if they are entering Pakistan without consent of Pakistan government (and I do not believe that).
As for Pakistan having sixth biggest army ... than Iraq with over a million men in arms (twice what Pakistan has), tanks 3 times more than Pakistan, Air force much powerful than Pakistan, and having much more sophisticated military hardware than Pakistan ... also had big armed forces. So, what that has to do with killing kharjees with the help of Americans?
As for nukes, what you mean ... should Pakistan use nukes in FATA to kill Kharjee terrorists?
Re: Change of Heart - PMLN supporting Drone Strikes?
What else you expect from a Gutless leader like Ganja sharif
Re: Change of Heart - PMLN supporting Drone Strikes?
Well, if drones had not killed many of their leadership, attacks would have been more and more Pakistanis would have died. You do not have to agree with me, but that is what I think is true.
So you are one of those who are too busy rejoicing the death of 1 terrorist in a drone strike and totally ignore the civilians killed alongside as collateral.
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There is no need to make illogical statements like saying that if Pakistan is not as capable as Americans in killing Kharjee leadership then Pakistan should give government to USA.
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Im sure you are aware of the concept of sovereignty and what it should mean to any free country. Currently, Pakistan's policy decisions are made by puppets singing american tunes. Pakistan's fiscal policies are dictated by IMF which is commandeered by the americans. Our elections have a big question mark against them, in that they were controlled by external hands. What semblance of sovereignty does Pakistan enjoy?
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It may not be logical reason for you to agree/allow Americans to do drone attacks on our soil, but to me and for many, such is not only logical but good for the country too.
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Not sure which party you follow, but if that is the case, and if our government is agreeing/allowing americans to drop bombs on our soil, then at least have the moral courage and guts to come out in the open and admit it to the public of Pakistan....the country they are supposedly representing, rather than hide behind curtains of fake condemnation and issuance of pre-recorded statements to appease public sentiment. The reason why they dont do that is because they know that the public at large is not in favor of them.
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Having nukes and missiles does not mean Pakistan can do everything, neither killing Kharjee leadership effectively is to do with military strength. All is to do with having high technology striking capability that Pakistan do not have.
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Funny how the same technology failed for the US in Iraq and Afghanistan, but makes us believe that it is working in Pakistan.
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It is same with many countries, that is, where they are deficient, they take help of others. Japan and most European countries (UK, France, Germany, Turkey, and so on) have American bases because they do not have enough military strength to fend off their military foes (like USSR). It does not mean they should hand over their government to USA.
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These countries have defense deals with the US.....and they have disclosed details of those deals to their public. Comparing that with drone strikes in Pakistan is silly.
Re: Change of Heart - PMLN supporting Drone Strikes?
You think that I have no brain and think what is told irrespective of it makes sense or not ... like Zombies ? :)
May be you can plot number of "terrorists killed", "drone strikes" vs "terrorism incidents/victims" in Pakistan month by month from 2001 - 2013 ... lets see how that looks like.
Re: Change of Heart - PMLN supporting Drone Strikes?
American drones are violating Pakistan sovereignty only if they are entering Pakistan without consent of Pakistan government (and I do not believe that).
As for Pakistan having sixth biggest army ... than Iraq with over a million men in arms (twice what Pakistan has), tanks 3 times more than Pakistan, Air force much powerful than Pakistan, and having much more sophisticated military hardware than Pakistan ... also had big armed forces. So, what that has to do with killing kharjees with the help of Americans?
As for nukes, what you mean ... should Pakistan use nukes in FATA to kill Kharjee terrorists?
How does Iraq even compare? oh wait.... Saleem logic, forgot about that.
Re: Change of Heart - PMLN supporting Drone Strikes?
So you are one of those who are too busy rejoicing the death of 1 terrorist in a drone strike and totally ignore the civilians killed alongside as collateral.
Whenever a terrorist’s leader gets killed by drone, I feel some revenge is taken for those ~50000 innocent Pakistanis these terrorists have killed. So, I remember the victims of these terrorists then feel happy that these victims got revenged and must be feeling satisfied other side of the life-line.
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Im sure you are aware of the concept of sovereignty and what it should mean to any free country. Currently, Pakistan's policy decisions are made by puppets singing american tunes. Pakistan's fiscal policies are dictated by IMF which is commandeered by the americans. Our elections have a big question mark against them, in that they were controlled by external hands. What semblance of sovereignty does Pakistan enjoy?
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Yes, I am aware of the concept of sovereignty. Seems you are not.
It all depends on violation of country’s writ or border without consent of government, though if there is consent of government, then writ or border is not violated and thus no violation of sovereignty happens … regardless of government tell to the public or not. For instance:
When French were killing Saudi terrorists in Kabba take-over episode, then French were not violating Saudi Sovereignty as all was happening with consent of Saudi government … and even though Saudis did not tell (or disclosed to) their public that French killed terrorists in Kabba, and all happened with consent of their Saudi Government, still no sovereignty got violated.
As for Pakistan getting dictated by IMF, than that happens when a country is poor and need IMF to survive. On the other hand, Pakistanis want to get dictated by IMF, else they would not have thrown Musharraf out who got Pakistan out of IMF dictations (in 2004 after 32 years under IMF dictations) and voted in PPP who straight away went to IMF in 2009 and then NS who has again gone to IMF this year (2013). PPP and PMLN represents people and also love IMF dollars as well as IMF dictations, that means people who love these parties, also love IMF dollars and IMF dictations.
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Not sure which party you follow, but if that is the case, and if our government is agreeing/allowing americans to drop bombs on our soil, then at least have the moral courage and guts to come out in the open and admit it to the public of Pakistan....the country they are supposedly representing, rather than hide behind curtains of fake condemnation and issuance of pre-recorded statements to appease public sentiment. The reason why they dont do that is because they know that the public at large is not in favor of them.
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What can one do if piglets have infected house garden and few kids of the house started loving those piglets? To get rid of piglets one have to call specialist piglets control people, but to appease kids one may say that piglets control people came in on their own.
On the other hand, the reason you gave that public at large is not in favour of drones and that is the reason government is quite, then you are wrong. It is not public at large … but it is public with pro-taliban mentality who do not like drones and they are very small in number, but are dangerous, as they have tendency to become physical, do not care to stay civilised or law abiding, and can also do suicide to kill their unwary opponents.
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Funny how the same technology failed for the US in Iraq and Afghanistan, but makes us believe that it is working in Pakistan.
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No one is saying that technology is so effective that it would give complete control of government on terrorists. Only brutality and indiscriminate operation could do that … that means, heavily bomb terrorist and civilians in infected areas without worrying about casualties. Such type of indiscriminate killing can be done only by kharjee animals like Taliban and Al-Quida, but neither America nor Pakistan would like to do that … be the country or area is in Iraq, Afghanistan or Pakistan.
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These countries have defense deals with the US.....and they have disclosed details of those deals to their public. Comparing that with drone strikes in Pakistan is silly.
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Pakistan also has various alliances with USA since early 1950s and those alliances are still valid. America has given more to Pakistan than any country, in terms of money, military hardware, civilian technology, scholarships, medical, educational and health related projects, free medicines, money for dams, and even contributed in agricultural revolution of 1960s with Mexican research ‘HYS’ for wheat and other agricultural goods ... and many more. So what?
On the other hand, Taliban or Afghanistan has given nothing to Pakistan except drugs, crimes, smuggling, kidnapping, killing, car-jacking, robberies, fitna and fasad, and all sort of pain imaginable … that we should cry for them. If America kills our enemy, enemy who are killing Pakistanis in 1000s, then why we should we bother or be upset? … Rather, we should be happy.
Re: Change of Heart - PMLN supporting Drone Strikes?
May be you can plot number of "terrorists killed", "drone strikes" vs "terrorism incidents/victims" in Pakistan month by month from 2001 - 2013 ... lets see how that looks like.
Why should I care to make such graph when Pakistan government has already came up with comparison figures ... declared in Senate that drones killed 1000s of terrorists and only 67 civilians accidentally got killed by drones.
Re: Change of Heart - PMLN supporting Drone Strikes?
Suicide bombing started after the failed takeover of Lal Masjid by taliban allied groups. It seems that we like to blame all and sundry on drones like a section of india likes to blame everything on ISI.
Re: Change of Heart - PMLN supporting Drone Strikes?
Did army ever made claim that they knew of the coordinates? ;)
Yes Mush has already accpeted that drones were fired after his approval. ISI which is also ghar ka bedi for many kharjee zombies is a key to providing exact coordinates.
Re: Change of Heart - PMLN supporting Drone Strikes?
^^^ You are right. Musharraf was not Munafiq so he admitted, and because of that many Kharjee lovers hate him.
As for ISI, again you are right (in my opinion), that is, many in ISI share bed with Kharjees but there are also people in ISI who play their role in sending Kharjees to hell.
Re: Change of Heart - PMLN supporting Drone Strikes?
I thought a mod openly pledged to take action against the unnecessary use of the word ‘khareeji’?
I even liked that comment thinking he was being serious and a little useful. 
Re: Change of Heart - PMLN supporting Drone Strikes?
Bhai, yea liberal use or name calling nahie hay. It is calling spade a spade. If I call Muslim a Muslim then what is so bad or offending? What do you want anyhow?
There are people who call whole of Pakistan ‘Kafiir’ … Pakistan government as ‘Kafir government’ … Pakistan judiciary as ‘Kafir judiciary’… Pakistan system as ‘Kafir system’ … Pakistan founding father Quaid-e-Azam as ‘Kafir’ … if they had only done that then I would have only called them Takfeeri … but these Kharjees do not end here. Apart of calling us Pakistanis ‘kafir’ they try their best to kill us Pakistanis too, even commit haram death (suicide) to kill us, be that us Pakistani is innocent civilian, politicians, bureaucrat, judge, policeman, or army men … and yea, they do not kill just by shooting or stabbing, but cutting the throat … so what could we call them other than Kharjees … hence we call them Kharjees. So, what?
And now you want us not to call them even 'Kharjees?
Why? Akhir kewn? … what should we call them then? Muslim … hell not, they are certainly not Muslim.
So, if not Kharjee then what should we call them, Kafir, Hindu, Sikh, or waht … but we do not want to be takfeeri, so what we call them, terrorists? But terrorists do not kill people after takfeer, rather they fight for a cause, cause to them, that is nothing to do with religion, so calling these scumbags terrorists would be unjust to terrorists, as these kharjees are worse than terrorists … so what we call them then … hmmm ‘Kharjees’ right?