Carl Ellis: "Islam filling void left by the church"

sigh Here are the usual disclaimers: please, kindly, do not argue in my thread. You will only give me great satisfaction in ignoring your comments, however intelligent they may otherwise be. Please do not think this is a ‘gloating’ session. Remember we have Christian Guppies as well, don’t make this out to be a we-are-better-than-you kinda thing. i am not posting this for that purpose. Only Allah determines an individual’s proximity to God.

Any non-fighting comments would be appreciated though. There is one error at least in the article, unfortunately, i think - Islam was not “founded” by Prophet Muhammad (may Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him). Anyways, besides that, article is a kinda interesting read.

Ellis: Islam filling void left by the church, Baptist Press
Rob Phillips, 20 August 2003

RIDGECREST, N.C. (BP) - Islam is rising in America, not because of its strength, but because of the retreat of the church, and if the religion founded by Muhammad 1,400 years ago continues to grow at its current rate, there will be more Muslims than Christians in every major U.S. city by 2020.

The observations were voiced by Islam expert Carl Ellis during the Aug. 15-17 National Conference on Islam cosponsored by LifeWay Christian Resources and the North American Mission Board’s interfaith evangelism team at LifeWay’s Ridgecrest (N.C.) Conference Center.

Ellis is co-founder of Project Joseph, an effort to educate the church about contemporary issues. An expert on Islam who travels around the world and speaks extensively on the subject, he was among the conference’s featured speakers.

Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the world, with 1.2 billion devotees, with Ellis reporting its growth at 2.75 percent per year. By some accounts, Muslims will overtake the current 1.8 billion Christians by 2020.

In America, where there are an estimated 7 million followers, Islam is growing at a 6 percent annual rate. White Americans are the fastest-growing segment of U.S. Islam, and 80-85 percent of all U.S. Muslims consider themselves former Christians. If present trends continue, every major U.S. city will be predominantly Muslim by 2020, Ellis warned.

“We must understand that there is a comprehensive plan in progress to Islamicize America and the West,” said Ellis, noting that since 1973 the Organization of Islamic Conference has spent about $105 billion in this effort, much of it funded by Middle East oil revenues.

If this troubles Christians, as it should, they need not look at Islam’s success, but at Christianity’s failure, Ellis said. “The church in America has reduced the Gospel of the Kingdom to peddling personal fire insurance. As I talk to Muslims who have left the church, I find that they don’t feel the church addresses their issues and needs - yet the Bible speaks to every one of them.”

Two axioms must guide Christian thinking about Islam, Ellis said. First, Islam is a system, while Muslims are people. Christians must challenge Islam and love Muslims. Second, there are three things a Muslim has no defense against - the prayers of the saints, the love of the saints and the wise application of the Word of God to their core issues.

“I find among Muslims a sincere desire to be right with God - especially among American converts,” Ellis said, noting that he has personally seen more than 1,800 leave Islam and place their trust in Christ, often at great risk to their lives since Islam teaches that leaving the religion is a capital offense.

Ellis described Islam as a “works-righteousness treadmill. There is no assurance of salvation - with the possible exception of dying in jihad.” While many Muslims ultimately embrace the Gospel because of its message of God’s grace, Ellis said the church has not adequately prepared believers to share that message. “We have neglected the teachings of the Bible. I suspect Islam is rising, not because of the strength they have, but because of the retreat of the church.”

Ellis said what’s happening in America - the decline of the church - is what already has happened in other parts of the world. "People used to say Islam would never take hold in the Holy Land because Christianity was too strong. But look at Jerusalem, where the Mosque of Omar, the third most holy place in Islam, sits atop the ruins of the temple where Jesus taught.

"People used to say Islam would never take hold in Antioch, where Jesus’ disciples were first called Christians. But today it’s in the grip of Islam.

“People used to say Islam would never take hold in Asia Minor, where the seven churches of Revelation were. But today this is Turkey, and Turkey is a Muslim nation. The same was said about North Africa, where Islam reigns today. Can anyone say America is safe as a Christian nation?”

Still, Ellis is hopeful. He said if Christians return to the Bible, embrace and engage Muslims in loving dialogue, the Gospel message will water the “dry well” of Islam. “At the end of the day, Isaiah 55:11 is still true – God’s Word will not return to Him void,” Ellis said. “I count on the Word of God to do its work, if we will do ours.”

Thank You very much for posting this! A very good article.
JazakAllah!

Interesting, though I don’t agree with the facts posted here, as from my personal experience the numbers have been exaggerated, probably by the author to shock his audience. First, there has been no concrete study on the demographics of Islam in America, and the studies that are happening show varying results which leads the reader to believe of their biasness!

For example, this article quotes Muslims in America around 7 million, which is true considering the claims of Muslim organizations such as CAIR. But more conservative studies on religions in America show the number around 2 million. Some point out that the true number is somewhere in the middle from 4-5 million and I agree. Secondly, when the first time I heard that the fastest growing race in America are white Americans & in particular white women, I was shocked myself. But it’s true!! Though the main reason is marriage and the preference of white skin among the immigrant Muslim in USA.

And I would really like to know the basis of the claim that 80-85% of Muslims in USA are former Christians. If someone ever comes across this figure again posted somewhere else, please let me know. From my observation to the mosques in my city it is close to 30-40%.

I posted similar views before in a thread in General & they should be taken with the grain of salat as they are my personal opinions based on my own observations.

Salt or Salat?:konfused:

Nadia:

The article is rife with Christnocentric innuendos but does present the fears of the Church quite well…

The best part of the whole post btw was:

I hope my reply didn’t warrant an ‘ignore’…:hehe:

Wait...it American trying to take over Islam or is Islam trying to take over America?

interesting piece of propaganda from the Christian standpoint. One thing, I'm positive that this particular "warning" can not be true. I'm certain his math must be wrong.

"If present trends continue, every major U.S. city will be predominantly Muslim by 2020, Ellis warned."

Stu

i think the guy flunked statistics class. or his definition of predominant means a few percent.

I do like the word "warned" though.

anyways..my hopes are that everyone just learns to coexist, US strength has been in its diversity and with ppl doing their own thing while being part of a larger society..

Re: Carl Ellis: "Islam filling void left by the church"

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
*sigh


RIDGECREST, N.C. (BP) - Islam is rising in America, not because of its strength, but because of the retreat of the church, and if the religion founded by Muhammad 1,400 years ago continues to grow at its current rate, there will be more Muslims than Christians in every major U.S. city by 2020.

[/QUOTE]

The same church claims over 700 conversions from islam every day in north america.

Great article.

On number of Muslims, World Almanac says 6.7million in the US. Thats also what the state dept fact sheet (found on google-will post URL) estimates.

Pretty fair figure I'd reckon.

<<. Only Allah determines an individual's proximity to God.

Actually, Allah doesn't determine that. Krishna does, and jesus might...so might Yahweh or the Amon-Re.

Stop speaking in absolutes where you haven't a clue about god...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
<<. Only Allah determines an individual's proximity to God.

Actually, Allah doesn't determine that. Krishna does, and jesus might...so might Yahweh or the Amon-Re.

Stop speaking in absolutes where you haven't a clue about god...
[/QUOTE]

haha .. jealousy at its climax.. cant see anything written positive about Islam.. why u have problem with believing mualims saying one God control the world.. u can believe Krishna as absolute master we dont have any problem.. muslims never believe there is more than one God and is creater of all human beings.. same God that Christians and jews also believe in.. Christinas only add Jesus (AS) as God's son. Open a thread and post something about Krishna rather than crying about what muslims believe..

Ahmadjee, Thank you for taking the time to present your thoughts in a non-argumentative manner. An absolute relief. Thank you, i enjoyed reading your reply :flower1: i too am wondering where he got the figure of “80-85 percent of all U.S. Muslims consider themselves former Christians”. i highly doubt that’s accurate. Regarding his estimate of 7 million Muslims in the US - i think the 2001 edition of the World Almanac gives a figure of 5.78 million. The 7 million, even for 2003, seems a bit exaggerated to me. It’s usually organizations such as CAIR that offer this 7 million figure; objectively speaking, one has to realize that CAIR is not in the most reliable position to give a balanced estimate of the number of Muslims residing in the US.

One aspect no one picked up on yet is Ellis’s statement, White Americans are the fastest-growing segment of U.S. Islam… i have always read that it’s African Americans, not Caucasian Americans, who form the fastest-growing segment of Muslim reverts.

So yeah - there exist quite a few irregularities in his article. i still find it an interesting read, though, primarily because it is from the Baptist Press, a source one may assume has less subjectivity on this issue than say the Muslim Chronicle.

Yes, i agree.. i have posted a few articles re: this issue of females being the majority of reverts to Islam. i think it’s true in the UK as well.

Lajawab, Definitely not. :flower1: As long as you do not indulge in insulting anyone, or making hurtful remarks, i will never ignore that type of reply :flower1:

Angelo Dundee, Thank you very much :flower1: :flower1: Appreciated.

:D I saw this article being torn apart on a blog somewhere earlier.. sorry, I forgot where otherwise I'd link it.

While this is a legitimate debate with practical implications, this article's presentation doesn't do well on the research statistics. Essentially this was written on a whim based on common knowledge and maybe a google or two. Its main motivator is the common lamentation amongst the Christian community (I mean the people that make Church into a community with cook outs and all, not believers as a whole) that there is a dangerous decline in the numbers of devout followers. Their initial fear was that technology and science was driving the populace to atheism, there's some validity to that. But now that the Islamic world has been so thrust into their lives due to the wars, they've found a new concern. It is true that people are "experimenting" with Islam and some actually revert, and many more whites are intrigued by it almost like a novelty at first.. but their conclusions are nutty. Really this is more of a rallying point. 'Start praying harder! [if that makes sense] Donate to your Church so we can spread the word faster than them! Etc..' Also smacks of a power-play within the greater American Christian community--for the modernizers, saviors of Christianity, to relegate all those they accuse of losing the followers to the sidelines for good. Bigger stadium Bible recital crowds for them = bigger paychecks for them.

Thanks for a thoughtful reply, much appreciated :flower1:

**

hmm. i never saw it that way.. Interesting thoughts, Spoon.
You have an ability to go beyond the superficial and articulate issues in a more detailed manner.

As for the research stats… i would have to agree with you, i don’t think they have been done that accurately.

lol didn’t realize this article was being torn apart on a blog. :smiley: i just found it while surfing, and um thought it would make an interesting thread for this Forum. :o