Well an interview can help a little in filtering out the fluff, but that still provides no sort of guarantee on whether the applicant will practice or not. I mean 6-8 years for a med program, 4-5 years for engineering, upto 6 years for MBA, a lot can change in so much time.
The best way I think to keep these trends in check to is to have periodic licensure exams. Specialist physicians in North America have to renew their board certifications every 5 years and even engineers have their licenses. This would atleast act as some sort of a filter.
hats off to those who take care of their homes n family AND are career women too!
but I can veryyy honestly say I don’t get any time to chatter on phone alone!!
I get a chance to sit on computer or phone mostly when I’m putting my doll to sleep!
may be I’m not educated enough…or may be i don’t have standards …or may be i’m just a loser staying at home n doing nothing good for society on the whole…but i’m sure i’m trying to do best for my children …all what i can!!!
i don’t understand why this type of debate even exists…its good to share experiences n exchanging view points …but its far from nice to generalise big time and coming up with comments like ‘desans suck’ (sorry PCG…couldn’t digest it!)
hiccup, i thought we were on a break.
chloe, i am not talking to you either.
do all women want to pick a fight here?..i come in peace. pls make love not war.
now ladies the reason guys dont want a career woman is when we come home and say we are tired… we dont want two hours of painful details of how tiring your day at work was. We dont care.
And guys getting a woman with a career in the same field as you is especially not a good idea. You cant even get away with the ‘oh honey i was working on a deadline’ excuse when you were out smoking and drinking with your friends.
I usually hand out this guide to all women I date. Its a must read for married ones.
Some people are stupid and judgemental. Don’t take it to heart what they say My mother is not stupid or uneducated or has no standards or no life, I am not stupid and uneducated and have no standard of quality for my life. And what PCG was referring to when she said desis suck, is when they use education purely for status and showing off purposes, when women demand docs/lawyers/etc for their husbands and then pressure them to quit work. And yes those people suck :halo:
Career women are stronger… atleast mentally. They prefer manly men. And they are competitive and proud so having a man less successful than her or mentally less stronger/sharp than her hurts her pride. If she does manage to find a stronger man than her, the man tries to overpower her. Which she again does not accept. And she does not like those she can overpower cz then they are not challenging enough for her. So, it is very difficult to find the balance.
You said it yourself. I highlighted it above. There is no unlucky or lucky guy here. It is a very very competitive world out there. You have to work your a$$ off to make a place for yourself. You only get what you work for. If a girl has worked hard enough to earn a place in a professional institution, she has every right over the unlucky person who did not work as hard as her.
I cannot imagine how most of the girls here have come to the conclusions they think are reality. It does not seem to me that any one of you have been educated to a professional level in Pakistan. You are all making your desicions base on the word of the mouth.
Hoping to get a better life partner after completing a professional degree, is not a motivation strong enough for a girl to study hard enough to pass the tough exams in these competitive environments. Those girls who come on reserved seats might have these notions. Girls with such thoughts are more worried about FINER things in life than to WASTE their time on studies. Just because of the population and a dearth of good professional institutions in Pakistan, the competition to get into the professional institutions is so tough that if you don’t give your 100% to your studies, you don’t even get a chance to get admission in decent non-professional careers.
Most of the girls, I know, are more committed to their professions compared to their male counterparts. All the female engineers from my session in the university (apart from one) are in their profession either inside the country or outside. As far as the female doctors are concerned, I think the number is not very encouraging.
However, educated women, if they stay at home or work, are essential for the proper development of a country. Even as a non-practicing lady doctor, she can take care of her children and her neighbourhood in a much better way than an ordinary women. My sister is a doctor and after her marriage and children, she stopped working for a while. When her children got a little older, she offered to help out in a local boarding school without any money. The concept became so popular in the school, that they offered her a full-time job which she refused. She is not an exception. I know a lot like her through her friends who are helping the community without doing proper jobs.
Constructive critism does not make you out-of-fashion!!
^ But then she could have done all that without having the medical degree. That is one less doctor serving the population - a population that is IN DIRE need of doctors.
Its one thing in the US economy, where there are plenty of doctors (even though in rural areas there is a shortage). If you have a handful of girls who are not serious about practicing and are doing it because mummy/daddy are making them, then its not THAT much of a big deal.
I’m sorry to say that in Pakistan this is not the case. First off a good number of doctors got into med school in Pakistan thru connections, and not on their own merit. Those doctors tend to be the ones rampant in malpractice, but of course they wont get caught because there is no infrastructure really to suit the crap out of the doctor that messes up your body. My family has had plenty of encounters with such doctors, as have I when I visit there.
Then on top of that, there aren’t that many medical schools - and on top of that many doctors are trying to leave the country.
So in Pakistan there is a massive shortage of decent doctors, and people like your sister (I’m sorry this is offensive) just took up a perfectly good seat that someone else could have taken up WHO WOULD HAVE actually practiced and delivered services to a population in NEED.
Its not about just looking at the individual life. When you’re talking about medicine, you need to be looking at the whole population’s needs. Sure, your sister wanted to settle down and take some time off to raise kids. But then she should have at least honored the privelege given to her to study medicine and actually taken up practice once her kids were older.
I hope for her sake, that her “helping out at the local boarding school” was providing free medical care. And I’m hoping they weren’t rich kids who were being boarded.
There is no "Career Women v. Stay-At-Home-Wives". This is not a zero sum question. Both categories of women have made a choice and work to make their lives a success. One is not better than the other.
Are there no hybrids? No middle ground? No compromise?
And lest we forget there are women who work out of need, especially the old mai that used to come clean after you in Pakistan. Others stay home out of choice, because they love it every minute of it. Why we make all discussions so focused on ourselves & the way we view the world. Not everyone in the world is like us or have the same circumstances.
Sorry for not making that clear. Yes, she was working in the boarding school as an OP doctor, not only for the students studying there but also for the teachers, support staff and their families. And she is now gone for higher studies along with her husband and kids. It is not wasted, I assure you.
There are plenty others who never practice their professions and go into the civil services. Technocrates have served the country much better than our bureaucrates.
i think its a waste of money and time for the girls who chose to study in professional colleges and not do anything later on. its a waste of the reserved seat for someone, especially in a country like pakistan, for someone ( man or woman) who can feed 10 mouths with that education.
on the other hand i dont like day cares and nannies. i'd rather take care of my kids on my own. but start working again once they are able to take care of themselves. for myself, i'd like a middle ground.. work part time or full time, depending on the hours but be home when my kids are home as well. * i hope that's possible*
Oh and my belief is that stay-at-home women are much more stronger physically and actually I would praise them for being so patient, caring and capable for always being available to cater to the demands of their kids including their husbands (yes, husbands are also kids as my mom used to say). It is not easy really I mean for always being there to fulfill the needs of others, keep everyone happy. Requires lots of sacrifices, alot of maturity. I would say the job of a stay-at-home wife is much more demanding than a single career woman. Sometimes I even wonder how they manage. I, for one, would fail.
^ I would not assume that career moms are not trying to fulfill the needs of the other family members. They can still cook and clean and instill good values in their children.
What surprises me is that when there are so many cases around you in your own environment of women balancing career and family well, then why all the doubts? So some women have screwed up - they chose the wrong job/wrong shifts. That’s a problem in their career choices, not in their abilities.
PCG, it would be nice if you read my post once again. Here:
Oh and my belief is that stay-at-home women are much more stronger physically and actually I would praise them for being so patient, caring and capable for always being available to cater to the demands of their kids including their husbands (yes, husbands are also kids as my mom used to say). It is not easy really I mean for always being there to fulfill the needs of others, keep everyone happy. Requires lots of sacrifices, alot of maturity. I would say the job of a stay-at-home wife is much more demanding than a single career woman. Sometimes I even wonder how they manage. I, for one, would fail.
I praise all the stay-at-home moms and wives.
no where in my post I have mentioned career moms or wives. I am comparing the stay-at-home wives/moms and single career women. I have heard people talking very highly of married career women with kids but in my own experience, I have noticed that they tend to be selfish. Either their family or their career suffers. Most do not realise but one of these suffers. Im yet to come across a woman successful at both. This is precisely the reason I avoided to mention married career women/moms.
Definitely, they "manage". Everyone can "manage" but "success" is different. Success is when you are good at what you do. Just being where you are and doing what you do is not "success". Yes, if I ever came across a woman who is "successful" at both, all my praises would be right there for her.
TheNewWannaBe, Exactly... anyone can manage juggling two three things. But, if you do a half as(s) job at it you endup screwing up everything. Whats the point of a woman with a Phd teaching other people's kids when her own kids turn out to be high school drop outs?
But, Im sure some women do manage and endup getting lucky due to contributions from the father and maybe the grand parents. But, its a risky gamble with odds heavily against it working out well in the end.
My mother is not stupid or uneducated or has no standards or no life, I am not stupid and uneducated and have no standard of quality for my life. And what PCG was referring to when she said desis suck, is when they use education purely for status and showing off purposes, when women demand docs/lawyers/etc for their husbands and then pressure them to quit work. And yes those people suck :halo:
