Buster,
The language and anology you use is of a sick person get some help.
[This message has been edited by Rani (edited March 31, 2000).]
Zman, are you suggesting that pope's bible is
god's revealation???? Get real!
Final Words:
To all the theologians on this board, peace be upon you. I have something to contribute to your “discussion” about the validity of other religions (other than Islam). Point is: they’re NOT. Philosophically, monotheistic religions agree to one fundamental truth about the attributes of God. (NOTE TO CHRISTIANS: If you agree with any one of these points, you cannot contradict yourself - you will invalidate all your premises - by also believing the antithesis of it). 1. You must agree that God is immortal. As soon as you say that God (as Jesus) DIED on the cross, you’ve violated the central idea in Judeo-Chrisian philosophy. A god cannot die. Period. As for coming back to life, this idea doesn’t exist due to clause #1 already established. 2. What do you suppose happens to all the people that lived before Christ’s time? (namely: Abraham, Moses, Noah, other prophets of God and their followers). By stating that one can only be saved as a condition of accepting Christ as a saviour, you’ve inadvertantly sent every one that existed before to Hell. Is that accurate? What are the Christian views on this question? 3. Once a new prophet comes onto the scene, we follow his word. Muhammad, may the blessings and peace of Allah be upon him, was the last of such messengers and by default he abrogates all the other monotheistic religions. The Prophet’s (peace be upon him) message is said to be like the sun in respect to it’s radiance and previous messages are like the light of the surrounding stars. “When the sun appears, the lights of the stars are hidden, and their lights are included in the light of the sun”. The other messages/lights exist but which light is the strongest? I hope I’ve cleared things up just a bit.
http://www.pak.org/gupshup/biggrin.gif
Irrefragable
*Islaam Is The ONLY Solution:)****And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers]. Noble Quran 3:85
[quote]
Originally posted by zman:
Agreed with you bubble buster on the Quotes from the Holy Quran, but, we still cant say or refer to a religious figurehead** as a phuddo / kafir. Let Allah( SWT) be the judge.** After all the pope follows one of the books revealed by Allah(SWT). **
This is a different age, you can quote everything from the Glorious Quran, but people will not even think a second and shunn it, especially our own muslims. Hindus, I am not worried about, you can expect it from them.
Regards**
[/quote]
zman: I have highlighted in bold what you stated. In case you didn't realize you have committed Kufr. First and foremost universal message of Islam has abrogated all religions including Judaism and Christianity. Beside that can you prove that today Injeel is in existance. Injeel was lost right after departure of Jesus (P). I am not sure that why so many Muslims are ignorant abotu their own faith and living with the same misconception. I would suggest you to look into the truth and let me know. You must ask Allah (SAW) for forgiveness. What Pope is following is a men made book. The current bible (New Testament) was fabricated 50 years to 90 years after Jesus (P). Two authors of bible Mark and Luke never met with Jesus. Fact is the gospel writers name have been used, but gospels were written by others.
On Types of Kufr
The following information was excerpted from the appendices to the English translation of TAFSIR IBN KATHIR
The Qur'an uses the word Kufr to denote people who cover up or hide realities. The Qu'ran uses this word to identify those who denied Allah's favors by not accepting His Dominion and Authority. Kufr thus is an antonym for Iman or disbelief in Allah and a Kafir is a non-believer. This type of Kufr is called AL-KUFR UL AKBAR or major kufr. There are many types of Al-Kufr ul Akbar:
- Kufrul-'Inaad:
Disbelief out of stubborness. This applies to someone who knows the truth and admits to knowing the truth and admits to knowing it with his tongue, but refuses to accept it and refrains from making a declaration. Allah(swt) says: Throw into Hell every stubborn disbeliever [Surah Qaaf (50), Ayah 24]
- Kufrul-Inkaar:
Disbelief out of denial. This applies to someone who denies with both heart and tongue.
Allah(swt) says: They recognize the favors of Allah, yet they deny them. Most of them are disbelievers. [Surah Nahl(16), Ayah 83]
- Kufrul-Kibr:
Disbelief out of arrogance and pride. The disbelief by the devils (Iblis) is an example of this type of Kufr.
- Kufrul-Juhood:
Disbelief out of rejection.This applies to someone who aknowledges the truth in his heart, but rejects it with his tongue. This types of kufr is applicable to those who calls themselves Muslims but who reject any necessary and accepted norms of Islam such as Salaat and Zakat.
Allah (swt) says: They denied them (OUR SIGNS) even though their hearts believed in them , out of spite and arrogance. [Surah Naml(27), Ayah 14]
- Kufrul-Nifaaq:
Disbelief out of hypocrisy.This applies to someone who pretends to be a believer but conceals his disbelief. Such a person is called a MUNAFIQ or hypocrite.
Allah( swt) says: Verily the hypocrites will be in the lowest depths of Hell. You will find no one to help them. [Surah An Nisaa (4), Ayah 145]
- Kufrul-Istihaal:
Disbelief out of trying to make HARAM into HALAL. This applies to someone who accepts as lawful (Halal) that which Allah has made unlawful (Haram) like alcohol or adultery.Only Allah(swt) has the prerogative to make things Halal and Haram and those who seek to interfere with His right are like rivals to Him and therefore fall outside the boundries of faith.
- Kufrul-Kurh:
Disbelief out of detesting any of Allah's(swt) commands. Allah(swt) says: Perdition (destruction) has been consigned to those who disbelieve and He will render their actions void. This is because they are averse to that which Allah has revealed so He has made their actions fruitless. [Surah Muhammed (47), Ayah 8-9]
- Kufrul-Istihzaha:
Disbelief due to mockery and derision.
Allah (swt) says: Say: Was it at Allah, His signs and His apostles that you were mocking? Make no excuses. You have disbelieved after you have believed. [Surah Taubah (9), ayah 65-66]
- Kufrul-I'raadh:
Disbelief due to avoidance. This applies to those who turn away and avoid the truth.
Allah(swt) says: And who is more unjust than he who is reminded of his Lord's signs but then turns away from them. Then he forgets what he has sent forward (for the Day of Judgement) [Surah Kahf(18), Ayah 57]
- Kufrul-Istibdaal:
Disbelief because of trying to substitute Allah's Laws. This could take the form of: (a) Rejection of Allah's law(Shariah) without denying it (b) Denial of Allah's law and therefore rejecting it, or (c) Substituting Allah's laws with man-made laws.
Allah (swt) says: Or have they partners with Allah who have instituted for them a religion which Allah has not allowed.
[Surah Shuraa(42), Ayah 8]
Allah(swt) says: Say not concerning that which your tongues put forth falsely (that) is lawful and this is forbidden so as to invent a lie against Allah. Verily, those who invent a lie against Allah will never prosper. [Surah Nahl (16), Ayah 116]
By the way in case you don't know there is NO clergy and evangalism in Islam. Fact is that it is not even cult of Christianity. As a Muslim I am not required and/or obligated to respect Pope the way NYA and you have been implying. What you think Muslim Ulema and scholars who simply did not attended Pope's crap were wrong. No, the reason is that Pope is nothing from Islamic point of view. There is only one religion and that is Islam.
By the way read Noble Quran Chapter 4 Surah An-Nisa and pay particular attention to verse/Ayaat 159 and 171. I would love to hear from you what you have to say? :)If you are Ahmadi, than disregard this.
Bubble Buster
"The true EVIL lies in IGNORANCE, not in suspicion."
[This message has been edited by Bubble Buster (edited March 31, 2000).]
zman:
Regarding your comments about the shunning the book and/or references from Noble Quran being ignored. Here is the truth. If a Muslim/Muslima mentioned Islam and Prophet Muhammed (SAW) to a disbeliever and that person dies without believeing in Islam. He/she will go to hell. But a believer will be rewarded for that.
Noble Quran 3:64!
003.064
YUSUFALI: Say: "O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).
PICKTHAL: Say: O People of the Scripture! Come to an agreement between us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we shall ascribe no partner unto Him, and that none of us shall take others for lords beside Allah. And if they turn away, then say: Bear witness that we are they who have surrendered (unto Him).
SHAKIR: Say: O followers of the Book! come to an equitable proposition between us and you that we shall not serve any but Allah and (that) we shall not associate aught with Him, and (that) some of us shall not take others for lords besides Allah; but if they turn back, then say: Bear witness that we are Muslims.
Noble Quran 16:125-126!
016.125
YUSUFALI: Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance.
PICKTHAL: Call unto the way of thy Lord with wisdom and fair exhortation, and reason with them in the better way. Lo! thy Lord is Best Aware of him who strayeth from His way, and He is Best Aware of those who go aright.
SHAKIR: Call to the way of your Lord with wisdom and goodly exhortation, and have disputations with them in the best manner; surely your Lord best knows those who go astray from His path, and He knows best those who follow the right way.
016.126
YUSUFALI: And if ye do catch them out, catch them out no worse than they catch you out: But if ye show patience, that is indeed the best (course) for those who are patient.
PICKTHAL: If ye punish, then punish with the like of that wherewith ye were afflicted. But if ye endure patiently, verily it is better for the patient.
SHAKIR: And if you take your turn, then retaliate with the like of that with which you were afflicted; but if you are patient, it will certainly be best for those who are patient.
Bubble Buster
"The true EVIL lies in IGNORANCE, not in suspicion."